GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan

[infobleep]

Peak trains from Uckfield to London Bridge needed to be 10 coach just as peak trains from the Redhill corridor to London Victoria needed to be 12 coach. Both Uckfield and Reigate send off peak trains with 4 coaches into London. Neither could get away with high peak trains of 4 coaches going to their London terminals because it represented a poor use of track capacity.

I understand now. I thought it was referring to the whole day needing to be 10 cars.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2022 ==

Reigate trains go to Victoria. Uckfield trains go to London Bridge

Both are north of East Croydon and I'd have thought capacity issues applies to both.

 

[30907]

I don’t know, but I would guess next Monday, 17th, and that in parallel the Coastway local services from Brighton will be trimmed back to a Sunday frequency timetable.

Timetable has been rolled over for another week per RTT.

 

[Alex365Dash]

What does a Sunday service on the coastway look like?

1 x Portsmouth - Brighton every station
1x Portsmouth - Barnham (AP all stations to Horsham)
1x Southampton - Brighton semi fast?

A bit more like (on the current Sunday working timetable):

1tph Littlehampton - London Victoria via Hove (semi-fast from Worthing to Hove and from Burgess Hill onwards)
1tph Brighton - Hove shuttle service
1tph Portsmouth Harbour - Brighton (all stations except Hilsea)
1tph Bognor Regis - Littlehampton shuttle service (all stations)
1tph Portsmouth Harbour & Bognor Regis - London Victoria via Horsham (Portsmouth portion semi-fast from Fratton to Chichester, joins/splits with Bognor Regis portion at Barnham then all stations to Horsham and semi-fast to London via Redhill)
1tph Southampton Central - Brighton (semi-fast to Chichester then all stations onwards)

 

[dan5324]

Utterly pathetic. May as well convert the entire Brighton mainline into the much wanted m23 extension. Would be much more useful.

 

[JonathanH]

Utterly pathetic. May as well convert the entire Brighton mainline into the much wanted m23 extension. Would be much more useful.

The track formation isn't wide enough to be used for the M23 extension - you also have the much bigger issue of having nowhere to disperse all the traffic when it gets to Victoria.

The A27 is already dual carriageway around Brighton. The railway formation on the awkward bit between Arundel wouldn't really help as a basis for the new section of the A27 some desire.

 

[zwk500]

Utterly pathetic. May as well convert the entire Brighton mainline into the much wanted m23 extension. Would be much more useful.

There's already 3 lanes as far south as Hickstead on the A23, it doesn't really need the gap to the Henfield/Keymer turning filling in although it'd be nice to have. It's also completely irrelevant as a comparison to the temporary problem of getting enough drivers available.

 

[RichJF]

There's already 3 lanes as far south as Hickstead on the A23, it doesn't really need the gap to the Henfield/Keymer turning filling in although it'd be nice to have. It's also completely irrelevant as a comparison to the temporary problem of getting enough drivers available.

The A23 south of Hickstead isn't far short of motorway standard anyway these days. On a par with some of the European autoroutes as well!

 

[ungreat]

Utterly pathetic. May as well convert the entire Brighton mainline into the much wanted m23 extension. Would be much more useful.

Why?

 

[louis97]

Timetable has been rolled over for another week per RTT.

Its going on until the Haywards Heath block next month. A new revised timetable will start after that.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not sure where youve heard that about Thames link, look on RTT, next week has the Rainhams run through to St. Albans instead of Dartford, and that’s it, no different on other routes

I’ve heard that is the final TL version of plan for the foreseeable.

This was on Thameslink.com maybe reading too much into it hopefully then



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2022 ==

Its going on until the Haywards Heath block next month. A new revised timetable will start after that.

Oh yeah forgot about that so planners now tied up sorting that one out so no resources available to deal with the Victoria issue. Thing is WFH may well get dropped from 26th Jan so depends how quickly passengers return before the complaints come rolling in.

Why does it need a revised timetable the base plan is for SN main lines to run to Victoria already with the same destination pattern as they are currently running to LBG. So are the drivers diagrams not included as part of base plan and have to worked up every week?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Its going on until the Haywards Heath block next month. A new revised timetable will start after that.

My seven week guess wasn't far off, then

 

[louis97]

Why does it need a revised timetable the base plan is for SN main lines to run to Victoria already with the same destination pattern as they are currently running to LBG. So are the drivers diagrams not included as part of base plan and have to worked up every week?

Mainline services to Victoria will likely not be affected by the revised timetable, but some metro and Coastway services are likely to be.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Its going on until the Haywards Heath block next month.

