Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Shauny]

That sounds like a recipe for confusion. Why?

I am signed in to two different accounts on both devices, I should just really go onto one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2022 ==

That's nothing compared to some of the cuts they made.
15 years ago, Knutsford had;
The 300 town circular, which went well into the night (half-hourly)
The 27 to Macclesfield that served Astra Zeneca and had a Sunday service that extended into Tatton Park (hourly Mon-Sat)
The 188 to Altrincham via High Leigh (hourly, then half-hourly during a brief period in the mid 10's)
The 189 Northwich to Altrincham (2 hourly)
A bus to Warrington on Tuesdays and Fridays
And everything was run by several operators

Now it's;
The 47 to Warrington (2 buses per weekday in each direction)
The 88 Macclesfield to Altrincham (whatever the timetable dictates the frequency to be today)
The 89 to Northwich (no buses after lunchtime)
The 188 schools service (which the general public can't travel on, so why's it even here?)
And all the services of any use are run by our friend Julian Peddle and his excellent d&g bus.

Also, what time did the 300 run to? (assuming it was Mon-Sat)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Also, what time did the 300 run to? (assuming it was Mon-Sat)

The last loop used to leave the bus station at 22:15 IIRC. Now you're stuck after 7pm.

 

[Shauny]

The last loop used to leave the bus station at 22:15 IIRC. Now you're stuck after 7pm.

Oh wow, I never knew it ran that late. I remember when Macclesfield had buses running late into the night. Those being 5,6,9,10A,14,38,130

Now it’s just the 38, and if you call 20:15 late, then the 10. Depends on how many drinks you’ve had though.

 

[YuiLongton]

Looks like McBoydell's Coaches have won the tender for the 88. But only running between Macclesfield & Knutsford. Also noticed that this skips out Over Peover.

Also noticed that this is named route 87. So does this mean that the 88 will still remain in existence between Knutsford & Altrincham only?

I must say though, the new timetable looks much improved on the current service, as most passengers (thats if there are any) go between Macclesfield & Knutsford anyway.

I hope that this local coach company, which are based in Lichfield I beileve, do a better job than D&G. I'm not sure what buses will be used though, hopefully not ex-london E200's.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Looks like McBoydell's Coaches have won the tender for the 88.

Literally who? I can't find them anywhere on the internet. And is coming from Lichfield (Over an hour and a half away from Knutsford, in a car, on a good day) a good idea? At least the timetable is improved, but I don't know about this.

 

[GusB]

Looks like McBoydell's Coaches have won the tender for the 88. But only running between Macclesfield & Knutsford. Also noticed that this skips out Over Peover.

Also noticed that this is named route 87. So does this mean that the 88 will still remain in existence between Knutsford & Altrincham only?

I must say though, the new timetable looks much improved on the current service, as most passengers (thats if there are any) go between Macclesfield & Knutsford anyway.

I hope that this local coach company, which are based in Lichfield I beileve, do a better job than D&G. I'm not sure what buses will be used though, hopefully not ex-london E200's.

What is the document that you've attached? It won't open for me.

 

[Shauny]

Looks like McBoydell's Coaches have won the tender for the 88. But only running between Macclesfield & Knutsford. Also noticed that this skips out Over Peover.

Also noticed that this is named route 87. So does this mean that the 88 will still remain in existence between Knutsford & Altrincham only?

I must say though, the new timetable looks much improved on the current service, as most passengers (thats if there are any) go between Macclesfield & Knutsford anyway.

I hope that this local coach company, which are based in Lichfield I beileve, do a better job than D&G. I'm not sure what buses will be used though, hopefully not ex-london E200's.

I’ve never heard of McBoydell’s Coaches? Are you sure this is legitimate?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I’ve never heard of McBoydell’s Coaches? Are you sure this is legitimate?

I'm with you on this, a google search brings up nothing on them. It's a bit suspicious, it's like nobody has ever heard of them.

