End of all remaining Covid restrictions in England

[scarby]

I live in Sweden and have been in England for a few days.

The notable difference in my observation is that while in Sweden things have returned to normal, in England it has only gone back to "near normal", with a lot of encouragement/pressure in specific settings for people to wear masks, and still a lot of signage on public transport. It feels very odd to me, as in some settings it is encouraged and in others it isn't mentioned at all, seemingly with no rhyme or reason.

 

[bengley]

I live in Sweden and have been in England for a few days.

The notable difference in my observation is that while in Sweden things have returned to normal, in England it has only gone back to "near normal", with a lot of encouragement/pressure in specific settings for people to wear masks, and still a lot of signage on public transport. It feels very odd to me, as in some settings it is encouraged and in others it isn't mentioned at all, seemingly with no rhyme or reason.

The simple answer is we are a nation of snowflakes and the snowflakes need to be pandered to otherwise they'll all get upset.

 

[bramling]

I live in Sweden and have been in England for a few days.

The notable difference in my observation is that while in Sweden things have returned to normal, in England it has only gone back to "near normal", with a lot of encouragement/pressure in specific settings for people to wear masks, and still a lot of signage on public transport. It feels very odd to me, as in some settings it is encouraged and in others it isn't mentioned at all, seemingly with no rhyme or reason.

Absolutely my feeling.

It seems there are a significant minority of people here who, for whatever reasons, simply don't want to let this go.

No doubt in some cases this is a proxy for other agendas, for example people who want to keep being able to take time of work, people who don't want to return to their office, or businesses who want to use it as an excuse for maintaining deficient elements of their service.

 

[LAX54]

The simple answer is we are a nation of snowflakes and the snowflakes need to be pandered to otherwise they'll all get upset.

Wandered into a bakery today in a Town near me, but was asked to leave an wait outside ! ( I didn't bother ) seems it was still a MAXIMUM of 2 people at any one time in the shop, another one down the road had the same sign on the window.

 

[102 fan]

Ye Gods!:

Liz Carr calls for theatres to host facemask-only performances

The actress says "theatre should remain accessible" to vulnerable people, as she wins an Olivier Award.

www.bbc.co.uk

How will members of the audience get to the theatre and back?

If they're that frightened, they should stay at home.

 

[Cdd89]

If the argument was that all showings should have those precautions in place then I'd agree that's wholly unreasonable and should be opposed but that doesn't appear to be what's suggested here.

I would have more sympathy to those calling for “face mask screenings” if they showed some leniency toward the other side over the last two years.

Instead, the people calling for this demanded for masks to be legally mandated for everyone — overriding the wishes of individuals or businesses — for as long as they could.

 

[Crossover]

Ye Gods!:

Liz Carr calls for theatres to host facemask-only performances

The actress says "theatre should remain accessible" to vulnerable people, as she wins an Olivier Award.

www.bbc.co.uk

How will members of the audience get to the theatre and back?

Also what a ridiculous request. Theatres have to make money so what if only a few people turn up.

To bolster this, there is a photo of two actresses (Stephanie McKeon and, I think, Samantha Barks) with the caption "Stephanie McKeon (left), who plays Anna in Frozen, previously called on audiences to wear facemasks"
Looking at the later text, it looks like something that this actress said back in October - the situation 6 months ago was very different even then, compared to now - sodding media!

 

[Bikeman78]

I live in Sweden and have been in England for a few days.

The notable difference in my observation is that while in Sweden things have returned to normal, in England it has only gone back to "near normal", with a lot of encouragement/pressure in specific settings for people to wear masks, and still a lot of signage on public transport. It feels very odd to me, as in some settings it is encouraged and in others it isn't mentioned at all, seemingly with no rhyme or reason.

Count yourself lucky you didn't go to Scotland. It's still pretty full on there although many people are ignoring all the rules and signs.

