Wensleydale Railway... Current goings-on?

[moorsman]

According to WR on facebook reopening to Redmire is seriously delayed. Sounds like hundreds more rotten sleepers have been found between Leyburn and Redmire...so even more concrete and rail needed. Hope they don't waste money by putting wood ones back in.

 

[Ploughman]

Nothing wrng with using Timber.

 

[paul1609]

Nothing wrng with using Timber.

If the Wensleydale in 22 miles long and wooden sleepered throughout and the average life of a wooden sleeper is 30 years you'd need to change around 1200 sleepers a year. That's a lot of very enthusiastic and fit volunteers.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority is proposing a bridleway along the trackbed from Hawes to Garsdale:

Views sought on Hawes-Garsdale bridleway proposal - Yorkshire Dales National Park

People are being asked for their views on the creation of a ‘family friendly’ bridleway along a former railway line in Upper Wensleydale. This new bridleway would provide a safe […]

www.yorkshiredales.org.uk

(Personally I think this is a great idea - there's clearly no railway reopening happening any time soon, and this would be a lovely walk/ride in itself as well as safeguarding the trackbed for any future use.)

 

[Iskra]

There is an interesting event in the timetable coming up: a guided railway tour with the general manager using the class 121 Bubble Car. I thought it worth mentioning as I've not seen any other railway do anything like this before, it's Friday 29th April.

General Managers Special - Wensleydale Railway

wensleydale-railway.co.uk

Ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes in the planning and operation of the railway, well now is your chance to partake in a guided tour with the person who knows all the answers.

Your journey will begin at 14:00 with a tour around Leeming Bar including the station house and the maintenance shed. We will then get on the bubble car and travel to Scruton where you will be able to look around the station, recreated to give a glimpse of life in the 1900’s. We will then travel from Scruton to Finghall where the train will stop for a few minutes to allow a visit to a station that is rarely visited, before travelling up to to Leyburn where you will have time to look around and see the progress being made there, then get back on the train and travel down to Bedale. You can choose to get of the train and visit the pubs of Bedale or stay on the train and return to Leeming Bar. Complementary hot drinks will be available on board the train and a selection of snacks and alcoholic drinks will be available for purchase.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority is proposing a bridleway along the trackbed from Hawes to Garsdale:

Views sought on Hawes-Garsdale bridleway proposal - Yorkshire Dales National Park

People are being asked for their views on the creation of a ‘family friendly’ bridleway along a former railway line in Upper Wensleydale. This new bridleway would provide a safe […]

www.yorkshiredales.org.uk

(Personally I think this is a great idea - there's clearly no railway reopening happening any time soon, and this would be a lovely walk/ride in itself as well as safeguarding the trackbed for any future use.)

I agree it's a good idea. The railway's response to this could be to get with a cycle hire company (or set one up itself) and offer an all in one package to enjoy both bits!

The railway in this case isn't public transport, it's a day out experience, to which this would add (and maybe a volunteer run vintage bus service alongside it for non-cyclists, or to cycle one way and bus the other). It wouldn't be viable as public transport without subsidy, and that subsidy would get you far more of a bus service.

 

[Techniquest]

The Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority is proposing a bridleway along the trackbed from Hawes to Garsdale:

Views sought on Hawes-Garsdale bridleway proposal - Yorkshire Dales National Park

People are being asked for their views on the creation of a ‘family friendly’ bridleway along a former railway line in Upper Wensleydale. This new bridleway would provide a safe […]

www.yorkshiredales.org.uk

(Personally I think this is a great idea - there's clearly no railway reopening happening any time soon, and this would be a lovely walk/ride in itself as well as safeguarding the trackbed for any future use.)

I am so glad I decided to look at this thread today! What an excellent idea, I am very supportive of this idea! Survey filled in, unsurprisingly, and I'd strongly encourage others to do so. Anything that helps create opportunities to explore the beautiful Earth that we live on must be worth supporting, especially when it helps humanity achieve its other aim, to be healthier in general!

