London Crosslink

[AndyMike]

I was wondering whether somebody could clarify my memory of something. I only travelled once on Anglia Railways’ London Crosslink service, using it to go from Norwich to Highbury & Islington. My recollection is that this was a loco-hauled service with Mark 2 carriages, but all online references state this can’t be right, and that Crosslink only employed Class 170s. I assume the latter is correct?

 

[JonathanH]

My recollection is that this was a loco-hauled service with Mark 2 carriages, but all online references state this can’t be right, and that Crosslink only employed Class 170s. I assume the latter is correct?

It definitely only used Class 170s. Clearly the primary intercity operation from Norwich did use hauled mark 2s at the same time.

 

[StephenHunter]

It definitely only used Class 170s. Clearly the primary intercity operation from Norwich did use hauled mark 2s at the same time.

Mark 2s hauled by 86s with a DBSO on the country end. They went past my school.

 

[JonathanH]

Mark 2s hauled by 86s with a DBSO on the country end. They went past my school.

Yes, but they didn't go to Basingstoke (or indeed to Highbury & Islington). If they did, with a class 47, I'd imagine they would appear on the class 47 archives at http://class47archives.blogspot.com/2014_09_10_archive.html

 

[dk1]

It was only ever 3-car 170201-208 & 2-car 170399. The latter usually had its own daily diagram starting/ending at Norwich so as not to get involved in Hull Trains workings.

There where tentative plans to use mk2s & 73s on a Waterloo-Southampton Terminus by Anglia Railways but these never came to anything.

 

[CarltonA]

I recall a 170 operated service passing through Staines with a green Anglia livery bound for Basingstoke. That was in the late '90s if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I recall a 170 operated service passing through Staines with a green Anglia livery bound for Basingstoke. That was in the late '90s if I'm not mistaken.

I remember seeing a blue two car set rush through Hampstead Heath once, shortly followed by a GNER Eurostar en route from North Pole - what a noise!

 

[AndyMike]

I recall a 170 operated service passing through Staines with a green Anglia livery bound for Basingstoke. That was in the late '90s if I'm not mistaken.

It operated from 2000 to 2002.

So, my memory was wrong, it seems - as, from various searches, I’d expected. It was an interesting service, but I doubt it got me home to north London any quicker than going to Liverpool Street and getting the underground would have done!

 

[TheBigD]

Mark 2s hauled by 86s with a DBSO on the country end. They went past my school.

Yes, but they didn't go to Basingstoke (or indeed to Highbury & Islington). If they did, with a class 47, I'd imagine they would appear on the class 47 archives at http://class47archives.blogspot.com/2014_09_10_archive.html

But one set did make it Kings Cross to Doncaster vice a 170 on a Hull Trains working one Sunday.

 

[nw1]

It operated from 2000 to 2002.

So, my memory was wrong, it seems - as, from various searches, I’d expected. It was an interesting service, but I doubt it got me home to north London any quicker than going to Liverpool Street and getting the underground would have done!

I remember seeing one on a rainy day in Basingstoke, but can't recall the exact date. However the years (2000-2) accord with what I remember.

FWIW I actually could have used it because I did travel to Colchester one day in April 2001. However I'd never done the GEML out of Liverpool St at all, and so going the 'usual' way was enough novelty in itself.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2022 ==

It was only ever 3-car 170201-208 & 2-car 170399. The latter usually had its own daily diagram starting/ending at Norwich so as not to get involved in Hull Trains workings.

There where tentative plans to use mk2s & 73s on a Waterloo-Southampton Terminus by Anglia Railways but these never came to anything.

I do remember this - it would have been presumably very expensive to implement (reopening Terminus) with little profit - most people would I suspect continue to use the standard SWT service.

 

[dk1]

I remember seeing one on a rainy day in Basingstoke, but can't recall the exact date. However the years (2000-2) accord with what I remember.

FWIW I actually could have used it because I did travel to Colchester one day in April 2001. However I'd never done the GEML out of Liverpool St at all, and so going the 'usual' way was enough novelty in itself.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2022 ==


I do remember this - it would have been presumably very expensive to implement (reopening Terminus) with little profit - most people would I suspect continue to use the standard SWT service.

Yes and I seem to recall SWT upped the frequency of their Waterloo services on the route to eat up paths makingbitveven more unviable. Gatwick's Express stock was likely to be used as had been made available by the new 460s.

