Avanti West Coast Rolling Stock Updates

[Bletchleyite]

Only just seen the refurbishment now, and it's a shame that they got rid of the ambient lamps in first class. Standard has moved to an ironing board and it looks like, but correct me if I'm wrong, that they have reduced legroom and stuffed more seats in.

The seating layout is completely unchanged, and the converted 1st coach on the 11-cars is a mirror of Coach E if I recall (i.e. the same layout but reversed). This should mean more legroom. You can confirm this by looking at the seating plans which are already on the Avanti website and have been for a while.

The seats aren't ironing boards, though they look similar. They're the same as used on Lumo, and these seem to be getting good reports.

 

[Trackman]

390125 seems to have been on test again today.

it’s out and about again today.

 

[Grumpy Git]

It’s supposed to be on test from
Next Tuesday running a Blackpool to Carlisle service and back strangely. It’s showing as a passenger service but it’s just for engineers. The engineers are going to test the tilt on it on the north of the Mainline

Does this involve a reversal at Preston? If so, why bother starting at Blackpool.

 

[Some guy]

Does this involve a reversal at Preston? If so, why bother starting at Blackpool.

Yeah it reverses at Preston it sits in the RES platform and stays in Preston for nearly 3 hours so it must not be a passenger service but showing by accident

 

[Huntergreed]

Yeah it reverses at Preston it sits in the RES platform and stays in Preston for nearly 3 hours so it must not be a passenger service but showing by accident

If I wasn’t away, I’d be tempted to head down to get a sneak peek!

I’d imagine they’ll need to send it up this way once or twice to check tilt north of the border before putting into service.

 

[Steddenm]

I'm wondering if the Pandolinos have had SDO added during the recent refit and the reason it's doing BPN-CAR via PRE is so that they can test this at Poulton-le-Fylde and Kirkham & Wesham?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Next Tuesday running a Blackpool to Carlisle service and back strangely. It’s showing as a passenger service but it’s just for engineers. The engineers are going to test the tilt on it on the north of the Mainline

Has anything been done to the tilt system during the refurb?
If that still has to be tested it means the refurb is incomplete - a 390 is no use without its tilt.

 

[Skie]

Has anything been done to the tilt system during the refurb?
If that still has to be tested it means the refurb is incomplete - a 390 is no use without its tilt.

Could just be testing that the newly distributed weight doesn’t change the tilt dynamics. And to shake out any last remnants of life in the cheap and nasty interior

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2022 ==

I'm wondering if the Pandolinos have had SDO added during the recent refit and the reason it's doing BPN-CAR via PRE is so that they can test this at Poulton-le-Fylde and Kirkham & Wesham?

They already had SDO

 

[43301]

Could just be testing that the newly distributed weight doesn’t change the tilt dynamics.

Has coach C been changed as shown in the artists' impressions? i.e. to basically more of a standard train buffet counter rather than a 'shop'?

 

[Some guy]

I'm wondering if the Pandolinos have had SDO added during the recent refit and the reason it's doing BPN-CAR via PRE is so that they can test this at Poulton-le-Fylde and Kirkham & Wesham?

It could be very likely they can do it haymarket and the 11 cars don’t fit in there so why not. It would help make up for the grand central services which we’re supposed to stop there

 

[Carlisle]

It could be very likely they can do it haymarket and the 11 cars don’t fit in there

As @Skie says 390s have had SDO for a few years now .

 

[tornado]

The most important thing to me is that it seems they haven't changed the lighting colour. The pendos are one of the few trains still left with nice warm bulbs (2700K? 3000K?) rather than the hospital/supermarket clinical white (6000K?) that the 800x etc. seem to go for.

It makes so much difference in feeling relaxed on the train. The only other train with warm lighting are the XC Voyagers, but I hate the fact they're so noisy.

 

[43301]

The most important thing to me is that it seems they haven't changed the lighting colour. The pendos are one of the few trains still left with nice warm bulbs (2700K? 3000K?) rather than the hospital/supermarket clinical white (6000K?) that the 800x etc. seem to go for.

It makes so much difference in feeling relaxed on the train. The only other train with warm lighting are the XC Voyagers, but I hate the fact they're so noisy.

Agree with you on the recent lighting - far too bright and clinical, but I find Voyagers and Pendolinos (especially, given their small windows) rather dingy. Something in between would be good - the Mk4s and XC HSTs are about right.

The searingly bright white lighting in the IETs is certainly not pleasant.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Obviously as my username would suggest I'm registered blind, are there any significant interior changes in the refurbishment like toilets in different places or shop moved or similar?

 

[43055]

Obviously as my username would suggest I'm registered blind, are there any significant interior changes in the refurbishment like toilets in different places or shop moved or similar?

I don't believe there are any changes to the layout of the train except around the shop area and one of the coaches on the 11 car trains changing from First class to Standard.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks very much. What has changed in the shop?

 

[43301]

Thanks very much. What has changed in the shop?

Assuming it's been done as per the concept pictures which appeared last year, it's now more a standard buffet counter type setup - Virgin were the only operator in this country to go for that 'shop' concept and layout.

 

[childwallblues]

Assuming it's been done as per the concept pictures which appeared last year, it's now more a standard buffet counter type setup - Virgin were the only operator in this country to go for that 'shop' concept and layout.

A 390 was in the sidings adjacent to the Alstom Depot at Widnes yesterday afternoon with an 08 attached.

 

[Trackman]

I don't believe there are any changes to the layout of the train except around the shop area and one of the coaches on the 11 car trains changing from First class to Standard.