 

[billio]

The Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority is proposing a bridleway along the trackbed from Hawes to Garsdale:

Views sought on Hawes-Garsdale bridleway proposal - Yorkshire Dales National Park

People are being asked for their views on the creation of a ‘family friendly’ bridleway along a former railway line in Upper Wensleydale. This new bridleway would provide a safe […]

www.yorkshiredales.org.uk

(Personally I think this is a great idea - there's clearly no railway reopening happening any time soon, and this would be a lovely walk/ride in itself as well as safeguarding the trackbed for any future use.)

I agree, a good idea. The footpath that parallels much of the upper part of the route is a particularly rough one. It appears lightly used and only has the advantage of passing the Moorcock Inn.

There is the 'Little White Bus' which provides a bus service between Hawes and Garsdale. On weekdays it appears to me to be little used. Unfortunately it does not provide a service that connects with the 15-59 train to Leeds.

On the other hand I note there are many responses to the survey supporting a railway rather than a bridleway. A Leeds - Hawes train journey would probably take 2 hours (1hour 40 minutes to Garsdale and 20 minutes to Hawes). That would be a competitive time compared with driving.

 

[Worf]

If the trackbed is converted into a bridleway, it effectively removes the possibility of it ever becoming a railway again. Horses and trains don't mix. The upper dale is virtually all open access land anyway, apart from the valley bottom. With rising fuel costs and an uncertain world, private transport could eventually be a luxury only the few can afford. Surely we should be safeguarding potential railway routes for future generations?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the trackbed is converted into a bridleway, it effectively removes the possibility of it ever becoming a railway again. Horses and trains don't mix. The upper dale is virtually all open access land anyway, apart from the valley bottom. With rising fuel costs and an uncertain world, private transport could eventually be a luxury only the few can afford. Surely we should be safeguarding potential railway routes for future generations?

Actually it preserves the route. Otherwise people tend to do stuff like building houses on it.

But that aside, the correct solution for public transport in Wensleydale, if the situation you describe arises, is to fully reinstate routes 156/157 (Northallerton-Bedale-Hawes-Garsdale) as an hourly electric bus service, not to reopen the railway for public transport. These routes (and what remains of them) were ironically created by...the Wensleydale Railway!

Even if cars were banned entirely, the Dale is too sparsely populated to justify more than that. You'd just see more cycling and e-bikes too.

Arguably, like Keswick, the cycle path will probably be of far greater value, as the road is horrible to cycle on, but it's just fine for running buses along, and they go closer to some of the settlements than the railway ever did.

 

[david1212]

If the trackbed is converted into a bridleway, it effectively removes the possibility of it ever becoming a railway again. Horses and trains don't mix. The upper dale is virtually all open access land anyway, apart from the valley bottom. With rising fuel costs and an uncertain world, private transport could eventually be a luxury only the few can afford. Surely we should be safeguarding potential railway routes for future generations?

Actually it preserves the route. Otherwise people tend to do stuff like building houses on it ....

Both are true. The issue is that even where the route was double track there is not sufficient width to re-instate a single line railway even with 25mph speed limit with a boundary fence and a bridleway / cycle path considered wide enough to be safe also with walkers. As an example this comes up every time re-instating Buxton - Matlock though-out is discussed. Cost aside there has to be sufficient public land beyond the original trackbed width to cater for both.

 

[43301]

Both are true. The issue is that even where the route was double track there is not sufficient width to re-instate a single line railway even with 25mph speed limit with a boundary fence and a bridleway / cycle path considered wide enough to be safe also with walkers. As an example this comes up every time re-instating Buxton - Matlock though-out is discussed. Cost aside there has to be sufficient public land beyond the original trackbed width to cater for both.

