Activists and human rights

[matacaster]

Is too much credence given to what activists think? They, self-appointed think tanks are invited by bbc and guardian in particular to comment on pretty much every topic. But are they in any way representative of anything but a tiny minority of the population and is this influence undue and corrosive?
I am not saying campaigning or human rights are a bad thing, just that the by claiming human rights of a relatively few people have been denied social media is used to pressure govt etc. However, the possible equally valid human rights of the vast majority (to whom there is often a substantial cost) often seem to get ignored by pretty much everybody.

 

[birchesgreen]

You mean activists like Farage and his fellow right wing grifters? Yes, on TV far too much.

 

[Gloster]

The various groups may be the only ones who are informed about the reality of issues: most people don’t have the time, energy or sources to inform themselves. You need to differentiate between those groups that are being generally impartial (they may have a broad agenda, but on the detail and facts they are being fair) and those who are solely concerned to push one point of view and abandon any impartiality in order to make their view the accepted one. It is difficult to choose correctly which is which all the time and even the best intentioned organisation will get it wrong sometimes. Personally, I think that the BBC makes a better job of it than most. Do you want everybody deciding on things they know nothing about, or should we allow those who do know about a subject to inform us so that we can make a more informed decision of we have to?

You, like most people, will almost know about matters where your factual knowledge is different to a widely accepted view. Would you just let people decide without trying to inform them of the situation?

 

[matacaster]

You mean activists like Farage and his fellow right wing grifters? Yes, on TV far too much.

I have no particular groups in mind, but as an example of the press and social media having undue influence on the authorities, perhaps a case of one missing child having £12m pounds spent trying to find her... I wonder how much is spent on average looking for a missing child, particularly one from a poor or ethnic background?

 

[Mikw]

You mean activists like Farage and his fellow right wing grifters? Yes, on TV far too much.

Couldn't agree more. Pretending to represent the working glass, these fabulously wealthy individuals try to make them vote against their own interests

 

[MotCO]

Couldn't agree more. Pretending to represent the working glass, these fabulously wealthy individuals try to make them vote against their own interests

That statement could apply just as equally to Tony Blair.

 

[kermit]

Taking a wider perspective, the whole concept of Human Rights - that an individual human life has worth, and should be respected in law - is a really new thing. For a huge proportion of the world's population, in China, Russia, much of the Middle East, North Korea etc, universal Human Rights, applicable equally to every person, simply do not exist. Little wonder then that there is fertile ground for debate about precisely how they should be put into practice. But thank your lucky stars that they are enshrined in law, however imperfect they may be, to defend you as much as anybody else. Don't need them? Try being (metaphorical) cannon fodder in North Korea. Human Rights are well worth a bit of irritation at people testing out their applicability in some possibly obscure circumstances.

 

[najaB]

am not saying campaigning or human rights are a bad thing, just that the by claiming human rights of a relatively few people have been denied social media is used to pressure govt etc. However, the possible equally valid human rights of the vast majority (to whom there is often a substantial cost) often seem to get ignored by pretty much everybody.

Not sure I understand the point you're making, any specific examples?

 

[dosxuk]

Not sure I understand the point you're making

I sounds like "I don't want to hear from these people who don't agree with my views" argument.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I have no particular groups in mind, but as an example of the press and social media having undue influence on the authorities, perhaps a case of one missing child having £12m pounds spent trying to find her... I wonder how much is spent on average looking for a missing child, particularly one from a poor or ethnic background?

Speaking of a particular missing child, the entire media hype was very carefully orchestrated. The McCanns have never been shy about the amount of money spent on PR purposes, and a cynic might argue that it was done so that they would avoid charges relating to the fact that the children were left alone.

If she had been from a poor minority family, it's unlikely anyone would have even paid attention.

 

[Mikw]

That statement could apply just as equally to Tony Blair.

It could, but i don't recall us losing any rights under Blair.

 

[MotCO]

It could, but i don't recall us losing any rights under Blair.

He gave away our rights for a budget rebate from the EU for nothing in exchange. He gave away our rights to control our borders by giving unfettered access to citizens of new members of the EU in Eastern Europe. He would ike to give away our independence by rejoining the EU. He tried to give away our right for an independent currency and all that entails, but was frustrated (fortunately) by his Chancellor, Gordon Brown.

And that's just for starters.

 

[Dent]

He gave away our rights for a budget rebate from the EU for nothing in exchange. He gave away our rights to control our borders by giving unfettered access to citizens of new members of the EU in Eastern Europe. He would ike to give away our independence by rejoining the EU. He tried to give away our right for an independent currency and all that entails, but was frustrated (fortunately) by his Chancellor, Gordon Brown.

And that's just for starters.

None of those things are human rights.

 

[MotCO]

None of those things are human rights.

I was responding to post #5, which makes no reference to human rights.

 

[Dent]

I was responding to post #5, which makes no reference to human rights.

The post you quoted clearly referred to rights, which none of the things you refer to are.

