Rail strikes discussion

[HL7]

scotrail drivers.

That’s not been agreed by any stretch of the imagination.

The exact wording is as follows.

“A joint working party will also focus on establishing the introduction of Sunday as part of the working week, by December 27 timetable. In line with current agreements this will be subject to negotiations at company council level. In line with both Aslef and RMT policy any changes will be subject to a referendum of drivers”.

This is lifted directly from the Scotrail offer. I would suggest this won’t happen without a minimum 10% increase for that alone.

 

[Efini92]

Reduces contributions for the employers because of a smaller payroll, and the administrative costs of short service members who leave within two years.

Cheers, I did wonder what benefit it would be to the company.
Do many people leave in under 2 years though? I can’t think of any.

 

[Watershed]

Fares are going up regardless of whether staff get a pay rise or not, just like they always have.

They will go up, but will it be by RPI, RPI-1, RPI+1? Who knows. That increment has always varied over the years, depending on how generous the government of the day was feeling.

What’s the benefit of not having new members join the pension scheme for 2 years?

That the company has no open ended liability for those who leave within the first 2 years, which for some roles is a lot of people. And with each TOC (presumably) counting separately you'll restart the clock if you move TOCs.

It also serves as an incentive to stay, a long service bonus of sorts. To be honest, for low to lower medium earners (say up to £30k or so), the 1.5x state pension deduction means it's actually not as attractive as it's made out to sound. But for upper medium to high earners it's a very generous scheme.

You will benefit for additional 3 years of contributions !

Yes, but that's not much use if you have already reached the maximum 40 years' contributions before you turn 65! That said I don't think many people will be affected by that particular issue.

The bigger issue is that it means you're likely to get back a lot less in terms of your pension in the future. With most sections of the RPS being in a healthy position AFAIK, this looks like a cost-cutting measure dressed up as "the horrible Pensions Regulator forcing us to do this".

 

[diffident]

So the strike starts... well not really, its all about booking on times isn't it?

 

[JonathanH]

With most sections of the RPS being in a healthy position AFAIK, this looks like a cost-cutting measure dressed up as "the horrible Pensions Regulator forcing us to do this".

I'd suggest you read Appendix D more closely as to where the impetus comes from.

 

[Dan G]

I realise my copy and paste might not be perfect (technophobe) so here is pdf attached.

If these proposals were matched with a pay offer of at least 5%, I'd say they're pretty reasonable. But 3%? Nah.

 

[northernrail2009]

Can someone please tell me why some services are running from about 7am till 6pm as that does seem very strange shift times as i would had though there would be a late shift of say 3pm-11pm?

Also the same goes for the late start on Non Strike days?

 

[liamf656]

Can someone please tell me why some services are running from about 7am till 6pm as that does seem very strange shift times as i would had though there would be a late shift of say 3pm-11pm?

Also the same goes for the late start on Non Strike days?

I doubt there’d have been enough people to run an evening service in most places. And from what I can see the reason of the late start on the non-strike days is because no signalling staff would have booked on for the overnight shifts as the starting times would fall within the strike days, hence nothing would be running until around 7am, when the day shift starts

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it essential for some of the "top brass" of the RMT to look like they also work for "Rent-a-Gangster"?

Perhaps when the film is made about this dispute, Vinny Jones will be in line for a top part.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can someone please tell me why some services are running from about 7am till 6pm as that does seem very strange shift times as i would had though there would be a late shift of say 3pm-11pm?

Also the same goes for the late start on Non Strike days?

the action started for shifts that commence in the 24h after the strike starts at 0000 today and 0200 Thursday and Saturday. In reality That means no signalling and maintenance staff from about 0600 this morning Until 0600/0700 tomorrow morning.

The contingent staff are working a 12 hour shift from 0700.

That’s not been agreed by any stretch of the imagination.

The exact wording is as follows.

“A joint working party will also focus on establishing the introduction of Sunday as part of the working week, by December 27 timetable. In line with current agreements this will be subject to negotiations at company council level. In line with both Aslef and RMT policy any changes will be subject to a referendum of drivers”.

