Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[Class455]

If you're being truthful, it may have been the wrong day to state that!

It was indeed an April Fools Joke (unfortunately, I’d like them to stay)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

They're being considered for conversion into Class 855 Battery trains for the Non Third Rail lines on SN

Now that is an April Fools

 

[03_179]

Who knows ... I've heard worse ideas

 

[physics34]

Hoping it's not an April Fool as it feels obvious to me there won't be enough stock to cover all the 455 turns, especially with the return of the full timetable in May. There still seem to be plenty of them out every day and seeing some short forms which presumably are a result of some of them being taken away

I think there will be a bit of short formations until the 377/5s or 387/1s arrive but may not be as bad as u think. For a start its not the full (2018) timetable. Spare units will avaliable due to the milton keynes being cut to watford, and peak shepherds bush shuttles will not run. Off peak vic - sutton and vic - London Bridge will not run. Peak time LBG to Wbledon/Guildfords will not run. 313s maybe utilised more in the meantime, and i guess some other 377 workings will be shorter formed.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think there will be a bit of short formations until the 377/5s or 387/1s arrive but may not be as bad as u think. For a start its not the full (2018) timetable. Spare units will avaliable due to the milton keynes being cut to watford, and peak shepherds bush shuttles will not run. Off peak vic - sutton and vic - London Bridge will not run. Peak time LBG to Wbledon/Guildfords will not run. 313s maybe utilised more in the meantime, and i guess some other 377 workings will be shorter formed.

Well the East Grinsteads don't justify 12 car off peak for starters

 

[physics34]

Well the East Grinsteads don't justify 12 car off peak for starters

Yeh true. The cat /tats could easily be 3+3 off peak too

 

[Southern Dvr]

Cat/Tat will be 4+4
CLJ/WFJ will be 4 cars on weekdays and 8 cars on Saturdays
Tulse Hill lines will be 5 cars
Mitcham Jnc lines mostly will be 5 cars

 

[JonathanH]

Cat/Tat will be 4+4
CLJ/WFJ will be 4 cars on weekdays and 8 cars on Saturdays
Tulse Hill lines will be 5 cars
Mitcham Jnc lines mostly will be 5 cars

Presumably some 6 car services in the mix as well then?

 

[Southern Dvr]

Presumably some 6 car services in the mix as well then?

Think (not confirmed) the LBG/EPS workings will be 6 car.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Which is the best route to ride the Class 455s on the weekends if I want a quiet journey?

I would like to record the motor sounds, so the fewer people onboard, the better.

I have another technical question: Where is the best position to hear the camshafts on the Southern 455s? Something like the 'click clicks' you hear on the 1972 stock. I've tried sitting at the middle of the 455 motor car, as well as over the bogies, but I can't hear any 'clicks'.

 

[JonathanH]

Which is the best route to ride the Class 455s on the weekends if I want a quiet journey?

Probably Sutton to Epsom Downs, Caterham to Purley or Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Probably Sutton to Epsom Downs, Caterham to Purley or Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction.

Epsom Downs is becoming very 377 saturated on weekends now. 3 of the 4 Epsom Downs services I saw while on the route the other day were 377, with only one 455. I don’t know what the fifth was.

 

[JonathanH]

Epsom Downs is becoming very 377 saturated on weekends now. 3 of the 4 Epsom Downs services I saw while on the route the other day were 377, with only one 455. I don’t know what the fifth was.

I wonder if it is dependent on what engineering work is on?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder if it is dependent on what engineering work is on?

None the day I went

 

[physics34]

Which is the best route to ride the Class 455s on the weekends if I want a quiet journey?

I would like to record the motor sounds, so the fewer people onboard, the better.

I have another technical question: Where is the best position to hear the camshafts on the Southern 455s? Something like the 'click clicks' you hear on the 1972 stock. I've tried sitting at the middle of the 455 motor car, as well as over the bogies, but I can't hear any 'clicks'.

U dont really get clicks on a 455, you get air releases when the line switches get going....and that would be the '62xxx' motor coach

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Think (not confirmed) the LBG/EPS workings will be 6 car.

That'll be a bit cosy - they're well loaded most of the time at the moment with ten cars...

 

[boiledbeans2]

Thanks for all your suggestions on where to ride the 455s.

U dont really get clicks on a 455, you get air releases when the line switches get going....and that would be the '62xxx' motor coach

Which part of the motor coach should I be sitting at to hear the air releases? Over the bogies? At the centre between the 2 bogies?

 

[Timmyd]

Cat/Tat will be 4+4
CLJ/WFJ will be 4 cars on weekdays and 8 cars on Saturdays
Tulse Hill lines will be 5 cars
Mitcham Jnc lines mostly will be 5 cars

5 cars even in the peak via Tulse Hill? That will be very cosy

 

[Southern Dvr]

5 cars even in the peak via Tulse Hill? That will be very cosy

The whole network is going to be very cosy!! Out of 46 Class 455s on a Saturday (when the most services operate) 40 units are required. So, take out 40 units without anything at all coming in to replace and you can only run the (reduced) service with formation cuts.