On a more general note, I see that the number of headlines about record cases and hospitals being swamped are creeping up again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2022 ==

If they're that frightened, they should stay at home.

In reality that is probably what they are doing. I can think of two people that are still rather cautious when it comes to Covid. They won't even go out for a meal, let alone sit in a theatre for two hours, regardless of masks or other rules. That is their choice. They seem happy enough to let the rest of the world get on with it.

 

[102 fan]

Count yourself lucky you didn't go to Scotland. It's still pretty full on there although many people are ignoring all the rules and signs.

On a more general note, I see that the number of headlines about record cases and hospitals being swamped are creeping up again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2022 ==


In reality that is probably what they are doing. I can think of two people that are still rather cautious when it comes to Covid. They won't even go out for a meal, let alone sit in a theatre for two hours, regardless of masks or other rules. That is their choice. They seem happy enough to let the rest of the world get on with it.

The thing is, the same people who sit frightened in the house didn't isolate themselves prior to 2019. I know several people who seem to think Covid is the very first respiratory virus.

 

[nw1]

Count yourself lucky you didn't go to Scotland. It's still pretty full on there although many people are ignoring all the rules and signs.

On a more general note, I see that the number of headlines about record cases and hospitals being swamped are creeping up again.

The question is, are the hospitals actually swamped? And if they are, why? I thought a) Omicron was less serious and b) the vaccines reduce the seriousness of illness in any case?

 

[Bikeman78]

The thing is, the same people who sit frightened in the house didn't isolate themselves prior to 2019. I know several people who seem to think Covid is the very first respiratory virus.

I completely agree with you but I'm not going to fall out over it with the people in question. I've never personally been that bothered about it. Any one of a dozen thing could kill me tomorrow. What's the point in hiding away?

 

[ChrisC]

In reality that is probably what they are doing. I can think of two people that are still rather cautious when it comes to Covid. They won't even go out for a meal, let alone sit in a theatre for two hours, regardless of masks or other rules. That is their choice. They seem happy enough to let the rest of the world get on with it.

That's very much how my sister is behaving. She won't go into any crowded places and is still avoiding large shops and wearing a mask when going into her small village Co op. She used to go out for meals regularly but not eaten out for over 2 years now. Before she retired about 5 years ago, she was in charge of a very busy Accident and Emergency department at her local hospital, so I find her current attitude very difficult to understand with her medical knowledge and years of experience.

 

[Richard Scott]

Is it any different to, say, dementia friendly screenings of films or films with subtitles in cinemas? I can't imagine that they're that profitable but cinemas still try to arrange them (at least pre-pandemic anyway!) for those that would benefit from them. I note that she isn't saying that all theatre shows should be socially distanced with face coverings but that a separate performance with those arrangements should be available for those that feel they would benefit from it.

To be honest a cinema can accommodate that with little loss in revenue and no massive increases in costs, Astley can show the film numerous times during the day, but doubt a theatre can with one or two performances per day. Think profits are marginal with a full auditorium.
The other issue is pandering to this is not encouraging people to get on with normal life, afraid some people need a bit of tough love at the moment otherwise will live the rest of their life as a snowflake. Should we really be encouraging that, is that really fair?

 

[MikeWM]

The question is, are the hospitals actually swamped? And if they are, why? I thought a) Omicron was less serious and b) the vaccines reduce the seriousness of illness in any case?

It is a rather good question, and one we never seemed to get a clear answer to last summer when the NHS for months was similarly claiming things were in crisis because the pressure on services was 'as bad as a normal winter', despite there not being much Covid around at all at the time.

 

[cb00]

That's very much how my sister is behaving. She won't go into any crowded places and is still avoiding large shops and wearing a mask when going into her small village Co op. She used to go out for meals regularly but not eaten out for over 2 years now. Before she retired about 5 years ago, she was in charge of a very busy Accident and Emergency department at her local hospital, so I find her current attitude very difficult to understand with her medical knowledge and years of experience.