 

[Shauny]

Looks like McBoydell's Coaches have won the tender for the 88. But only running between Macclesfield & Knutsford. Also noticed that this skips out Over Peover.

Also noticed that this is named route 87. So does this mean that the 88 will still remain in existence between Knutsford & Altrincham only?

I must say though, the new timetable looks much improved on the current service, as most passengers (thats if there are any) go between Macclesfield & Knutsford anyway.

I hope that this local coach company, which are based in Lichfield I beileve, do a better job than D&G. I'm not sure what buses will be used though, hopefully not ex-london E200's.

Also, I wouldn’t call Lichfield local.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2022 ==

I highly doubt a coach firm in Lichfield with no website, would look to win tenders in East Cheshire.

 

[GusB]

Unless @YuiLongton can come up with a source for this bit of news, I would suggest that a small amount of sodium chloride is necessary. I've also drawn a blank when searching for McBoydells.

This should serve as a reminder to everyone to post references to sources of information so that we know it's genuine and not just a case of "some bloke down the pub said...".

 

[LOL The Irony]

Also, I wouldn’t call Lichfield local.

Yep, it's miles away from Cheshire, especially the north eastern corner of the county.

I highly doubt a coach firm in Lichfield with no website, would look to win tenders in East Cheshire.

I wouldn't fully doubt a company from Lichfield looking to win tenders in Cheshire, but one with no website and who don't put their number on the timetable is incredibly suspicious. I guess we'll see whether it's true or not when the NW Traffic Commissioner releases their weekly update on Wednesday.

 

[Shauny]

Yep, it's miles away from Cheshire, especially the north eastern corner of the county.

I wouldn't fully doubt a company from Lichfield looking to win tenders in Cheshire, but one with no website and who don't put their number on the timetable is incredibly suspicious. I guess we'll see whether it's true or not when the NW Traffic Commissioner releases their weekly update on Wednesday.

Well true, but it is a bit far out isn’t it?

 

[daodao]

McBoydell's Coaches

Surely this is a spoof - it's an anagram of Del Boy

 

[LOL The Irony]

Well true, but it is a bit far out isn’t it?

It is, but Howards Travel did use to operate the 27, as it was known. It's not impossible that someone from that far away would operate it, if it was lucrative enough. However, you do have a point.

On another note, would the council split the 88 back up into the 88 and 27 and would doing so be part of adhering to the GMCAZ? I Personally think it should as it'll allow the 88 to go back to hourly and the 188 can then be operated as a part of the 89. However, I doubt Cheshire East will ever have the ability or will to pull something like this off.

 

[markymark2000]

It is, but Howards Travel did use to operate the 27, as it was known. It's not impossible that someone from that far away would operate it, if it was lucrative enough. However, you do have a point.

On another note, would the council split the 88 back up into the 88 and 27 and would doing so be part of adhering to the GMCAZ? I Personally think it should as it'll allow the 88 to go back to hourly and the 188 can then be operated as a part of the 89. However, I doubt Cheshire East will ever have the ability or will to pull something like this off.

I hope they do but I doubt it just because of the PVR. With D&Gs padding, the route takes 70 minutes end to end and so the 88 standalone would need 3 buses (with each bus having 30 minutes layover). Macc - Knutsford and Knutsford to Northwich would be another 2 buses (even if interworked) so the cost is literally, pay for 4 Euro 6 buses or pay for 3 of them plus 2 other buses.

 

[LOL The Irony]

With D&Gs padding, the route takes 70 minutes end to end and so the 88 standalone would need 3 buses (with each bus having 30 minutes layover).

GHA (when their drivers didn't spend 10 minutes having a mothers meeting at Knutsford) could do it in 55, requiring a PVR of just 2. What it needs is a local authority who have a pair and aren't afraid to give their operators a good going over.

Macc - Knutsford and Knutsford to Northwich would be another 2 buses (even if interworked) so the cost is literally, pay for 4 Euro 6 buses or pay for 3 of them plus 2 other buses.

