Underage teenagers filmed by LNER guard when issuing Unpaid Fares Notice

[Feuillesmortes]

www.tiktok.com/@edenfaith25/video/7092084677850221830

Tiktok shows teenagers filmed by LNER guard when issuing Unpaid Fares Notice. The journey was London to Doncaster and they were apparently asked to pay £300.

• What does Restricted ticket mean?
• Do guards routinely film passengers for ticketing issues?

 

[6Gman]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7092084677850221830

Tiktok shows teenagers filmed by LNER guard when issuing Unpaid Fares Notice. The journey was London to Doncaster and they were apparently asked to pay £300.

• What does Restricted ticket mean?
• Do guards routinely film passengers for ticketing issues?

Restricted could have several explanations: operator specific; off-peak on a peak service; advance ticket for a specific train being used on a different train.
I doubt they film routinely but they may well do so under certain circumstances.

It must be said that the tiktok clip doesn't really explain what actually happened!

 

[yorkie]

www.tiktok.com/@edenfaith25/video/7092084677850221830

Tiktok shows teenagers filmed by LNER guard when issuing Unpaid Fares Notice. The journey was London to Doncaster and they were apparently asked to pay £300.

• What does Restricted ticket mean?
• Do guards routinely film passengers for ticketing issues?

Under age for what? Are they saying they are under 16 and should have been issued with child tickets?

There is insufficient information to comment on this case.

How many passengers did 300 pounds cover the fares for, and what day/time was the journey?

Three passengers would be about right for that sort of money, if new tickets were issued at the full adult price.

It looks like both parties obtained photographic evidence of the encounter.

 

[methecooldude]

I agree we are only seeing a tiny snapshot of what happened, and considering they got issued a UFN, the recording was probably to make sure all was done correctly.

 

[Volvictof]

Probably a good job she did film as clearly they are wanting to cause trouble. It says underneath the video “#getherfired”
Their age is completely irrelevant to body worn video. Do they expect LNER to turn off the trains CCTV whenever a person under 16 gets on the train?

 

[Adam Williams]

How many passengers did 300 pounds cover the fares for, and what day/time was the journey?

I assume it's this one https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C46113/2022-05-02/detailed

Train 1H10, KGX->DON. The UFN seemingly was issued after the guard discovered the ticket was invalid at 17:49, according to the photo at the end of the Tiktok.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Filming indecent images of children is (rightly) illegal.

Filming fully clothed children in a public place might be a bit freaky if done by a random person but is not illegal.

Looks like some kids who "know their rights" but actually don't. Utter failure of the "attitude test" - if it were me and company policy allowed, I'd be pulling out the MG11 pad.

Body worn CCTV is increasingly the norm for traincrew, the "filming" will have been this.

 

[yorkie]

In that case my guess would be they had a Hull Trains only ticket; if there were 3 of them travelling then the cost would be over 300 quid.

Hull Trains Only tickets would not be deemed to be excessable and therefore new tickets would be issued.

It's also possible they held Super Off Peak Return tickets routed Any Permitted; these tickets are excessable but only if both portions are excessed and that would again be over 100 quid each (if going one way at peak time, it is cheaper to issue new tickets and leave the originals unused)

Maybe they had Advance fares for the wrong train but still with LNER, but I have seen LNER guards issue excess fares for this, though doing it 'by the book' would result in new tickets being issued. This would be very harsh though.

... if it were me and company policy allowed, I'd be pulling out the MG11 pad.

My guess would be they are probably aged about 16 or 17, so a prosecution is unlikely and therefore probably no point issuing an MG11.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Under age for what? Are they saying they are under 16 and should have been issued with child tickets?

I think it's more about the data privacy issues of associating face pictures to their address.

How many passengers did 300 pounds cover the fares for, and what day/time was the journey?

Weekday 17:49 I think based on what I can see.

 

[6Gman]

Filming indecent images of children is (rightly) illegal.

Filming fully clothed children in a public place might be a bit freaky if done by a random person but is not illegal.

Looks like some kids who "know their rights" but actually don't. Utter failure of the "attitude test" - if it were me and company policy allowed, I'd be pulling out the MG11 pad.

Body worn CCTV is increasingly the norm for traincrew, the "filming" will have been this.

I had the misfortune to end up on the general tiktok page of the person who posted her indignation.

She doesn't seem too troubled by being filmed and being seen by other people.

I think it's more about the data privacy issues of associating face pictures to their address.


Weekday 17:49 I think based on what I can see.

Can you explain what you mean by "associating face pictures to their address" ?

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Looks like some kids who "know their rights" but actually don't. Utter failure of the "attitude test" - if it were me and company policy allowed, I'd be pulling out the MG11 pad.

Quite likely that they did fail the attitude test but also possible that they were impeccably mannered during the interaction, and made the video afterwards in order to get likes / advice.

Can you explain what you mean by "associating face pictures to their address" ?

Just that the video says "Filmed us while asking for our address"

 

[Starmill]

Do guards routinely film passengers for ticketing issues?

Guards and revenue staff frequently film or record audio (or both) interactions with passengers using body worn cameras. That could include anyone on the train.

 

[D365]

Guards and revenue staff frequently film or record audio (or both) interactions with passengers using body worn cameras. That could include anyone on the train.

Not sure why, to the individuals under discussion here, this comes as a surprise. I'd bet that they are more than familiar with the idea of public-facing workers carrying body cameras.

 

[Volvictof]

She doesn't seem too troubled by being filmed and being seen by other people.