 

[MotCO]

The post you quoted clearly referred to rights, which none of the things you refer to are.

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree.

 

[alex397]

He would ike to give away our independence by rejoining the EU..

Rejoining the EU won’t mean losing our independence. When we were in the EU, we were always an independent sovereign state.

I’m not a big fan of Blair, but his government made many improvements to the general quality of life in the UK. Certainly opposite to the current government.

 

[Mikw]

The post you quoted clearly referred to rights, which none of the things you refer to are.

Yes, i was bemused by the reply to my post as well, it seemed to be addressing it (albeit not about human rights though), but then (when questioned) it was supposed to be a reply to somebody's elses....

 

[najaB]

He gave away our rights to control our borders by giving unfettered access to citizens of new members of the EU in Eastern Europe.

The UK, like all EU member states, could have controlled our borders while remaining part of the EU.

But don't let facts get in the way of a rant.

 

[KenA]

The UK, like all EU member states, could have controlled our borders while remaining part of the EU.

But don't let facts get in the way of a rant.

Actualy that is not true Freedom of monement is enshrined in the EU legisltion

 

[najaB]

Actualy that is not true Freedom of monement is enshrined in the EU legisltion

And can you explain exactly what Freedom of Movement actually means?

 

[Berliner]

Actualy that is not true Freedom of monement is enshrined in the EU legisltion

The UK chose not to implement measures which meant people could only stay for a limited time without a job and could have, but also chose not to, restrict access to state benefits. We could and did ban criminals from entering from the EU and we could and did deport EU citizens who committed crimes. We also had the ability to control our non EU borders in whatever way we so chose.

Freedom of movement worked both ways, but the tories decided to strip their own citizens of a right many of us were born with. This was a fundamental right that directly affected citizens on a human level. Not bumf about borders, trade or currency, but an actual, tangible right that millions of UK citizens used throughout lives until this lot said no more.

 

[DarloRich]

Is too much credence given to what activists think? They, self-appointed think tanks are invited by bbc and guardian in particular to comment on pretty much every topic. But are they in any way representative of anything but a tiny minority of the population and is this influence undue and corrosive?
I am not saying campaigning or human rights are a bad thing, just that the by claiming human rights of a relatively few people have been denied social media is used to pressure govt etc. However, the possible equally valid human rights of the vast majority (to whom there is often a substantial cost) often seem to get ignored by pretty much everybody.

I think some research around the subject might be appropriate. For instance the BBC seem to devote considerable time to reporting what the Tax Payers Alliance or the Institute of Economic Affairs have to say. It is odd that the Daily Mail don't seem to have an issue with that side of the argument. But yeah, lefties, wrong uns.

Is the point of this nonsense to complain about "lefitie scum traitor lawyers" stopping Johnson & Patel sending the bu$$ers back? If it is, just say so.

He gave away our rights for a budget rebate from the EU for nothing in exchange. He gave away our rights to control our borders by giving unfettered access to citizens of new members of the EU in Eastern Europe. He would ike to give away our independence by rejoining the EU. He tried to give away our right for an independent currency and all that entails, but was frustrated (fortunately) by his Chancellor, Gordon Brown.

And that's just for starters.

Yet more research required. The facts seem a stranger to you.

 

[AlterEgo]

None of those things are human rights.

As George Carlin would observe, “you have no rights”. Everything we conceive as a right is actually a negotiated settlement with people in power.

 

[Yew]

I think you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Human rights are specific legal entities, not an abstract concept.

Is the point of this nonsense to complain about "lefitie scum traitor lawyers" stopping Johnson & Patel sending the bu$$ers back? If it is, just say so.

If a challenge is made in a court, it is not the lawyers responsible, it is the law.

 

[DarloRich]

If a challenge is made in a court, it is not the lawyers responsible, it is the law.

Indeed - Funny how the media for angry people doesn't quite tell the whole story!

 

[daodao]

After the mauling that the UK government has just received from the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), the UK could decide to defy its rulings and leave its "jurisdiction", like another major European country did earlier this year.

 

[AlterEgo]

After the mauling that the UK government has just received from the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), it could decide to defy its rulings and leave its "jurisdiction", like another major European country did earlier this year.

Not going to happen, as the Belfast Agreement is predicated upon incorporating the ECHR.

 

[GS250]

As George Carlin would observe, “you have no rights”. Everything we conceive as a right is actually a negotiated settlement with people in power.

These 'rights' can swiftly be taken away from you too! And there's nothing you can do about it. Unless you prepared to literally fight whoever is oppressing you.

As for activists yes they do get a disproportionate amount of airtime. However they are usually the ones wailing loudly when certain votes don't go their way. Unless you can influence the 'silent majority' then you will always be little more than a protest movement.

 

[alex397]

After the mauling that the UK government has just received from the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights), the UK could decide to defy its rulings and leave its "jurisdiction", like another major European country did earlier this year.

I can imagine a large proportion of the population think we had already left the ECHR because it has the word European in it.