Scotrail RMT strike action and possible temporary service cuts to a third of services

[Watershed]

OK but that probably wouldn't apply to Scotrail. Presuming ASLEF have an agreement in place to allow drivers to retire earlier than 67.

Other TOCs have EJRAs, so it's not out of the question.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Yeah. Whilst I feel most for those people who now can’t get to work at the times they want to (or now have to put up with a two hour gap in the evening), this is going to be quite devastating for lots of areas around the highlands during the summer.

It’s a very popular tourist destination and the service is already infrequent that people need to plan carefully. When there’s now, for example, no evening service from Ft William southbound - those four carriages of people are likely just not going to travel at all now leaving the local businesses around those stations with a massive cut in custom, which could be enough to send them over the edge in an already difficult economic situation. Scotland certainly seems to be doing its best to stop its economy from recovering….

Citylink will be rubbing their hands in glee.

There’s a coach service which I think is quicker than the train.

 

[matacaster]

Not apocalyptic but 20% is a big number.

I could add that if

Revenue nationwide is currently at 81%. Not quite as apocalyptic as some (not saying you personally) people like to make out.

I suspect that if your salary was suddenly reduced to 81% of its current amount you would perhaps see the reduction in a quite different light.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that if your salary was suddenly reduced to 81% of its current amount you would perhaps see the reduction in a quite different light.

Other than the effects of inflation, which is hitting everyone, nobody is proposing giving the staff 19% pay cuts, are they?

 

[muz379]

I suspect that if your salary was suddenly reduced to 81% of its current amount you would perhaps see the reduction in a quite different light.

was that not the reality for plenty of people that got furloughed during the pandemic ?

 

[LoogaBarooga]

was that not the reality for plenty of people that got furloughed during the pandemic ?

Yes but they didn't have to work. I'd gladly not work for 80% of my railway salary.

 

[choochoochoo]

Yes but they didn't have to work. I'd gladly not work for 80% of my railway salary.

True, as would I.

But wasn't there a maximum amount you could get on furlough ? Something around the 30k mark.

I'd rather work for my full salary as 30K is not near 81% of it.

 

[66701GBRF]

True, as would I.

But wasn't there a maximum amount you could get on furlough ? Something around the 30k mark.

I'd rather work for my full salary as 30K is not near 81% of it.

£2500 per month was the cap *for the scheme itself...not sure how that worked with the railway having 13 pay cycles.

*Some companies chose to top up the remaining shortfall to 100%.

 

[Falcon1200]

Over 150 cancellations today alone – including four in a row from Central to Ayr, and seemingly random diagrams almost everywhere else.

Yet, on the Neilston branch whose service is, like so many others, utterly savaged from Monday, one cancellation yesterday and none so far today !

Anyway, I have emailed my MSP and await his response with interest.

 

[Ex-controller]

Yet, on the Neilston branch whose service is, like so many others, utterly savaged from Monday, one cancellation yesterday and none so far today !

Anyway, I have emailed my MSP and await his response with interest.

Likely a shortage of Ayr drivers that have had that impact. If a driver diagram has to be ‘patched up’ (ie different bits worked by different drivers) then it’s easier to do so with a Neilston working given they’re away from Central for a shorter period.

These are the sort of considerations that will be going into covering the service at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 May 2022 ==

The opposition in Scotland will happily side with the staff when a 10% pay increase is requested.
The opposition in Scotland routinely complain about annual fare increases (always at a lower % than in England) and regularly demand that fares be slashed.
This is simply opposition for oppositions sake and, in the real world, money has to come from somewhere. No-one seems able to suggest where it should come from.
We are all (unless you're wealthy) going to have a dreadful few years but train staff start off in a much better position financially than most.
I have no idea what the solution is but getting round the table for constructive discussion is surely better than industrial action (for everyone, rail staff included).
Aslef might do so but I suspect the RMT won't - the language the RMT use is from the 1970s, Aslef seem much more measured.
Just some idle thoughts.

The likelihood is that it won’t be a 10% increase when agreement is reached but the drivers have to set their stall out for negotiations and are hardly likely to set the bar low. Inflation in April was 9% so it’s not a particularly unreasonable position.

 

[nanstallon]

Between them, SNP, the nationalised operator and RMT have shafted Scottish railways. I shall not be going north for my summer holiday.

 

[Dunnideer]

Between them, SNP, the nationalised operator and RMT have shafted Scottish railways.

What has the RMT to do with an ASLEF driver dispute?