I'd defer to your sister's experience of the front lines. Those who are medically aware (as opposed to the characters in Whitehall/Downing St) are rightly remaining cautious.

Strangely the same people who think they're too strong to be affected by covid are the same ones who are scared of wearing a mask. Watch the effect it had on Sebastian Vettel at last weekend's F1 race... Lewis Hamilton too. Both raised concerns about the lack of mask wearing.

There are now upwards of 1000 deaths per week where covid is a cause of death on the death certificate. Not to be confused with 'deaths within 28 days of a positive test'. That doesn't include non-covid patients who die because ambulances aren't available to respond to 999 calls as quickly as they should.

 

[DelayRepay]

Also what a ridiculous request. Theatres have to make money so what if only a few people turn up.

I assume this particular actor would be happy to perform for free?

 

[Freightmaster]

I'd defer to your sister's experience of the front lines. Those who are medically aware (as opposed to the characters in Whitehall/Downing St) are rightly remaining cautious.

Strangely the same people who think they're too strong to be affected by covid are the same ones who are scared of wearing a mask. Watch the effect it had on Sebastian Vettel at last weekend's F1 race... Lewis Hamilton too. Both raised concerns about the lack of mask wearing.

There are now upwards of 1000 deaths per week where covid is a cause of death on the death certificate. Not to be confused with 'deaths within 28 days of a positive test'. That doesn't include non-covid patients who die because ambulances aren't available to respond to 999 calls as quickly as they should.

That's all well and good, but the fabric/surgical masks that 99% of the public use wouldn't have saved any
of those 1000 poor souls - the only mitigations which can meaningfully affect the death toll are as follows:


1. making sure the vulnerable/immunosuppressed are up to date with their vaccinations/boosters

2. if you are vulnerable/immunosuppressed, avoid crowded indoor spaces wherever possible.

3. if you are vulnerable/immunosuppressed and have to be in a crowded indoor space, wear a 'proper' (FFP2/3) mask
to protect yourself because other people wearing fabric masks around you makes no difference to transmission and
will give you a false sense of security.




MARK

 

[DerekC]

That's all well and good, but the fabric/surgical masks that 99% of the public use wouldn't have saved any
of those 1000 poor souls - the only mitigations which can meaningfully affect the death toll are as follows:


1. making sure the vulnerable/immunosuppressed are up to date with their vaccinations/boosters

2. if you are vulnerable/immunosuppressed, avoid crowded indoor spaces wherever possible.

3. if you are vulnerable/immunosuppressed and have to be in a crowded indoor space, wear a 'proper' (FFP2/3) mask
to protect yourself because other people wearing fabric masks around you makes no difference to transmission and
will give you a false sense of security.




MARK

Glad to have your opinion and even more glad that I can ignore it if I want to. I see the echo chamber is still going pretty strong!

 

[L401CJF]

Since the mask rule was reintroduced, i havnt worn one unless forced to (by my employer etc). Since they have been fully dropped in both England and Wales, I've not worn one full stop, I dont actually own one now.

Nipped to specsavers 2 weeks ago for an eye test (in England) and was offered one as I entered. I politely declined, no problem, in you go etc. Went back today to collect my glasses from the same store to be told I wasnt allowed in unless I took one and wore it! Very bizzare. Is it actually enforceable these days? If I hadn't already paid 2 weeks ago and been collecting my purchase I would have politely declined again and gone to a different place! Surely its time to just move on now?

I'm pretty certain theres more chance of walking to the shop and getting killed by a car than there is of nipping to the job and being killed by a virus that might happen to be lurking in there, but maybe thats just me!

My auntie in her 60s is one of the overly cautious folk mentioned earlier, been hiding at home for the last 2 years, masked and jabbed to high heaven. Couldnt be any more cautious. Yet she still caught it a couple of months ago, had a bit of a flu for a few days, full recovery, yet still afraid to go outdoors

 

[seagull]

Glad to have your opinion and even more glad that I can ignore it if I want to. I see the echo chamber is still going pretty strong!