Northwich - Knutsford can easily be done in 35 minutes, throw in a reborn 300 that serves the northern estates and the Northwich can be every 1.5-2 hours. Macc should be hourly as well, but that would require a bit of a layover in Knutsford. The easiest route to fix would be the 47, which can be achieved by simply making it run more often and on Saturdays.

 

[Shauny]

Personally, I think there should be a Macclesfield-Knutsford-Northwich (Two Hourly)
Macclesfield-Knutsford-Altrincham (Two Hourly)

Meaning that Macclesfield will get an hourly service to Knutsford, Knutsford getting an two hourly service to Northwich, and an two-hourly service to Altrincham

Not many people board the 88 after Knutsford, so I think Cheshire East Council will make more money this way. Plus the workers around the airport who travel to Altrincham have the hourly 288 and then my proposed two hourly 88.

Also, this could require one less bus. They could then use this leftover bus for a revived 300 service. Or even an 88A.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2022 ==

Also out of curiosity, what is everyone’s favourite bus route in Cheshire? Mine used to be the 99 Macclesfield-Congleton, but now that’s gone, it’s 84 Crewe-Chester, with 130 Macclesfield-Wythenshawe and 88 Macclesfield-Altrincham a close second.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Personally, I think there should be a Macclesfield-Knutsford-Northwich (Two Hourly)
Macclesfield-Knutsford-Altrincham (Two Hourly)

Knutsford to Wilmslow and Wilmslow to Altrincham needs to be hourly. Part of Waters getting their planning permission was the reason the 88 became half hourly under GHA.

Also, this could require one less bus. They could then use this leftover bus for a revived 300 service.

I'd make a revived 300 part of the 89 to Northwich.

Or even an 88A.

Not that again. No, no, no! This single service drives most of my dislike for d&g.

 

[Shauny]

Knutsford to Wilmslow and Wilmslow to Altrincham needs to be hourly. Part of Waters getting their planning permission was the reason the 88 became half hourly under GHA.

I'd make a revived 300 part of the 89 to Northwich.

Not that again. No, no, no! This single service drives most of my dislike for d&g.

I didn’t find the 88A too bad though personally. I used it occasionally as well.

 

[markymark2000]

GHA (when their drivers didn't spend 10 minutes having a mothers meeting at Knutsford) could do it in 55, requiring a PVR of just 2. What it needs is a local authority who have a pair and aren't afraid to give their operators a good going over.

Cheshire East Council let D&G get away with murder because there is no alternative. Both of them know that and D&G exploit it. Very few other firms in Cheshire East who want work.

Northwich - Knutsford can easily be done in 35 minutes, throw in a reborn 300 that serves the northern estates and the Northwich can be every 1.5-2 hours. Macc should be hourly as well, but that would require a bit of a layover in Knutsford. The easiest route to fix would be the 47, which can be achieved by simply making it run more often and on Saturdays.

For 1 extra bus, it could all be done. 88/300 3 buses (hourly interworked), 27 1 bus, 89 1 bus. All sorted. But CEC don't like spending money. It was an extremely surprising move for them to extend the 130 to Wythenshawe costing them extra money.

Not many people board the 88 after Knutsford, so I think CEC will make more money this way. Plus the workers around the airport who travel to Altrincham have the hourly 288 and then my proposed two hourly 88.

That is because D&G have killed the demand with forcing everyone to sit around at every timing point because of D&Gs downright stupid timetables.

Also, this could require one less bus. They could then use this leftover bus for a revived 300 service. Or even an 88A.

Macc to Altrincham via Knutsford is a non starter right there. Waste of time. Why would anyone with half a braincell waste an 30 minutes plodding around Knutsford when you can get the 130 to Wilmslow and change to the 88.

Not that again. No, no, no! This single service drives most of my dislike for d&g.

