GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan

[Surreytraveller]

Once there is no need for 313s, there won't be a need for conductors so the operational side of that job is on borrowed time. (I assume that there are shortages of conductors as well as other traincrew leading to the reduced timetable so stands to reason that fewer 313s would be at work.)

The conductors work as OBSs if their train is a 377

 

[physics34]

That's been on the agenda for at least 4 years since the Thameslink programme introduction but kept getting rejected. It's being done as a result of the latest funding award which East Grinstead was included & is intended to future proof the station.

I got a letter from Network Rail as I live within 500m of the work site.

Its clearly a good thing to have extra facilities like lifts but the previous arrangements worked well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2022 ==

It would appear that the temporary timetable has resulted in lots of 313 diagrams being covered by 377s. Great news for passengers obviously (although if I was a conductor that enjoyed the operational side of the job, I’d be a bit miffid)

They are on borrowed time anyway with the 387s from GN on their way soon.... we think!

 

[Horizon22]

If computers were that clever, they would be programmed to realise that you are making the journey you are making because the railway cannot provide the service you have paid for

Although the retail / ticketing teams will be pretty far removed from the planning / operational teams. It could work, given enough notice and collaboration but I wouldn't hold my breathe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2022 ==

Its clearly a good thing to have extra facilities like lifts but the previous arrangements worked well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2022 ==


They are on borrowed time anyway with the 387s from GN on their way soon.... we think!

Barrow crossings are not a sustainable long-term method of crossing lines going into the future and don't exactly give people with wheelchairs and pushchairs independence when they are reliant on members of railway staff to allow them to cross.

 

[infobleep]

It is circumstance - Reigate desperate needs a 12 coach turn back facility to enable a proper length train at stations it calls at, even now off peak train can be standing only from Coulsdon South or Purley. (Peak, extra coaches added at Redhill from Gatwick)

Can Reigate accommodate 8 car trains? I comment was on 4 car ones running.

How long is the Stretham Common calls on fast East Croydon to Victoria services likely to remain? I may be making a journey on 2nd Feb and it would be a rather nice bonus to travel on a non-stop train from East Croydon to Stretham Common.

 

[Horizon22]

Can Reigate accommodate 8 car trains? I comment was on 4 car ones running.

How long is the Stretham Common calls on fast East Croydon to Victoria services likely to remain? I may be making a journey on 2nd Feb and it would be a rather nice bonus to travel on a non-stop train from East Croydon to Stretham Common.

I think an 8-car causes level crossing issues?

 

[Jan Mayen]

I think an 8-car causes level crossing issues?

The distance between the level crossing at Reigate and the crossover to head back to Redhill is less than eight coaches. I think years ago when they used Reigate to stable units, there were additional crossovers to allow trains to go from the sidings into platform 1.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Can Reigate accommodate 8 car trains? I comment was on 4 car ones running.

How long is the Stretham Common calls on fast East Croydon to Victoria services likely to remain? I may be making a journey on 2nd Feb and it would be a rather nice bonus to travel on a non-stop train from East Croydon to Stretham Common.

4 car max

 

[Minstral25]

I think an 8-car causes level crossing issues?

Yes 8-car has to overhang the Level Crossing to allow reversal to Redhill. Hence a 4 car service is the maximum allowed length

As far as I aware anything 5-car or longer requires A217 Level Crossing barriers to be down for reversal but someone with more knowledge might be able to confirm.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Yes 8-car has to overhang the Level Crossing to allow reversal to Redhill. Hence a 4 car service is the maximum allowed length

As far as I aware anything 5-car or longer requires A217 Level Crossing barriers to be down for reversal but someone with more knowledge might be able to confirm.

Easy solution, take out the condemned siding and extend the platform to either 5 or 6 car length.

 

[JonathanH]

Easy solution, take out the condemned siding and extend the platform to either 5 or 6 car length.

How does that help? It is the position of the crossover that is the main issue. Running 5 or 6 coach trains from Reigate isn't that much more helpful.

 

[Minstral25]

Easy solution, take out the condemned siding and extend the platform to either 5 or 6 car length.

Not really - signalling changes required, relocation of points, extra power supply for longer units - and in reality you need minimum of 8 or 10 car units to turn round, preferably 12. £51m was Network Rails quote Reigate station upgrade - Network Rail

We are however getting well away from the Thread topic, other than Reigate to Victoria is likely to be the last service to be reinstated by Southern.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not really - signalling changes required, relocation of points, extra power supply for longer units - and in reality you need minimum of 8 or 10 car units to turn round, preferably 12. £51m was Network Rails quote Reigate station upgrade - Network Rail

Ludicrous amount of money for one platform hopefully DofT will see fit to park this one until they come up with a sensible cost.

 

[Minstral25]

Ludicrous amount of money for one platform hopefully DofT will see fit to park this one until they come up with a sensible cost.

I think by "cancelling" the CARS scheme in its entirety because "the North" has taken all the cash (levelling up or down depends on your view) means it is pretty much dead

 

[Starmill]

I think by "cancelling" the CARS scheme in its entirety because "the North" has taken all the cash (levelling up or down depends on your view) means it is pretty much dead

To be fair there's really nothing revolutionary happening in "the North" in the upcoming control period either.