 

[PaulMc7]

I've always been bus over train due to my journeys but being realistic this will cause issues for at the very least the next 2 years IMO. Mass recruiting now won't even fix things quickly due to the amount of training needed and you can't exactly fast track that due to the nature and responsibilities the job comes with. Could they have scheduled things a little better? Yes absolutely but regardless of who is in charge this was always going to cause issues eventually.

It's something that should have been addressed years ago. I don't like the SNP either but when the Tories and Labour are the next options the bar is astronomically low.

The fact Covid and Brexit happened at once doesn't help either and then rail replacement absolutely isn't guaranteed given how short of drivers bus operators are too. This is unfortunately the world we live in and there's no quick fix.

 

[choochoochoo]

Just out of interest, how many TOCs in the UK are now due pay talks/review following their 'deferral' over the last 2 pandemic years ? Can't seem to find that info on the ASLEF site as easily as I used to.

I know GTR (Thameslink/Great Northern) were due a review in 2020, that has been 'deferred' (messroom rumours suggest management are claiming they were cancelled not postponed, which may open more cans of worms).

Trying to scope out the potential for disruption south of the border when drivers this side start taking similar action.

Will also be interesting to see result of RMT ballot sent to railway staff.

As I said previously, a summer of discontent seems to be on the horizon.

 

[eoff]

Just had a look at the timetable. No Edinburgh festival evening events for me if this carries on.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Just had a look at the timetable. No Edinburgh festival evening events for me if this carries on.

There's no chance that'll be allowed to happen. 150th open is on in St Andrews in the middle of July also.

It'll all be sorted out long before that.

 

[AY1975]

Am I reading the temporary timetable correctly that there's no train from Fort William back to Glasgow after the 11.40am?

Yes, and the only train from Mallaig to Glasgow will be at 06.03! After that there are no trains from Mallaig all day (apart from the "Jacobite") until the 18.15 to Fort William!

 

[alangla]

Station info boards and a matching announcement this evening said “Last trains may be cancelled and alternative transport may not be available” so it seems stranding passengers is now policy.
I thought that was totally against the conditions of carriage?

 

[FtoE]

Yes, and the only train from Mallaig to Glasgow will be at 06.03! After that there are no trains from Mallaig all day (apart from the "Jacobite") until the 18.15 to Fort William!

I’m afraid it rather cements my view that services outwith the ‘seven cities’ hourglass are treated as little more than tourist novelties as opposed to a vital part of the infrastructure in remote areas.

 

[Watershed]

I’m afraid it rather cements my view that services outwith the ‘seven cities’ hourglass are treated as little more than tourist novelties as opposed to a vital part of the infrastructure in remote areas.

It's more than this is a resource-led cutback. With Mallaig depot having 2 diagrams for example, there isn't a lot of choice as to how you can cut back services - bearing in mind that this timetable is likely to persist for some time, so units still need to balance and rotate, traincrew still need to keep up their route knowledge, and so on and so forth.

 

[kez19]

Not that I much use Scotrail but it seems they are in a pickle for people catching last trains back to Dundee etc are up creek, it seems to be if people miss their connection from coming from England to head further north will have no option to either check in to a hotel or get the bus?

I tried to understand the new timetable from the Dundee end to Glasgow/Edinburgh but did I read it right that there was still more frequent services to Edinburgh to that of Glasgow? (it looked to me as if coming from Aberdeen or the Dundee local to Glasgow was more sporatic? - correct me).

I still think this will put more people to use megabus/citylink or train alternatives LNER/XC.

 

[Watershed]

Station info boards and a matching announcement this evening said “Last trains may be cancelled and alternative transport may not be available” so it seems stranding passengers is now policy.
I thought that was totally against the conditions of carriage?

It is, but what are you going to do about it? Sue ScotRail every time they strand you?

TOCs can effectively adopt these positions with immunity. The regulator couldn't care less.

 

[Deltic1961]

Or people just won't go to leisure activities where they have no way of getting home easily.

This is going to have a major impact on the festival, theatres, concerts and the wider hospitality sector.

How this teporary timetable even got off the starting block simply amazes me. And they want Scotland to be a country operating fully on it's own with these people in charge .......

 

[jayah]

It's OVERTIME !

How is is anyone else's fault other than the TOC that there isn't enough staff to cover normal working.

How many times has this been said. The railway runs on overtime and the goodwill of its staff.

Even in the Twitter post. ScotRail freely admitted they do not have enough staff.

If there was adequate staffing. Then the effect of removing rest day working would be zero.