88A was decent to be fair. Apparently it was breaking even and only cut because of the losses they accumulated on the original 130 (the one which was competing with Arriva and then kept getting changed every other week). They made savings to try and recoup the money.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I didn’t find the 88A too bad though personally. My other half lives on Colshaw Farm and she used to use the 88A to visit her mother in Boothfields. I used it occasionally as well.

88A was decent to be fair. Apparently it was breaking even and only cut because of the losses they accumulated on the original 130 (the one which was competing with Arriva and then kept getting changed every other week). They made savings to try and recoup the money.

That's why I don't like it. It represents the thing that nuked buses in these necks of the woods.

Cheshire East Council let D&G get away with murder because there is no alternative. Both of them know that and D&G exploit it. Very few other firms in Cheshire East who want work.

Yeah that's not much you can do in that situation except watch d&g like a hawk and send all of their misdeeds to the traffic commissioner. That or transport needs new leadership to nip this all in the bud.

For 1 extra bus, it could all be done. 88/300 3 buses (hourly interworked), 27 1 bus, 89 1 bus. All sorted. But CEC don't like spending money. It was an extremely surprising move for them to extend the 130 to Wythenshawe costing them extra money.

For no extra buses, you could interwork the 89 and 300. The 130 going to wythenshawe makes sense when you remember that they get TfGM money for it.

That is because D&G have killed the demand with forcing everyone to sit around at every timing point because of D&Gs downright stupid timetables.

As well as the early morning and mid afternoon timetable because they interwork the 188 with the 88 instead of the 89. But these timings really need sorting out.

88A was decent to be fair. Apparently it was breaking even and only cut because of the losses they accumulated on the original 130 (the one which was competing with Arriva and then kept getting changed every other week). They made savings to try and recoup the money.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have an extreme dislike of d&g. I actually want them to go the way of GHA, however considering who owns them, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Shauny]

Does anyone actually use the 88 to travel to Altrincham fom Macclesfield? I mean, I don't think many people who use public transport would commute there from Macclesfield. And if anyone did, wouldn't they just use the 130 and connect at Bank Square?

 

[daodao]

Does anyone actually use the 88 to travel to Altrincham from Macclesfield? I mean, I don't think many people who use public transport would commute there from Macclesfield. And if anyone did, wouldn't they just use the 130 and connect at Bank Square?

I live near Altrincham and work in Macclesfield (now just partly) and used to live in Macclesfield, close to the 130 bus route. I did once travel to Altrincham from Macclesfield by bus, changing at Bank Square, on a Saturday in 2005 when my car was being repaired after an accident. Arriva ran both services then and the 130 was every 30 minutes, so the connections were OK, and it was possible to use a NW day rider ticket. Nowadays, the D&G routes 130 and 88 do not connect well in Wilmslow, so it would be impractical to commute between Macclesfield and Altrincham by bus.

 

[Shauny]

There used to be a bus in the 1980's, early 1990's that used to run between Macclesfield and Altrincham via Prestbury & Wilmslow, this was named E17.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2022 ==

There used to be a bus in the 1980's, early 1990's that used to run between Macclesfield and Altrincham via Prestbury & Wilmslow, this was named E17.

It looks like a mix of today's 19, 130 & 88. Looks quite a fun route to do, not going to lie.

Plus Altrincham in just shy of an hour, not too bad. Would never happen now.

 

[daodao]

There used to be a bus in the 1980's, early 1990's that used to run between Macclesfield and Altrincham via Prestbury & Wilmslow, this was named E17.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2022 ==


It looks like a mix of today's 19, 130 & 88. Looks quite a fun route to do, not going to lie.

Plus Altrincham in just shy of an hour, not too bad. Would never happen now.

This was formerly North West Road Car Company route 97, which used to run on Sundays as well. The section between Altrincham and Wilmslow is similar to part of current route 88, which now runs hourly (2 hourly on Sundays). However, the route between Wilmslow and Macclesfield is not the same as current routes 19 (which existed 50+ years ago as a slightly different route 19) or 130 (formerly routes 29/30).