The chances of that ever being reinstated as a railway are about nil. The WR is already one of the longest heritage lines - running all the way through to Garsdale would be a massively expensive undertaking, both to construct and maintain. The chances of reinstating a national rail service in such a sparsely populated area is pretty much zero.

Using it as a path would safeguard the structures and provide an easy walking / cycling route from the station at Garsdale into Hawes.

The issue plans like this always seem to come up against is opposition from those who think a railway should always take precedence, and with unrealistic views on the likelihood of that happening.

 

[A0]

Surely we should be safeguarding potential railway routes for future generations?

The issue with this statement is many of the closed routes weren't viable as railway lines 60 years ago and still wouldn't be now or in the future.

If you're building new railways far better to identify a suitable new alignment rather than try to rehash a substandard alignment from the 1800s with all the limitations that route had to begin with.

 

[Techniquest]

The issue with this statement is many of the closed routes weren't viable as railway lines 60 years ago and still wouldn't be now or in the future.

If you're building new railways far better to identify a suitable new alignment rather than try to rehash a substandard alignment from the 1800s with all the limitations that route had to begin with.

Absolutely 100% agreed.

To avoid going off-topic with this, as it's an interesting discussion, is there even a remote possibility of a better alignment for the railway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely 100% agreed.

To avoid going off-topic with this, as it's an interesting discussion, is there even a remote possibility of a better alignment for the railway?

If you've got a few hundred million quid, yes. It's quite hilly countryside, but it is mostly farming so I suspect land purchase would be fairly easy.

It's not however really in reach of any preserved line. And as I said, if you want public transport you'd be getting a world-envied electric bus service for that sort of money. And said bus would be feasible to have serving Northallerton station so would be more useful for connections.

 

[Techniquest]

If you've got a few hundred million quid, yes. It's quite hilly countryside, but it is mostly farming so I suspect land purchase would be fairly easy.

It's not however really in reach of any preserved line. And as I said, if you want public transport you'd be getting a world-envied electric bus service for that sort of money. And said bus would be feasible to have serving Northallerton station so would be more useful for connections.

Oh indeed it is a hilly part of the world, it's not an area I am versed in enough to know for sure which is why I asked. I had a feeling the answer would be similar to what you said though. Just to be clear, I was more thinking if this route could be fully re-opened between Northallerton and the other mainline, not as a project for a heritage railway. Which would be absolutely huge!

Yes I agree, the e-bus solution would be much better, you won't see me disagreeing on such a topic. I'm all for modernising and cleaning up the environment, it's high time this was done. I watched some old HST videos this morning, from the VXC days, and excluding the joy from the nostalgia that era (mid 2000s) brings, the state of the exhaust fumes being expulsed was a stark reminder of how filthy things used to be on the railway, and how far things are finally coming along.

I wonder if it is potentially worth trialling an e-bus scheme in such an area.

 

[paul1609]

The issue with this statement is many of the closed routes weren't viable as railway lines 60 years ago and still wouldn't be now or in the future.

If you're building new railways far better to identify a suitable new alignment rather than try to rehash a substandard alignment from the 1800s with all the limitations that route had to begin with.

A further twist to this is that the railway that it connects to the Settle & Carlisle isn't by any stretch of the imagination viable anymore since the coal traffic which it provide a diversionary route for has been phased out for environmental reasons. A replacement electric bus from say Skipton to Penrith apart from saving millions a year in infrastructure subsidy alone would have the advatage of serving Hawes and negating the need for a branch.

 

[Pinza-C55]

The chances of that ever being reinstated as a railway are about nil. The WR is already one of the longest heritage lines - running all the way through to Garsdale would be a massively expensive undertaking, both to construct and maintain. The chances of reinstating a national rail service in such a sparsely populated area is pretty much zero.

Using it as a path would safeguard the structures and provide an easy walking / cycling route from the station at Garsdale into Hawes.

The issue plans like this always seem to come up against is opposition from those who think a railway should always take precedence, and with unrealistic views on the likelihood of that happening.