This is lifted directly from the Scotrail offer. I would suggest this won’t happen without a minimum 10% increase for that alone.

ok fair enough.

 

[newtownmgr]

Can someone please tell me why some services are running from about 7am till 6pm as that does seem very strange shift times as i would had though there would be a late shift of say 3pm-11pm?

Also the same goes for the late start on Non Strike days?

Many signallers work 12 hour shifts 6-6. Impacts services before 6am. Services will wind down early to allow units to be in place for the next working day, allowing them to be cleaned/fueled etc

 

[gazzaa2]

Are the government aware that ongoing train strikes will cost the economy more than projected savings in the industry?

 

[Jamiescott1]

The first 3 marlow trains of the day are a casualty of the strikes.
When I cycled past bourne end on way to maidenhead station I noticed a 165 sitting in the platform there (power off, no staff)


Maidenhead station is quite busy with people waiting for the 1st Elizabeth line service of the day

 

[ASharpe]

Quiet here at Shipley, ticket office shut, lots of litter on the platform, a few dozen people waiting for the slightly delayed first train. A few people in northern uniform wandering about looking confused.

 

[adc82140]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

 

[JonathanH]

The first 3 marlow trains of the day are a casualty of the strikes.
When I cycled past bourne end on way to maidenhead station I noticed a 165 sitting in the platform there (power off, no staff)

The standard arrangement for outstabling a Turbo overnight for the Marlow line when access to Reading depot is not available is to keep it at Bourne End rather than Maidenhead. In contrast, units for the Henley and Windsor lines stable at Twyford and Slough.

By keeping units on the branches the service can start up earlier than if the units had to come from Reading but that isn't until the contingent signallers arrive.

 

[LowLevel]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

And how long would that last before you were whinging that 100 plus people ringing your local station was intimidating?

It was banned by the Government. Limited numbers at your own location only.

 

[Smidster]

Just to look at that document (assuming it is authentic) from the perspective of a layperson I find most of it to look pretty reasonable to be honest although would think there should be scope to go from 2+1 to say 4/5 + 1

It seems completely reasonable to think about the role of booking offices in 2022 and beyond - Similar to local banks or post offices they may sound like something that we should have but unfortunately the hard numbers just really don't support them anymore and like those other things it is only ever going to go in one direction sadly. Of course there will be edge cases to work out but fundamentally if something isn't being used then we shouldn't preserve it for the sake of it.

On Pensions an increase in pension age is completely reasonable - An age of 62 is an outlier compared to other comparable pension schemes (e.g. NHS 65 , Civil Service SPA , Teachers SPA) and the benefits still look to be pretty damn good compared to what you would get elsewhere. Of course everyone doesn't want to work longer for the pension, and given some of the comments it appears many of you truly hate your jobs, but we are living longer and the continued viability of the scheme must also be considered.

Sunday services are an absolute must to the future of your industry - commuting is not likely to go back to how it was so you need to cater to the market that is there when the demand is there which is the leisure market including weekends.

So 2%+1% does sound a little stingy compared to where the private sector settlements are right now (+ where public sector likely to be) but the rest really doesn't sound that unreasonable to be honest - you would still have a very good set of T&Cs compared to the wider economy.

 

[adc82140]

And how long would that last before you were whinging that 100 plus people ringing your local station was intimidating?

It was banned by the Government. Limited numbers at your own location only.

That government ban was wrong. Surely the whole point of a strike is to publicly show management the level of dissatisfaction of the staff? There is no need to act in an intimidating manner. I've engaged with those on picket lines (non railway). There was a bit of a party atmosphere. I learned a few things about their cause. Indeed if certain members were tasked with public engagement on the picket lines the unions may get more support.

 

[Dan G]

Just to look at that document (assuming it is authentic) from the perspective of a layperson I find most of it to look pretty reasonable to be honest although would think there should be scope to go from 2+1 to say 4/5 + 1

It seems completely reasonable to think about the role of booking offices in 2022 and beyond - Similar to local banks or post offices they may sound like something that we should have but unfortunately the hard numbers just really don't support them anymore and like those other things it is only ever going to go in one direction sadly. Of course there will be edge cases to work out but fundamentally if something isn't being used then we shouldn't preserve it for the sake of it.