Standard loses 10 seats for bigger luggage racks I believe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Standard loses 10 seats for bigger luggage racks I believe.

Yep. The seating plans are on the Avanti website if you want to see them. Those seats will be unreserved until the full rollout is complete.

 

[43055]

Yep. The seating plans are on the Avanti website if you want to see them. Those seats will be unreserved until the full rollout is complete.

Looks like it has been taken down as I looked for the new one last night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like it has been taken down as I looked for the new one last night.

Yep, they are missing again.

 

[Ethano92]

The seating layout is completely unchanged, and the converted 1st coach on the 11-cars is a mirror of Coach E if I recall (i.e. the same layout but reversed). This should mean more legroom. You can confirm this by looking at the seating plans which are already on the Avanti website and have been for a while.

The seats aren't ironing boards, though they look similar. They're the same as used on Lumo, and these seem to be getting good reports.

Sorry if it’s already been covered but is there a reason the actual seat had to be changed rather than just a new seat cover? I’m assuming updated crash/fire regulations.

Either way the 390s are easily one of the most comfortable and relaxing trains in the country to travel on. Whilst I don’t find 80X units bad, pendelinos are simply better. I would hope we see HS2 stock which reflects the passenger experience of a pendo.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Either way the 390s are easily one of the most comfortable and relaxing trains in the country to travel on. Whilst I don’t find 80X units bad, pendelinos are simply better. I would hope we see HS2 stock which reflects the passenger experience of a pendo.

I must agree. Sadly, I'm skeptical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry if it’s already been covered but is there a reason the actual seat had to be changed rather than just a new seat cover?

To improve the passenger experience, e.g. by a thinner seat offering more legroom with the same seat count (well, -10 for bigger luggage racks). The same seats are in Voyagers and have been retained, so there was clearly no requirement to replace.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The voyagers are not being retained long-term though so they probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble and expense of replacing the seats. I await the new new pendolino seat with interest and if it is the same as on lumo then it will be all right although is still a downgrade I agree.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The voyagers are not being retained long-term though so they probably wouldn't have gone to the trouble and expense of replacing the seats. I await the new new pendolino seat with interest and if it is the same as on lumo then it will be all right although is still a downgrade I agree.

If the legroom gain is as much as I think it will be, it'll be a massive upgrade for me in that I will be able to sit in any seat (as I can on 80x, say) rather than only about 10% of them (priority and tables only).

 

[MalaiseForever]

If the legroom gain is as much as I think it will be, it'll be a massive upgrade for me in that I will be able to sit in any seat (as I can on 80x, say) rather than only about 10% of them (priority and tables only).

I hope so too, I ended up sitting in the luggage rack half way down the coach from Crewe to Manchester on Saturday and it was actually very comfortable versus being cramped up.

 

[tornado]

Agree with you on the recent lighting - far too bright and clinical, but I find Voyagers and Pendolinos (especially, given their small windows) rather dingy. Something in between would be good - the Mk4s and XC HSTs are about right.

The searingly bright white lighting in the IETs is certainly not pleasant.

There are two things at play here. Colour temperature (2700K = yellow, 6000K = hospital white), and brightness. 2700K is similar to the colour of old filament bulbs. So possibly you wouldn't find them "dingy" if they simply improved the brightness, rather than changing the colour and the brightness.

Sorry if it’s already been covered but is there a reason the actual seat had to be changed rather than just a new seat cover? I’m assuming updated crash/fire regulations.

Either way the 390s are easily one of the most comfortable and relaxing trains in the country to travel on. Whilst I don’t find 80X units bad, pendelinos are simply better. I would hope we see HS2 stock which reflects the passenger experience of a pendo.

I totally agree. I recently returned to using Pendos after a 15 year hiatus, and they really are the Rolls Royce of train travel. Unbeatable for smoothness and quietness, and on a lightly loaded Pendo you can feel as fresh after 4 hours as when you started! I actually like the small partitioning "walls" scattered down the carriage over the completely open 800x, as it makes wherever you are sitting feel more private.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope so too, I ended up sitting in the luggage from Crewe to Manchester on Saturday and it was actually very comfortable.e versus being cramped up

The existing seats are I think about 3" thick, with a "niche" that is no use to me because my hips are too wide for my knees to go in it. If the new ones are down to about 1", as I think they are, this could be a major improvement. A similar thing done to Northern's 158s has made them go from very poor legroom to excellent legroom simply by swapping the seats on the same layout.

I totally agree. I recently returned to using Pendos after a 15 year hiatus, and they really are the Rolls Royce of train travel. Unbeatable for smoothness and quietness, and on a lightly loaded Pendo you can feel as fresh after 4 hours as when you started! I actually like the small partitioning "walls" scattered down the carriage over the completely open 800x, as it makes wherever you are sitting feel more private.

In First Class they are - I would say it's easily the best First Class in the UK, other than that it could do with a few more single seats. In Standard they are rather cramped even though the decor and lighting is to my preference.

That's all very Virgin, to be honest - on their airline, they've pushed the boundaries of Business Class and Premium Economy to get them rather close to actually being First and Business but at the lower prices of Business and Premium Economy respectively. However, their actual Economy is one of the worst in the business, with seats packed in very tightly indeed. They used to compensate by having fancy at-seat entertainment, but everyone has that now, and if they don't I've got an iPad so don't care, I'd rather have no at-seat entertainment at all if I could have an inch more legroom.