Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[3rd rail land]

Does anyone think Boris will go further and cancel Xmas at the last possible moment like he did last year?

 

[DustyBin]

Valance seems awfully excited about getting "tweaked" versions of the vaccines into people arms.... Roll 'em up boys! (And girls, and others).

 

[MikeWM]

I believe you predicted this didn't you?

To be honest I've thought it inevitable for some time now. All you need to do is look at what's happening in comparable Western democracies; we may be lagging behind but there's a common direction of travel. Incidentally I notice Boris took the opportunity to break the ice regarding mandatory vaccinations....

My only surprise is that this didn't happen sooner. Vaccine passports have been hanging over us like the Sword of Damocles all year.

And apparently (I have better things to do than actually watch these things, like - well, literally anything) I note our esteemed leader said that this would be considered in the context of boosters. So don't think that 'mandatory vaccinations' will apply to 1 or 2 doses. It will be whatever number they determine 'necessary' - and note some countries are *already* talking about rolling out dose #4...

Anyhow, good to see that the vaccines were indeed the route to freedom.

 

[brad465]

Regardless of the clinical effectiveness of any of the measures, the government has no moral authority on the matter after the revelations of the last few days, plus of course their behaviour since basically Day 1 of the pandemic.

Not only that, but this has to be the first time where the primary purpose of measures being put in place is to save Johnson's own political skin, not for supposed public good.

 

[quantinghome]

There is also now serious evidence of deaths from vaccine related blood clots.

As the deaths appear to be impacting younger people who are at very little risk of dying from Covid, this seems to be a scandal being brushed under the carpet.

Certainly I had lost a close relative to such, I would be absolutely fuming.

I suspect in time this is going to do as much damage to the cause of vaccine takeup as the refusal to allow single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines on the NHS, before which there was not significant dissent from vaccines in the UK.

The AstraZeneca vaccine's unlucky few

Lisa Shaw was one of the tiny proportion of people adversely affected by the Covid jab. Her widower is now calling for better recognition

www.telegraph.co.uk

“In no other circumstances where so many people have lost their lives would that happen. They wouldn’t say 72 people sadly died in the Grenfell tower fire, but hundreds of people didn’t. We don’t forget those who were wounded in conflict or those who did not come home.”

These are the words of Gareth Eve, husband of Lisa Shaw, the 44 year-old BBC Radio Newcastle presenter who died in May of a rare brain hemorrhage, confirmed by a coroner in August to have been caused by rare complications from the Oxford AstraZeneca jab"

We've been over this very issue on this forum in the last few days. The risk of blood clots from the AZ vaccine has been very well publicised when cases first emerged. It's not been brushed under the carpet.

It's about relative risk. There is no zero risk position to take. We have a much higher chance of dying from Covid than from the (very rare) side effects of the vaccine.

Rejecting a vaccine because of rare side effects is like deciding to avoid the risk of a rail accident and instead making the journey by motorbike.

And of course the very rare blood clotting side effect doesn't affect the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

 

[Darandio]

Does anyone think Boris will go further and cancel Xmas at the last possible moment like he did last year?

Let him crack on and do it. I won't be taking any notice, Xmas is on here.

 

[Berliner]

I believe you predicted this didn't you?

To be honest I've thought it inevitable for some time now. All you need to do is look at what's happening in comparable Western democracies; we may be lagging behind but there's a common direction of travel. Incidentally I notice Boris took the opportunity to break the ice regarding mandatory vaccinations....

Over and over again and Ive been lambasted and belittled for it by many on here ever since. I do wonder if those people will now apologise and accept it was inevitable all along.

 

[quantinghome]

Regardless of the clinical effectiveness of any of the measures, the government has no moral authority on the matter after the revelations of the last few days, plus of course their behaviour since basically Day 1 of the pandemic.

Whatever our views on Plan B, we can all agree on that.

 

[adc82140]

Let him crack on and do it. I won't be taking any notice, Xmas is on here.

Same here. We won't be taking any notice of any further restrictions. I'd be happy to have my day in court and cite the Downing Street parties as defence.

 

[3rd rail land]

At least without furlough there are some limits to what restrictions Boris can implement.

 

[duncanp]

It will be interesting to see what the compliance and enforcement rates for all these new rules are.

 

[philosopher]

54.

Apparently they had received around 20 letters before the announcement about masks in shops and on transport a couple of weeks ago, so the timing of that tightening is in itself a bit suspect.