Do enlighten us, oh wise one, as to which of his statements were incorrect?

 

[Stan_Butler]

Since the mask rule was reintroduced, i havnt worn one unless forced to (by my employer etc). Since they have been fully dropped in both England and Wales, I've not worn one full stop, I dont actually own one now.

Nipped to specsavers 2 weeks ago for an eye test (in England) and was offered one as I entered. I politely declined, no problem, in you go etc. Went back today to collect my glasses from the same store to be told I wasnt allowed in unless I took one and wore it! Very bizzare. Is it actually enforceable these days? If I hadn't already paid 2 weeks ago and been collecting my purchase I would have politely declined again and gone to a different place! Surely its time to just move on now?

I'm pretty certain theres more chance of walking to the shop and getting killed by a car than there is of nipping to the job and being killed by a virus that might happen to be lurking in there, but maybe thats just me!

My auntie in her 60s is one of the overly cautious folk mentioned earlier, been hiding at home for the last 2 years, masked and jabbed to high heaven. Couldnt be any more cautious. Yet she still caught it a couple of months ago, had a bit of a flu for a few days, full recovery, yet still afraid to go outdoors

I don’t understand your post. Have you not worn a mask full stop since the rules we removed in England and Wales or did you wear one in specsaves as you were collecting a purchase you had paid for 2 weeks ago?

 

[Richard Scott]

Glad to have your opinion and even more glad that I can ignore it if I want to. I see the echo chamber is still going pretty strong!

To be honest I believe that to be factually correct and not an opinion.

 

[Freightmaster]

Glad to have your opinion and even more glad that I can ignore it if I want to. I see the echo chamber is still going pretty strong!

As per other replies, my post consisted of three proven ways to reduce hospitalisations and prevent deaths, rather than personal opinion.


From the tone of your reply, it sounds like you are planning to "ignore" my perfectly sensible suggestions to protect vulnerable
members of society from becoming seriously ill due to Covid, which implies that you must have other ideas as to how to best
protect the elderly and immunosuppressed from the worst effects of Covid; but instead of sharing them with the rest of us,
you seem to prefer to make dismissive comments about "echo chambers" rather than making the effort to provide an alternative
viewpoint by posting counterarguments against any of the specific suggestions that I/others have made in this thread.




MARK

 

[DelayRepay]

Nipped to specsavers 2 weeks ago for an eye test (in England) and was offered one as I entered. I politely declined, no problem, in you go etc. Went back today to collect my glasses from the same store to be told I wasnt allowed in unless I took one and wore it! Very bizzare. Is it actually enforceable these days? If I hadn't already paid 2 weeks ago and been collecting my purchase I would have politely declined again and gone to a different place! Surely its time to just move on now?

Specsavers do seem to be a bit behind the times. My local one still has a table blocking the door and makes people wait in the street for their appointment time. Needless to say I will be finding a different opticians when my eye test is due in a couple of months.

 

[GC class B1]

Glad to have your opinion and even more glad that I can ignore it if I want to. I see the echo chamber is still going pretty strong!

When even the respected Professor Spectre says that surgical masks have little or no effect in reducing transmission of COVID then I think that is fact not opinion.

 

[L401CJF]

I don’t understand your post. Have you not worn a mask full stop since the rules we removed in England and Wales or did you wear one in specsaves as you were collecting a purchase you had paid for 2 weeks ago?

Sorry, I'll clarify - personally since the rule has been dropped, I have not worn a mask - except when made to yesterday

Specsavers had a little desk by the door with a member of staff stood at it, checking you in for the appointment so to speak. When I went for the eye test 2 weeks ago they asked if I would like a mask and offered a disposable one out of a box. I said no thanks, and that was fine.