It is impossible when it takes four times the notice period to train a driver, they can choose not to work on Sundays and the requirement to have both route and traction knowledge means that even relatively minor timetable changes generate hundreds of hours of retraining requirements.

It only ever worked when there was a monopoly buyer of labour and very low wages such that overtime would not be refused.

 

[kez19]

Or people just won't go to leisure activities where they have no way of getting home easily.

This is going to have a major impact on the festival, theatres, concerts and the wider hospitality sector.

How this teporary timetable even got off the starting block simply amazes me. And they want Scotland to be a country operating fully on it's own with these people in charge .......

The thing is do the people in charge/made the timetable(s) use the trains themselves or do they just use the car? Its similar at times to me when bus companies change their timetables.

 

[PaulMc7]

Or people just won't go to leisure activities where they have no way of getting home easily.

This is going to have a major impact on the festival, theatres, concerts and the wider hospitality sector.

How this teporary timetable even got off the starting block simply amazes me. And they want Scotland to be a country operating fully on it's own with these people in charge .......

I don't like the SNP but staying in this "union" with the Tories in charge? I'd rather not given the mess we've already put up with

 

[Starmill]

I wonder if the company will be providing taxis or hotels for the night and travel the following morning to all of the people who have already got bookings for cancelled services in the evening, as they are obliged to do?

I bet they don't. It's extremely poor form.

 

[ComUtoR]

It is impossible when it takes four times the notice period to train a driver, they can choose not to work on Sundays and the requirement to have both route and traction knowledge means that even relatively minor timetable changes generate hundreds of hours of retraining requirements.

It only ever worked when there was a monopoly buyer of labour and very low wages such that overtime would not be refused.

This is a classic example of where change is needed and a classic example of its too hard, so we won't do it.

Recruitment should be proactive. Look forward to where you may need staff in the future and start planning and training. Generally this is what happens. TOCs do not wait for a Driver to leave, or hand in their notice, then then recruit for a replacement. That would be incredibly stupid, and doesn't happen. Notice periods are a bit of a Red Herring. So, to be honest, is route and traction knowledge. The timetable changes but routes at a Depot don't often change at the same time. Personally, I've had the same route card for about 10yrs at least. Even with all the changes at my Depot, the route card is pretty consistent. A few diversionaries drop off now and then but its just a quick refresher day. Again, that would be a management issue if the Timetable is constantly causing route and traction issues. I fully accept that a TOC can have spikes where there is dramatic change but again, poor planning leads to poor performance. Everyone knew that Covid would have an impact. Some TOCs to steps to protect that future. Some clearly took a different approach.

We have been saying it for years. Rosters are not robust enough. "The Railway" needs to take a dramatic shift away from how things are done and how inflexible they are. This ScotRail debacle really does highlight that change is needed. Give them 10% but with heavy caveats.

Overtime because wages are low is a false economy. If you have the ability to pay the overtime then you are still effectively spending the same money. Low wages means that staff will look elsewhere and potentially leave for a higher wage. This will have a negative impact because you will need to replace them. You are also reliant on those staff. The second they say no, we get to this point and the impact on your business is again, detrimental.

I come from a Retail background. The theory with a lot of their staffing is that you pay less but have more staff. Two staff on 20hr contracts are considered to be better than a single member of staff on 40hrs. One store I worked in had near a hundred members of staff on the books. Our flexibility was through the roof. If anyone went sick you could always find cover. Holidays, training, seasonal work, everything got covered. Another store I worked at only had a handful of staff and we suffered when anyone went sick and I had to go cap in hand trying to get people to work.

Rail staff tend to have high wages so are less incentivised to work overtime but they are also working full time, restricted hours and conditions, subject to all kinds of rules, procedures and policies etc., so trying to get someone in to work can be challenging at times.

It's not easy, but not impossible.

 

[alangla]

How this teporary timetable even got off the starting block simply amazes me. And they want Scotland to be a country operating fully on it's own with these people in charge .......

Probably because they literally just took the one they used last time services were slashed and re-used it. What’s possibly a more interesting question is why a) this week’s TT increase wasn’t pulled when it became obvious that there wasn’t a hope in hell of delivering it b) why this carnage has been allowed to run for as long before a temporary TT was considered and c) why we’re about to head into another weekend with no idea what, if anything, especially on Sunday, will run. As has been said elsewhere, 2021’s never ending guard/TE dispute probably provides an indication that this won’t be short term.

 

[Starmill]

It's just so, so embarrassing that after only a week they're having to cut this deeply. The negative headlines are endless.