 

[markymark2000]

Yeah that's not much you can do in that situation except watch d&g like a hawk and send all of their misdeeds to the traffic commissioner. That or transport needs new leadership to nip this all in the bud.

It's not in the Traffic Commissioners remit I don't think. It's a contract negotiation between D&G an Cheshire East and the traffic commissioner does officially state that sufficient time should be given so that 95% of services run in the 6 minute 'on time' window (1 early to 5 late) so D&G could argue that they are ensuring that the services run on time. The negative effects of that are not recognised by either party.

For no extra buses, you could interwork the 89 and 300. The 130 going to wythenshawe makes sense when you remember that they get TfGM money for it.

The 88 in the above instance, based off D&G timetables would give a 30 minute layover in Knutsford. Might as well make use of that to do the 300 rather than the 89 as then this would permit the 89 to run more regularly or interwork the 27 and 89.

130 to Wythenshawe makes sense but it's a surprise Cheshire East did it given they are very fine on money. What TFGM fund are they getting? I didn't know that one.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have an extreme dislike of d&g. I actually want them to go the way of GHA, however considering who owns them, I'm not holding my breath.

Harsh but it's a shared opinion.

Does anyone actually use the 88 to travel to Altrincham fom Macclesfield? I mean, I don't think many people who use public transport would commute there from Macclesfield. And if anyone did, wouldn't they just use the 130 and connect at Bank Square?

I doubt it but if anyone was to,

 

[Deerfold]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I have an extreme dislike of d&g. I actually want them to go the way of GHA, however considering who owns them, I'm not holding my breath.

If they did, who do you think would take over their routes?

 

[markymark2000]

If they did, who do you think would take over their routes?

I am happy to speculate but I think it we go too far into this, it may need another thread.

 

[LOL The Irony]

It's not in the Traffic Commissioners remit I don't think. It's a contract negotiation between D&G an Cheshire East and the traffic commissioner does officially state that sufficient time should be given so that 95% of services run in the 6 minute 'on time' window (1 early to 5 late) so D&G could argue that they are ensuring that the services run on time. The negative effects of that are not recognised by either party.

I was talking from a point of breaking the rules, such as carrying more passengers than allowed (which they have done in the past, I've seen it first hand) but that is an interesting insight.

The 88 in the above instance, based off D&G timetables would give a 30 minute layover in Knutsford. Might as well make use of that to do the 300 rather than the 89 as then this would permit the 89 to run more regularly or interwork the 27 and 89.

I was thinking that a return 89 could be done in about an hour, and then it could spend half an hour on a loop before doing another Northwich run.

130 to Wythenshawe makes sense but it's a surprise Cheshire East did it given they are very fine on money. What TFGM fund are they getting? I didn't know that one.

I was assuming they got money off TfGM like they do for the 88.

If they did, who do you think would take over their routes?

Arriva, First, Stagecoach, other smaller operators and independants. The council does have contingencies for such an occurrence.

 

[Shauny]

I was talking from a point of breaking the rules, such as carrying more passengers than allowed (which they have done in the past, I've seen it first hand) but that is an interesting insight.

I was thinking that a return 89 could be done in about an hour, and then it could spend half an hour on a loop before doing another Northwich run.

I was assuming they got money off TfGM like they do for the 88.

Arriva, First, Stagecoach, other smaller operators and independants. The council does have contingencies for such an occurrence

I doubt Arriva would take on the 88, which depot would run it first of all? Winsford or Wythenshawe?

I doubt First would either, after what happened in Crewe 10 years ago, I doubt they will run an operation in Cheshire again (The 3 is Potteries)

Stagecoach, I mean, they recently won the tender for the 48 in Northwich, but again, the depot is in the Wirral, and I can’t see that happening. Also I don’t think Stagecoach Manchester would ever run a Cheshire East service.

I think a safe bet would be Warrington’s Own Buses, they could interwork the 88,89 with CAT5 & CAT9.