 

[nw1]

Yes and I seem to recall SWT upped the frequency of their Waterloo services on the route to eat up paths makingbitveven more unviable. Gatwick's Express stock was likely to be used as had been made available by the new 460s.

Ah so that's why they did that (May 1999 was the time of this change). The non-cynical view would be that they wanted to provide an even-interval 15-min service to Southampton Central, which may have been the case, but the issue there was that the slower services (xx15 and xx45 out of Waterloo) were caught up by the following fasts (xx30 and xx00) so would presumably not have been used for Waterloo-Southampton journeys. That said, these services did, for the first time, provide even-interval 30-min services to intermediate stations such as Eastleigh, so did serve a genuine purpose. However it would have been better to divert one of them to Portsmouth via Fareham, as they indeed did a little later, to restore a semi-fast service on that route.

 

[dk1]

Ah so that's why they did that (May 1999 was the time of this change). The non-cynical view would be that they wanted to provide an even-interval 15-min service to Southampton Central, which may have been the case, but the issue there was that the slower services (xx15 and xx45 out of Waterloo) were caught up by the following fasts (xx30 and xx00) so would presumably not have been used for Waterloo-Southampton journeys. That said, these services did, for the first time, provide even-interval 30-min services to intermediate stations such as Eastleigh, so did serve a genuine purpose. However it would have been better to divert one of them to Portsmouth via Fareham, as they indeed did a little later, to restore a semi-fast service on that route.

Thanks for that. I also had 15min interval in the back of my mind concerning this subject.

 

[High Dyke]

Mark 2s hauled by 86s with a DBSO on the country end. They went past my school.

Would that have been working the 'European' from Harwich to Glasgow (and vice-versa)? During the late 1980s the service operated via the GEML & NLL. I'm not certain it called at Highbury and Islington though. I travelled on it from Shenfield to Watford Junction.

Found this photo link: https://www.flickr.com/groups/4463329@N21/pool/

 

[dk1]

Would that have been working the 'European' from Harwich to Glasgow (and vice-versa)? During the late 1980s the service operated via the GEML & NLL. I'm not certain it called at Highbury and Islington though. I travelled on it from Shenfield to Watford Junction.

Found this photo link: https://www.flickr.com/groups/4463329@N21/pool/

It was a very very temporary flop via the NLL.

 

[StephenHunter]

No, these were London to Norwich services in the late 1990s.

 

[Sprinter107]

I caught it a few times. 170399 had branding for that service at that particular time.

 

[dk1]

I caught it a few times. 170399 had branding for that service at that particular time.

And red SWT seating moquette.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Would that have been working the 'European' from Harwich to Glasgow (and vice-versa)? During the late 1980s the service operated via the GEML & NLL. I'm not certain it called at Highbury and Islington though. I travelled on it from Shenfield to Watford Junction.

Found this photo link: https://www.flickr.com/groups/4463329@N21/pool/

No doubt along with a few passengers intending to get to Liverpool Street.....

 

[Sprinter107]

And red SWT seating moquette.

Yes, and the rather nice blue and gold in first.

 

[dk1]

Yes, and the rather nice blue and gold in first.

For some reason I thought 399 was standard class only. Was a long time ago now.

 

[TheBigD]

For some reason I thought 399 was standard class only. Was a long time ago now.

Nope, first class at both ends.

 

[dk1]

Nope, first class at both ends.

Blimey. Used to work that on the 07:38 ex-Norwich & ECS back in the evening & couldn't remember.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I used it to travel from Feltham to Stratford. Definitely a multiple unit

 

[Taunton]

Was its primary purpose not an Orcats raid by Anglia on London-Basingstoke revenue? It would have been profitable if empty.

 

[dk1]

Was its primary purpose not an Orcats raid by Anglia on London-Basingstoke revenue? It would have been profitable if empty.

It didn’t serve any London terminals.

 

[Taunton]

It didn’t serve any London terminals.

Doesn't matter, there's enough other stuff along the way.

 

[dk1]

Doesn't matter, there's enough other stuff along the way.

Not with anywhere near the same revenue generation or abstraction though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2022 ==

Anglia built up quite a bit of additional intermediate traffic though, particularly at Brentford.

 

[StephenHunter]

Stratford and Clapham Junction are rather busy places.

 

[dk1]

Stratford and Clapham Junction are rather busy places.

Stratford is a lot busier now. Wasn’t quite the same story back then.

CrossLink didn’t serve Clapham Junction.