Or rather there's probably not, but we can't say for sure until we have an updated RNEP schedule (unless I've missed it?).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Or rather there's probably not, but we can't say for sure until we have an updated RNEP schedule (unless I've missed it?).

You've not missed it was last updated in Autumn 2019 and Ministers have been saying it will be updated soon for as long. With IRP now released that ought to now allow it to be refreshed and updated in respect of the schemes covered by that even if much of the rest of it is potentially parked now until we get some clarity on passenger levels.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Meanwhile, back on GTR cancellations from Victoria, does anyone know, or would care to speculate, on when stations South of South Croydon will get their Monday to Friday Southern service to Victoria back?

 

[Bishopstone]

Meanwhile, back on GTR cancellations from Victoria, does anyone know, or would care to speculate, on when stations South of South Croydon will get their Monday to Friday Southern service to Victoria back?

I don’t know, but I would guess next Monday, 17th, and that in parallel the Coastway local services from Brighton will be trimmed back to a Sunday frequency timetable.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I don’t know, but I would guess next Monday, 17th, and that in parallel the Coastway local services from Brighton will be trimmed back to a Sunday frequency timetable.

Be longer than that. Seven weeks is what I've heard

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Be longer than that. Seven weeks is what I've heard

Won't be 7 weeks, a bit less than that.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Won't be 7 weeks, a bit less than that.

We'll see! If its less than seven weeks, it will have to go hand in hand with a much reduced service. It guaranteed won't be next week!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

We'll see! If its less than seven weeks, it will have to go hand in hand with a much reduced service. It guaranteed won't be next week!

Its a tad inconvenient but at least its cross platform off the main line and all run bar one stopper cancelled so far today is certainly a good start.

Thameslink also holding up very well but inference is they will reduce further next week despite the peak having been reached in L&SE.

 

[pompeyfan]

What does a Sunday service on the coastway look like?

1 x Portsmouth - Brighton every station
1x Portsmouth - Barnham (AP all stations to Horsham)
1x Southampton - Brighton semi fast?

 

[OFFDN]

Its a tad inconvenient but at least its cross platform off the main line and all run bar one stopper cancelled so far today is certainly a good start.

Thameslink also holding up very well but inference is they will reduce further next week despite the peak having been reached in L&SE.

Not sure where youve heard that about Thames link, look on RTT, next week has the Rainhams run through to St. Albans instead of Dartford, and that’s it, no different on other routes

I’ve heard that is the final TL version of plan for the foreseeable.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Be longer than that. Seven weeks is what I've heard

Seven weeks? That's two variants away!

 

[Kite159]

What does a Sunday service on the coastway look like?

1 x Portsmouth - Brighton every station
1x Portsmouth - Barnham (AP all stations to Horsham)
1x Southampton - Brighton semi fast?

Southampton - Brighton is only semifast between Havant & Barnham, after Barnham it calls at every station.

Bus company will be loving the extra custom.

 

[infobleep]

Not really - signalling changes required, relocation of points, extra power supply for longer units - and in reality you need minimum of 8 or 10 car units to turn round, preferably 12. £51m was Network Rails quote Reigate station upgrade - Network Rail

We are however getting well away from the Thread topic, other than Reigate to Victoria is likely to be the last service to be reinstated by Southern.

My comment on Reigate services started from the fact @JonathanH said trains needed to be 10 cars north of East Croydon and yet here are some that aren't. I appreciate why its the case but the case it is and thus another line could be less than 10 cars north of East Croydon if there was a reason why they need to be

What was the alternative? The trains needed to be 10 car north of East Croydon and splitting / dividing at Oxted wasn't an option. With no gangway connections the platforms had to be extended.

Looks like a waste of money now but no-one expected what happened in March 2020.

 

[JonathanH]

Bus company will be loving the extra custom.

Does that follow? The buses along the south coast are only competitive over short distances because even if the trains call all stations the train will still be quicker.

 

[Surreytraveller]

My comment on Reigate services started from the fact @JonathanH said trains needed to be 10 cars north of East Croydon and yet here are some that aren't. I appreciate why its the case but the case it is and thus another line could be less than 10 cars north of East Croydon if there was a reason why they need to be

Reigate trains go to Victoria. Uckfield trains go to London Bridge

 

[JonathanH]

My comment on Reigate services started from the fact @JonathanH said trains needed to be 10 cars north of East Croydon and yet here are some that aren't. I appreciate why its the case but the case it is and thus another line could be less than 10 cars north of East Croydon if there was a reason why they need to be

Peak trains from Uckfield to London Bridge needed to be 10 coach just as peak trains from the Redhill corridor to London Victoria needed to be 12 coach. Both Uckfield and Reigate send off peak trains with 4 coaches into London. Neither could get away with high peak trains of 4 coaches going to their London terminals because it represented a poor use of track capacity.

 

[Kite159]

Does that follow? The buses along the south coast are only competitive over short distances because even if the trains call all stations the train will still be quicker.

If the train service becomes unrealible with hour gaps between trains at certain stations with the trains which are running being full & standing then the bus becomes more attractive.

Might take longer than the train but better frequency and has the benefit of dropping passengers off where they want to be