On Pensions an increase in pension age is completely reasonable - An age of 62 is an outlier compared to other comparable pension schemes (e.g. NHS 65 , Civil Service SPA , Teachers SPA) and the benefits still look to be pretty damn good compared to what you would get elsewhere. Of course everyone doesn't want to work longer for the pension, and given some of the comments it appears many of you truly hate your jobs, but we are living longer and the continued viability of the scheme must also be considered.

Sunday services are an absolute must to the future of your industry - commuting is not likely to go back to how it was so you need to cater to the market that is there when the demand is there which is the leisure market including weekends.

So 2%+1% does sound a little stingy compared to where the private sector settlements are right now (+ where public sector likely to be) but the rest really doesn't sound that unreasonable to be honest - you would still have a very good set of T&Cs compared to the wider economy.

Very much agree.

Andrew Haines on Radio 4 (at 7.12am) was pretty convincing on the needs for working practice reform but not on pay.

Mick Lynch will be on at 8.10am.

 

[Need2]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

Why, you’re not getting paid?
Don’t be so petty!

 

[Bertiethebobby]

I'm interested in who is working the signalling centres today. I'd assumed that it was mainly Movement Managers/ Signalling centre managers and some non-union staff.
Just wondering if anyone in the know has a guess on percentages?

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

I believe that the law limits pickets to 6 people outside a workplace

 

[142blue]

One rule that should change regarding strikes in any sector is that staying at home shouldn't be permitted. If you're on strike, you should be compelled to attend a picket line for the duration of your shift.

Nah, sat here in bed with a brew is just fine with me. Gorgeous day too

 

[whoosh]

What happens when Sunday services increase? "Will you work my Committed Sunday Overtime for me, I'd like the day off (and can't take annual leave because it's overtime)?"

"Love to, but I've got my own committed Sunday to work now they've put more Sundays in the roster."

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

And in a year or two when they bring out more rubbish about the railways finances and mismanagement, they will say why should we pay railway workers any extra for a day that’s included in their working week. This door needs to remain firmly closed. No changes to Sunday working under any circumstance.

This sunday thing is odd.

Down here if you're rostered to work Sundays you work Sundays. Doesn't matter if you're Rolling stock, Infrastructure or Operations.

A driver for instance is required to 76 hours per fortnight divided into not more than 10 shifts. But there is a clause relating to Sunday.
From the latest EBA:

4.13.3 Consecutive Sundays may be rostered but rosters will not comprise more than five(5)
Sundays out of eight (8) rostered to work

https://ds12k1658w1f2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Metro-Trains-Melbourne-Pty-Ltd-Rail-Operations-Enterprise-Agreement-2019_FWC-approved.pdf

 

[DelayRepay]

What happens when Sunday services increase? "Will you work my Committed Sunday Overtime for me, I'd like the day off (and can't take annual leave because it's overtime)?"

"Love to, but I've got my own committed Sunday to work now they've put more Sundays in the roster."

Am I right in thinking that if Sundays are put into the roster, in reality they either need to hire more workers, or cut back shifts (and therefore services) on the other six days to balance things out?

 

[adc82140]

Why, you’re not getting paid?
Don’t be so petty!

Do the RMT not offer strike pay?

 

[BrokenSam]

Is it essential for some of the "top brass" of the RMT to look like they also work for "Rent-a-Gangster"?

Perhaps when the film is made about this dispute, Vinny Jones will be in line for a top part.

They just look like normal people. Do you mean "have accents"?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They just look like normal people. Do you mean "have accents"?

Not at all....it is the way they look. Perhaps people round your way also look like that, but you haven't noticed yet.

 

[whoosh]

Am I right in thinking that if Sundays are put into the roster, in reality they either need to hire more workers, or cut back shifts (and therefore services) on the other six days to balance things out?

Putting Sundays into the working week, yes.


But that isn't what that document says. It says that rostered Sunday shifts (at TOCs that don't have them inside the working week) will become 'Committed Sundays' - i.e. enforced overtime.