What is planned and when exactly?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Mainline services to Victoria will likely not be affected by the revised timetable, but some metro and Coastway services are likely to be.

Seeing as cases are dropping rapidly and mood music is saying the restrictions won't be renewed on 26th Jan time to get back to what was planned in Dec 21 but I suspect there will be no rush to get back to that service now Treasury has swung the axe.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

What is planned and when exactly?

From 19th February to the 27th February all lines are blocked between Three Bridges and Preston Park/Lewes.

There are significant changes to the timetable as a result. With 2 trains an hour operated by Southern running to Brighton via Horsham and Littlehampton.

As the amended timetable has already been done, rewriting it at this stage is unfeasible.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

From 19th February to the 27th February all lines are blocked between Three Bridges and Preston Park/Lewes.

There are significant changes to the timetable as a result. With 2 trains an hour operated by Southern running to Brighton via Horsham and Littlehampton.

As the amended timetable has already been done, rewriting it at this stage is unfeasible.

Services will be reduced anyhow for the blockade so why would it need rewriting anyhow?

 

[infobleep]

I was hoping to catch an East Croydon to Victoria shuttle this evening. I managed to do so but not the one I planed for, due to delays.

Now I read they are continuing until the blockade, so I could have waited and travel on a shuttle service aanother week instead. My journey would have been faster if I'd not taken this route.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I was hoping to catch an East Croydon to Victoria shuttle this evening. I managed to do so but not the one I planed for, due to delays.

Now I read they are continuing until the blockade, so I could have waited and travel on a shuttle service aanother week instead. My journey would have been faster if I'd not taken this route.

Not sure if they will continue until the blockade, as there are plans to begin running some mainliners into Victoria instead of London Bridge

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Not sure if they will continue until the blockade, as there are plans to begin running some mainliners into Victoria instead of London Bridge

Yeah, the plan will continue to evolve, until the blockade.

 

[BJames]

I was hoping to catch an East Croydon to Victoria shuttle this evening. I managed to do so but not the one I planed for, due to delays.

Now I read they are continuing until the blockade, so I could have waited and travel on a shuttle service aanother week instead. My journey would have been faster if I'd not taken this route.

I took one operated by GatEx stock today. Across the 12 cars a reasonable number of people alighted but plenty of space in our carriage. Potentially quite a few people opting just to continue through to London Bridge/St Pancras depending on where they'd come from? We were on Uckfield line so had to change at ECR anyway but it was quite a pleasant service anyway. Repeated announcements that Streatham Common was alight from front 8 coaches only not 10 as the auto announcer was saying.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I took one operated by GatEx stock today. Across the 12 cars a reasonable number of people alighted but plenty of space in our carriage. Potentially quite a few people opting just to continue through to London Bridge/St Pancras depending on where they'd come from? We were on Uckfield line so had to change at ECR anyway but it was quite a pleasant service anyway. Repeated announcements that Streatham Common was alight from front 8 coaches only not 10 as the auto announcer was saying.

That's the problem with the onboard computers. It assumes its on the slow line, which is a 10 car platform, whereas the fast line on which its stopping is 8 car

 

[Craig1122]

Much as I'm not convinced Ockley should be should be a priority in the scheme of things, especially when Victoria was closed, it does raise a wider point. In the early franchising days operators were committed to a minimum service level and penalised when it wasn't provided.

In the current climate where the Dft call all the shots this level of contractual obligation seems to have gone by the board. The point of principal stands I think, it's now becoming commonplace for operators to withdraw a service completely or make first/last train times significantly later/earlier with little or no warning. This does little to promote public confidence in the railway. It also means people can have little confidence buying seasons if any compensation arrangements are only in place against the temporary timetable. I wonder if at some point we may see this tested in the courts? As people can buy a product based on the advertised service which is then withdrawn. Especially applicable to annual seasons as any refund won't be on a pro rata basis.

 

[Goldfish62]

I took one operated by GatEx stock today. Across the 12 cars a reasonable number of people alighted but plenty of space in our carriage. Potentially quite a few people opting just to continue through to London Bridge/St Pancras depending on where they'd come from? We were on Uckfield line so had to change at ECR anyway but it was quite a pleasant service anyway. Repeated announcements that Streatham Common was alight from front 8 coaches only not 10 as the auto announcer was saying.

I used the shuttle from Clapham Junction to East Croydon in the morning peak yesterday. It was a very busy 8 car train. A large number of passengers boarded at Clapham, which begs the question as to how they managed last week.