 

[brad465]

The whole network is going to be very cosy!! Out of 46 Class 455s on a Saturday (when the most services operate) 40 units are required. So, take out 40 units without anything at all coming in to replace and you can only run the (reduced) service with formation cuts.

Are there any plans to have any replacement stock by the time 455s are all withdrawn? Not all of the 377s currently at SE are expected to be moving over immediately for a start.

 

[fgwrich]

Which is the best route to ride the Class 455s on the weekends if I want a quiet journey?

I would like to record the motor sounds, so the fewer people onboard, the better.

I have another technical question: Where is the best position to hear the camshafts on the Southern 455s? Something like the 'click clicks' you hear on the 1972 stock. I've tried sitting at the middle of the 455 motor car, as well as over the bogies, but I can't hear any 'clicks'.

I know this thread is Southern related, but if you ever want the South Western units, id suggest catching a service from Woking towards Waterloo. I headed up to Esher a few weekends ago and how the motor coach to myself.

 

[JonathanH]

Are there any plans to have any replacement stock by the time 455s are all withdrawn? Not all of the 377s currently at SE are expected to be moving over immediately for a start.

No. The 455s are simply eliminated by changing stock formations. Any 377s transferring from Southeastern appear to be connected with 313 withdrawal later in the year.

 

[brad465]

No. The 455s are simply eliminated by changing stock formations. Any 377s transferring from Southeastern appear to be connected with 313 withdrawal later in the year.

So the mention upthread of SE's 2x 377/1s going back to Southern this month is at least delayed (in the grand scheme of things 2 units is miniscule though).

 

[LA50041]

The whole network is going to be very cosy!! Out of 46 Class 455s on a Saturday (when the most services operate) 40 units are required. So, take out 40 units without anything at all coming in to replace and you can only run the (reduced) service with formation cuts.

This is incorrect, in the December timetable there are only 26 455’s required on a Saturday. There are also a number of electrostars stabled all weekend across the network that could be used to replace 455’s.

 

[physics34]

They could intensify the 313 work on the coast to free up some more 377s, until their replacements arrive

 

[HamworthyGoods]

They could intensify the 313 work on the coast to free up some more 377s, until their replacements arrive

Much cheaper (as 313s needs guards) just to replace the 455s as planned with service adjustments. The May plan is near enough set in stone, very little time to change it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This is incorrect, in the December timetable there are only 26 455’s required on a Saturday. There are also a number of electrostars stabled all weekend across the network that could be used to replace 455’s.

So how many are needed weekdays though as presumably there aren't spare 377's then?

Of course we know how it will be manged that's by reducing formations and accepting that if you are foolish enough to buy an expensive season ticket to travel in the "new rush hour" you won't get a seat or maybe even get on the train.

 

[Stephen42]

So how many are needed weekdays though as presumably there aren't spare 377's then?

Of course we know how it will be manged that's by reducing formations and accepting that if you are foolish enough to buy an expensive season ticket to travel in the "new rush hour" you won't get a seat or maybe even get on the train.

Think currently it's 28 455s on weekdays. The Network Rail open data doesn't have formations but there's 25ish fewer concurrent schedules than pre-pandemic and many would have been 2 units. For concurrent schedules the current and May timetables are very similar so expect there's currently several 377s stabled during peaks.

Saturday services are reduced in the May timetable anyway, Victoria - London Bridge, Victoria - Sutton disappear and Milton Keynes cut back to Watford saves most of the requirement before touching the 377s.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Think currently it's 28 455s on weekdays. The Network Rail open data doesn't have formations but there's 25ish fewer concurrent schedules than pre-pandemic and many would have been 2 units. For concurrent schedules the current and May timetables are very similar so expect there's currently several 377s stabled during peaks.

Saturday services are reduced in the May timetable anyway, Victoria - London Bridge, Victoria - Sutton disappear and Milton Keynes cut back to Watford saves most of the requirement before touching the 377s.

Brighton - West Worthing and Brighton - Lewes go as well on Saturday's. Allow 313's to be used on other West/East Coastway services and free's up 377's to be sent North to help out strengthening up there if required.

 

[LA50041]

So how many are needed weekdays though as presumably there aren't spare 377's then?

Of course we know how it will be manged that's by reducing formations and accepting that if you are foolish enough to buy an expensive season ticket to travel in the "new rush hour" you won't get a seat or maybe even get on the train.

There are currently 28 455's diagrammed on weekdays, and there are 24 377's of various types stabled spare at various points across the network.