It is amazing how many people have a big problem with someone filming for security reasons, that will probably never be watched by anyone, but completely happy to plaster theirselves online for anyone in the world to see.

I wear Body Worn Video occasionally, and it’s usually when dealing with kids and teens committing anti social behaviour. I feel a lot more comfortable knowing that if they decide to make any allegations of improper behaviour, I have the video to protect myself.

 

[AlterEgo]

Perfectly okay for the filming to be happening. Back in the old days a copper would have turned up and it would have been sorted “informally”.

 

[danielcanning]

Perfectly okay for the filming to be happening. Back in the old days a copper would have turned up and it would have been sorted “informally”.

When you say ‘informally’, what you actually mean is a bit of old fashioned police brutality?

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Hull Trains Only tickets would not be deemed to be excessable and therefore new tickets would be issued.

I can see that that would appear harsh / jobsworthy for someone who doesn't know about trains. At 17:49 the train would not have even reached Peterborough so perhaps it would have been better to let them join the correct train there.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Somewhat ironic that somebody who is so averse to being filmed then immediately films themselves and uploads it to Tiktok.

 

[lachlan]

I can see that that would appear harsh / jobsworthy for someone who doesn't know about trains. At 17:49 the train would not have even reached Peterborough so perhaps it would have been better to let them join the correct train there.

Agreed. Harsh enforcement especially on youg people could permanently put them off rail travel. Though I think it's perfectly fair for the staff member to film.

 

[43066]

www.tiktok.com/@edenfaith25/video/7092084677850221830

Tiktok shows teenagers filmed by LNER guard when issuing Unpaid Fares Notice. The journey was London to Doncaster and they were apparently asked to pay £300.

• What does Restricted ticket mean?
• Do guards routinely film passengers for ticketing issues?

Not sure I like the implication being made by the thread title, seeming to suggest there’s something improper about a staff member filming people who are “underage” albeit not giving any context or specifying what exactly they’re underage for. Apparently these individuals were not too young to be travelling on their own and committing ticketing irregularities. This kind of nonsensical video uploaded by vindictive attention seekers, with absolutely no redress, is exactly the reason why many staff feel the need to wear body cams.

I can see that that would appear harsh / jobsworthy for someone who doesn't know about trains. At 17:49 the train would not have even reached Peterborough so perhaps it would have been better to let them join the correct train there.

So anyone getting onto a train without a correct ticket could simply say “I didn’t realise, I don’t know about trains” and get off Scott free? Can you honestly not see any issues with that strategy?

 

[AlterEgo]

When you say ‘informally’, what you actually mean is a bit of old fashioned police brutality?

No, these are girls, they’d have been taken home to their mums and dads who would have given them a good hiding. (Or not)

 

[Fokx]

I can see that that would appear harsh / jobsworthy for someone who doesn't know about trains. At 17:49 the train would not have even reached Peterborough so perhaps it would have been better to let them join the correct train there.

You can’t just dump minors in the middle of nowhere (Peterborough be somewhere to us, but it’s nowhere to them)

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Not sure I like the implication being made by the thread title

The thread title was meant as a description of the video using her words rather than mine, but fair point, it might have been more neutral to write "minor".

This kind of nonsensical video uploaded by vindictive attention seekers, with absolutely no redress, is exactly the reason why many staff feel the need to wear body cams.

That said, it's the body cam (rather than the UFN) that seems to have annoyed this passenger, so if the guard had decided not to press the button on the cam, the tiktok might not have been made.

So anyone getting onto a train without a correct ticket could simply say “I didn’t realise, I don’t know about trains” and get off Scott free? Can you honestly not see any issues with that strategy?

I can see some issues with that strategy, but in many similar cases the railway does show discretion

 

[Bertie the bus]

That said, it's the body cam (rather than the UFN) that seems to have annoyed this passenger, so if the guard had decided not to press the button on the cam, the tiktok might not have been made.

Another couple of possibilities for why they posted that video are they are the sort who love to portray themselves as victims when they are the ones in the wrong (see the #did #nothing #wrong), and/or they are rather unpleasant, vindictive people who want to get revenge after getting caught doing something wrong, hence the #getherfired.

As the Tiktok video isn’t going to supply us with the answer as to their motive I don’t suppose we will ever know.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

The young people felt they were entitled not to be filmed, on account of their age. They are wrong. And that's about it, really!

 

[johnny_t]

Another couple of possibilities for why they posted that video are they are the sort who love to portray themselves as victims when they are the ones in the wrong (see the #did #nothing #wrong), and/or they are rather unpleasant, vindictive people who want to get revenge after getting caught doing something wrong, hence the #getherfired.

As the Tiktok video isn’t going to supply us with the answer as to their motive I don’t suppose we will ever know.

Agreed. The only reason that they have thrown around the word 'underage' is to try and imply something sinister is going on rather than just take it on the chin.

 

[RPI]

I can see that that would appear harsh / jobsworthy for someone who doesn't know about trains. At 17:49 the train would not have even reached Peterborough so perhaps it would have been better to let them join the correct train there.

Then it would be "underage kids thrown off at Peterborough".

 

[Davester50]

Another person who thinks they know all about their rights, but displaying absolutely zero about their responsibilities.
Such is the world these days sadly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another person who thinks they know all about their rights, but displaying absolutely zero about their responsibilities.
Such is the world these days sadly.

I must admit I find it amusing when it turns out that someone who "knows their rights" doesn't, and is dragged off in handcuffs/PFed/whatever.

 

[matt_world2004]

I actually learned nothing as to what their grievance was in that video. It seems just two girls singing and angry they got an unpaired fares notice??