 

[Capvermell]

I used the shuttle from Clapham Junction to East Croydon in the morning peak yesterday. It was a very busy 8 car train. A large number of passengers boarded at Clapham, which begs the question as to how they managed last week.

Presumably they alighted from the diverted trains to London Victoria elsewhere such as at Sutton, Clapham Junction or London Bridge itself and then continued their journeys from there via Underground, Overground (via West Croydon) or South West Trains in to Waterloo. So they may have got to where there were going in the end but taking longer via more inconvenient routes.

When you don't have to properly compensate customers in terms of additional travel time on public transport or in terms of them having to travel by taxi instead at their own cost then why not slash the service in any old way that makes like easier and more profitable for you as the operator in terms of vastly lower running costs.................................

 

[Surreytraveller]

Presumably they alighted from the diverted trains to London Victoria elsewhere such as at Sutton, Clapham Junction or London Bridge itself and then continued their journeys from there via Underground, Overground (via West Croydon) or South West Trains in to Waterloo. So they may have got to where there were going in the end but taking longer via more inconvenient routes.

When you don't have to properly compensate customers in terms of additional travel time on public transport or in terms of them having to travel by taxi instead at their own cost then why not slash the service in any old way that makes like easier and more profitable for you as the operator in terms of vastly lower running costs.................................

The operator does not make a profit by slashing the service. It will be the Department for Transport that saves the money

 

[infobleep]

Presumably they alighted from the diverted trains to London Victoria elsewhere such as at Sutton, Clapham Junction or London Bridge itself and then continued their journeys from there via Underground, Overground (via West Croydon) or South West Trains in to Waterloo. So they may have got to where there were going in the end but taking longer via more inconvenient routes.

When you don't have to properly compensate customers in terms of additional travel time on public transport or in terms of them having to travel by taxi instead at their own cost then why not slash the service in any old way that makes like easier and more profitable for you as the operator in terms of vastly lower running costs.................................

What diverted London Victoria trains were running to Clapham Junction last week? I thought it was none.

 

[Capvermell]

The operator does not make a profit by slashing the service. It will be the Department for Transport that saves the money

And yet they seem to be almost wholly unaccountable for their actions other than that one came make a complain to Transport Focus who then seem to fail to obtain any form of redress or explanation whatsoever from the DfT or GoVia/Southern for the current quite unreasonable slashing of Southern train services in response to no more than 10% of drivers being off sick due to the Omicron variant.

 

[Surreytraveller]

What diverted London Victoria trains were running to Clapham Junction last week? I thought it was none.

It was none. Network Rail even took advantage of the lack of trains by taking an additional engineering possession at the end of last week

 

[30907]

Presumably they alighted from the diverted trains to London Victoria elsewhere such as at Sutton, Clapham Junction or London Bridge itself and then continued their journeys from there via Underground, Overground (via West Croydon) or South West Trains in to Waterloo. So they may have got to where there were going in the end but taking longer via more inconvenient routes.

Your general point is valid, but as they were going to East Croydon (or Streatham Common) they most likely changed at Wimbledon for Tramlink or went via Waterloo and London Bridge.

 

[Capvermell]

Your general point is valid, but as they were going to East Croydon (or Streatham Common) they most likely changed at Wimbledon for Tramlink or went via Waterloo and London Bridge.

Southern Diverted services from Horsham via Dorking or from Dorking Only to London Bridge don't go through East Croydon and nor dis the trains on this line when they terminated at London Victoria. Instead they travel via Leathehead, Ashtead and Epsom, Sutton, Ewell East, Carshalton, Hackbridge, Mitcham Junction and Mitcham Eastfields etc (and the last service back of the night only at Balham) and then run non stop to London Bridge just as they previously ran non stop to London Victoria.

So passengers on lines from Horsham to London via Dorking and Epsom were never going through Purley, East Croydon etc previously and nor are they travelling through those stations now. So they were never most likely to change at Wimbledon since Southern trains through Sutton have never ever called there and nor do they now during the near total blockade on services in to London Victoria. Only South Western trains from Dorking to London Waterloo call at Wimbledon but they don't call at East Croydon either.

This is because surprisingly enough Southern does actually run quite a few lines out of London Victoria that are not services involving the Brighton Main Line but customers who use the Brighton Main Line services and also many Southern managers in train planning quite frequently appear as though they seem to be unaware of the existence of those other Southern train lines, although I think most of them are well aware of Southern's East and West Coastway lines............