Returned to the same store yesterday to collect the glasses, was offered a mask again, said no thanks, only to be told it wasn't optional and if I didnt wear one I wasn't allowed in. As I'd already forked out for the glasses I didn't really have a choice other than to take a mask and wear it. Im just making the point that if rules have been dropped and it was fine to politely decline a mask 2 weeks ago why is it now none optional in the same store!

 

[VauxhallandI]

Sorry, I'll clarify - personally since the rule has been dropped, I have not worn a mask - except when made to yesterday

Specsavers had a little desk by the door with a member of staff stood at it, checking you in for the appointment so to speak. When I went for the eye test 2 weeks ago they asked if I would like a mask and offered a disposable one out of a box. I said no thanks, and that was fine.

Returned to the same store yesterday to collect the glasses, was offered a mask again, said no thanks, only to be told it wasn't optional and if I didnt wear one I wasn't allowed in. As I'd already forked out for the glasses I didn't really have a choice other than to take a mask and wear it. Im just making the point that if rules have been dropped and it was fine to politely decline a mask 2 weeks ago why is it now none optional in the same store!

I’ve been in to Specsavers four times in the last two years and they’ve been unsuccessful in making me wear a mask.

 

[seagull]

Went to Specsavers a few days ago to find the table+masks+wait outside setup. So went to a nearby smaller independent opticians who had no such silliness. And in fact whose prices were virtually the same, too.

 

[nw1]

A genuine question for those who wish to see restrictions continue though (and I'm not saying everyone who has posted on here would agree with all the restrictions and measures I mention below)... for how long? It's April 2022 now; more than two years after this all started.

Given Covid is with us long-term should we (the world, not the UK specifically) continue with things such as, for example, vaccine passports or negative tests to visit bars and restaurants, and testing/proof of recent vaccination to enter overseas countries, indefinitely?

Is Covid so dangerous that such measures are worthwhile implementing long term, even if there are very significant economic consequences (and thus effects on people's livelihoods and poverty)? Is it so dangerous that people should feel guilty if they want to go out and meet people, or go into work, if they have a runny nose, minor cough or headache? Should people be morally obliged to test before doing such activities, and morally obliged to isolate for 10 days every time they test positive (which could perhaps be every few months)?

Such measures might have been appropriate during the past two years in the medium term, but to continue indefinitely - is it really worth it or will the "least worst outcome" be that we go back to normal, and those who are genuinely worried about Covid take their own personal measures to protect themselves?

AFAIK there was no talk of continuing measures and restrictions well into the 1920s in the wake of the (significantly more serious) Spanish flu.

 

[bramling]

A genuine question for those who wish to see restrictions continue though (and I'm not saying everyone who has posted on here would agree with all the restrictions and measures I mention below)... for how long? It's April 2022 now; more than two years after this all started.

Given Covid is with us long-term should we (the world, not the UK specifically) continue with things such as, for example, vaccine passports or negative tests to visit bars and restaurants, and testing/proof of recent vaccination to enter overseas countries, indefinitely?

Is Covid so dangerous that such measures are worthwhile implementing long term, even if there are very significant economic consequences (and thus effects on people's livelihoods and poverty)? Is it so dangerous that people should feel guilty if they want to go out and meet people, or go into work, if they have a runny nose, minor cough or headache? Should people be morally obliged to test before doing such activities, and morally obliged to isolate for 10 days every time they test positive (which could perhaps be every few months)?

Such measures might have been appropriate during the past two years in the medium term, but to continue indefinitely - is it really worth it or will the "least worst outcome" be that we go back to normal, and those who are genuinely worried about Covid take their own personal measures to protect themselves?

AFAIK there was no talk of continuing measures and restrictions well into the 1920s in the wake of the (significantly more serious) Spanish flu.

One of the few sensible things to have emanated from Johnson has been the “if not now, then when?” question.

There certainly are people who would respond with forever, though.