I wonder if the implementation of Plan B plus the Christmas party scandal will be enough to push it over the line. I imagine there are a lot very unhappy Tory MPs this evening!

 

[Wombat]

Rubbish.

How so?

 

[21C101]

The first of the public questions was concerning, someone in public asking why vaccines are not being made mandatory. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."

They were chosen first for a reason

 

[adc82140]

Has anyone else noticed that the infections in South Africa have levelled off?

 

[Mag_seven]

Has anyone else noticed that the infections in South Africa have levelled off?

shhhh - that would disrupt "project fear"

 

[Watershed]

It will be interesting to see what the compliance and enforcement rates for all these new rules are.

High, I imagine. They're all measures which, broadly speaking, apply to organisations rather than individuals. Very few won't comply, and those that do will be lambasted and/or "dealt with" - see what happened to the hold-out cinema in Swansea.

 

[Darandio]

Has anyone else noticed that the infections in South Africa have levelled off?

Yes and they are still maintaining illness from the variant seems to be mild. Other prominent people including those from within the WHO are stating the same. But it's the No.10 party innit.

How so?

The answer was in the part of the post you deleted.

 

[brad465]

The Tory rebellion on voting these measures in will be interesting: the highest so far during covid has been 78, I reckon if at least 100 rebel this time this will spell trouble for Johnson, which may happen given the CRG could well unite in opposition, and a number of other Tory MPs would want to show dissatisfaction at the purpose of this announcement.

 

[21C101]

We've been over this very issue on this forum in the last few days. The risk of blood clots from the AZ vaccine has been very well publicised when cases first emerged. It's not been brushed under the carpet.

It's about relative risk. There is no zero risk position to take. We have a much higher chance of dying from Covid than from the (very rare) side effects of the vaccine.

Rejecting a vaccine because of rare side effects is like deciding to avoid the risk of a rail accident and instead making the journey by motorbike.

And of course the very rare blood clotting side effect doesn't affect the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

It is not for people young enough to have a tiny chance of dying from the disease if they have not been vaccinated.

 

[big_rig]

High, I imagine. They're all measures which, broadly speaking, apply to organisations rather than individuals. Very few won't comply, and those that do will be lambasted and/or "dealt with" - see what happened to the hold-out cinema in Swansea.

Quite. Beyond visiting people at their house, there isn’t much one can do when things shut. I hope my work at least takes a flexible approach to who they let in the office. I will not be a happy camper facing another winter of indefinite working from home (isolation). They’ve been good before though.

 

[Ediswan]

Has anyone else noticed that the infections in South Africa have levelled off?

That would be promising. Got a reference ?

 

[CAF397]

From the FT

 

[Darandio]

From the FT

In a country with a poor vaccination rate and with fairly large percentage of people with poor overall immunity against any disease. Make no mistake that this decision is purely political with no scientific basis.

 

[adc82140]

That would be promising. Got a reference ?

South Africa COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

South Africa Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[DustyBin]

That would be promising. Got a reference ?

It would be if we were following the science as opposed to "the science"....

 

[Wombat]

The answer was in the part of the post you deleted.

No it wasn't. The only way that my comment can be dismissed as "rubbish" is if the booster does not make one less likely to become seriously ill or dead. The poster stated that his/her personal risk is "minute", and far all I know it is, but that has no relevance to the efficacy of the vaccine.

 

[quantinghome]

It is not for people young enough to have a tiny chance of dying from the disease if they have not been vaccinated.

Again, we've been through is:

In England:

Age 40-49: 2000 Covid deaths
Age 30-39: 700 Covid deaths
Age 20-29: 230 Covid deaths

By contrast total deaths due to AZ side effects (in all age groups) may be just about in double figures.

Nevertheless, due to the high relative risk of side effects in younger ages, under 40s have been offered alternative to the AZ vaccine since May: Under 40s to be offered alternative to AZ vaccine - BBC News

 

[Ediswan]

South Africa COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

South Africa Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Sorry, but you said that infections have levelled off, that shows a recent sharp rise in both 'Daily New Cases' and 'Active Cases'.

 

[adc82140]

Sorry, but you said that infections have levelled off, that shows a recent sharp rise in both 'Daily New Cases' and 'Active Cases'.

You need to look at the daily updates, not the graph. The graph is too small a scale. Additionally I said leveling off, not decreasing. There is certainly not the level of increase there was last week.