I think a railway should always take precedence but I volunteered for the WR for 2 years and the realist in me knows that the chances of Redmire - Garsdale ever being reopened are zero.

 

[Worf]

I think a railway should always take precedence but I volunteered for the WR for 2 years and the realist in me knows that the chances of Redmire - Garsdale ever being reopened are zero.

Are you forgetting who owns Aysgarth station now?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Are you forgetting who owns Aysgarth station now?

No I'm not. But I have a fair bit of knowledge about the condition of the rest of the line and the problems and cost of rebuilding it would be astronomical. When the reopening of the Stainmore Railway was mooted in 1996 the society put out a detailed estimate of the costs (including rebuilding Belah Viaduct) and it "could be done" but of course it never was and never will be.

 

[paul1609]

No I'm not. But I have a fair bit of knowledge about the condition of the rest of the line and the problems and cost of rebuilding it would be astronomical. When the reopening of the Stainmore Railway was mooted in 1996 the society put out a detailed estimate of the costs (including rebuilding Belah Viaduct) and it "could be done" but of course it never was and never will be.

Ive walked most of Redmire to Hawes section. You'd be in effect building a new railway for that section, the embankments and structures are such that youd demolish what was left and build new. Its way beyond the ability of the UK heritage railway industry which ever society or company was involved. I doubt Hawes to Garsdale is any better.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Who owns

Are you forgetting who owns Aysgarth station now?

Who does own Aysgarth station now?

 

[Zontar]

Didn't the army relay a lot of track between redmire and Northallerton a couple of years ago?

 

[43301]

Ive walked most of Redmire to Hawes section. You'd be in effect building a new railway for that section, the embankments and structures are such that youd demolish what was left and build new. Its way beyond the ability of the UK heritage railway industry which ever society or company was involved. I doubt Hawes to Garsdale is any better.

There are a couple of viaducts on the Hawes to Garsdale section too - don't know what sort of condition those are in.

 

[Pinza-C55]

There are a couple of viaducts on the Hawes to Garsdale section too - don't know what sort of condition those are in.

And the tunnel. The only way to enjoy that section is the Trainz rail simulation.

 

[alexl92]

Who owns

Who does own Aysgarth station now?

David Smith, owner of West Coast Railway Company

 

[quantinghome]

Ive walked most of Redmire to Hawes section. You'd be in effect building a new railway for that section, the embankments and structures are such that youd demolish what was left and build new. Its way beyond the ability of the UK heritage railway industry which ever society or company was involved. I doubt Hawes to Garsdale is any better.

Reopening as a narrow gauge railway would significantly reduce the need to rebuild earthworks and structures. Plus it might attract more visitors - Yorkshire already has plenty of standard gauge heritage lines.

 

[paul1609]

Reopening as a narrow gauge railway would significantly reduce the need to rebuild earthworks and structures. Plus it might attract more visitors - Yorkshire already has plenty of standard gauge heritage lines.

Im sure your right but it would still be a huge project. On the ground especially in summer with all the growth etc its actually quite difficult to see where the railway actually went especially in the Askrigg area. Its much much easier looking at satelite view on Google maps than it is actually finding the remains. Then of course there's the land ownership issues.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Reopening as a narrow gauge railway would significantly reduce the need to rebuild earthworks and structures. Plus it might attract more visitors - Yorkshire already has plenty of standard gauge heritage lines.

It would still require acquisition of the land and arguably Askrigg and Hawes Stations plus replacement of the 3 span girder river bridge at Hawes and a bridge to cross the road west of Hawes plus refurbishment of the tunnel, 18 miles of track plus pointwork and signalling, locomotives and rolling stock. If Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos fancied a crack it could be done. otherwise no.

 

[Techniquest]

David Smith, owner of West Coast Railway Company

To those of us, myself of course included, who don't really follow the heritage scene, why is this such a big important thing?