East Coast Eureka clockface timetable May 2011

[MCR247]

But that's just it, why just Peterborough be subjected to a poor slow service stopping at every single shack when the likes of Darlington and Durham for example not only have East Coast to get to Edinburgh but also Cross Country?

The likes of Grantham, Newark, Retford etc...could easily be picked up by a Yorkshire service.

A poor slow service? Now you are just being ridiculous. The point of calling at Grantham/Newark is for journey opportunities from the midlands.

Do you suggest that Peterborough gets a non-stop train to Edinburgh every hour or something?

Lmao at the fact that Darlington is now a shack

Whoops, my apologies, I forgot XC now ran trains from Darlington - Kings Cross
:roll::roll:

 

[tbtc]

A poor slow service? Now you are just being ridiculous. The point of calling at Grantham/Newark is for journey opportunities from the midlands.

Do you suggest that Peterborough gets a non-stop train to Edinburgh every hour or something?

Lmao at the fact that Darlington is now a shack

Whoops, my apologies, I forgot XC now ran trains from Darlington - Kings Cross
:roll::roll:

This is the problem with these threads - everyone wants a fast service that runs non stop between London - Their Local Station - Edinburgh...

On the subject, I would argue with the notion that everything needs to stop at York, but that may be an argument for another night...

 

[MCR247]

I'm not though, I'm trying to balance a fair service with frequency

 

[tbtc]

I'm not though, I'm trying to balance a fair service with frequency

Sorry, not trying to have a go at you, I was meaning if you live in Peterborough then you want every ECML service to stop there, if you live on Teesside then you want every ECML service to stop at Darlington...

 

[philjo]

That is why you need both the stoppers & the fast services, to serve both markets. The stopper should go through to Newcastle (possibly every 2 hours) - probably overtaken at York by the next fast service.

On the WCML, Virgin only run the fast services, but LM are running the stoppers connecting the intermediate stations.
In the case of the ECML between Peterborough & Doncaster (York if XC divert via Leeds), EC is the only franchised operator calling at the stations on the route (plus Hull Trains & Grantham, Retford & Doncaster), so EC need to run both types of service, & they need to connect properly with each other & passengers not disadvantaged that they are not using the larger stations - i.e. still able to get reasonable availability/price of advance tickets even if this now involves 2 or 3 trains instead of a through service at the moment.
The York stopper is only every 2 hours but as far as I could see it was due to leave York immediately after the fast train which would not give sufficient connection time.
The Newark stopper should go through to York to provide an hourly service to York.
There is already a half hourly Doncaster-Leeds EC service which can connect.

 

[tbtc]

On the WCML, Virgin only run the fast services, but LM are running the stoppers connecting the intermediate stations

Yeah, the point I was trying to make was that the Virgin services were timed so that one stops at one intermediate station whilst one stops at another, rather than one running non-stop to Manchester/Birmingham. The even split of services at Birmingham/Manchester seems to be better for them than one *fast* service and some slower ones...

 

[Damien1986]

If it was my choice and the paths were available, I'd consider the following stopping patterns for services; Edinburgh fast; York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Edinburgh slow; Peterborough, Grantham/Newark (alternating every hour), Doncaster, York, Darlington,Northallerton, Durham, (can't remember which order these three come in), Newcastle, Alnmouth/Berwick (alternating every hour) and Edinburgh. Also if the stock and paths were available, I'd also run an hourly Newcastle stopping service; Stevenage, Grantham/Newark (calling at the station not served by the Edinburgh slow), Retford, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Northallerton, Durham and Newcastle. I'd make sure it was timed to connect cross-platform with a XC or EC Edinburgh service, so passengers from Stevenage, Grantham/Newark and Retford could have an easy change to get to Edinburgh.

Then again you could argue that the slow Newcastle stoppers should be extended to Edinburgh/Aberdeen/Inverness etc!

 

[MCR247]

Why would you argue that?

 

[Aictos]

A poor slow service? Now you are just being ridiculous. The point of calling at Grantham/Newark is for journey opportunities from the midlands.

That's the only point where I believe is correct, I give you that but with proper interchange workings it's possible.

Do you suggest that Peterborough gets a non-stop train to Edinburgh every hour or something?

No I never said anything about Peterborough having a non stop service to Scotland, all I'm suggesting is to offer Peterborough and East Anglia as well as passengers from Stevenage etc...afaster journey to Scotland rather then stopping everywhere which has a alternative service.

Whoops, my apologies, I forgot XC now ran trains from Darlington - Kings Cross
:roll::roll:

Now you're just being daft as you were in the last post I quoted! I was referring to the fact that Darl, Durham and Newcastle passengers have the luxury of either Cross Country or East Coast between these stations and Scotland, nowhere was I referring to Kings Cross!

Passengers south of York just have East Coast, besides with the timings that were suggested prior to my response meant south of York any stations concerned would have to get a stopper stopping at nearly every station, least that can be done as a minimum is to offer south of York a few fast services rather then assuming the first stop should be York regardless and restricting the southern stations to the slower service.

Like I've posted above here, if done correctly then interchange possibilities are possible at York or Newcastle for example between a slower East Coast and a Cross Country and with more Cross Country services heading between Teeside and Scotland, it's not hard.

Not everything revolves about the Midlands and Teeside now!

 

[Failed Unit]

As someone that uses the Southern part of the route a lot to get to Edinburgh I think although not perfect the new timetable is OK. If the Newcastle terminator could be extended to Edinburgh hourly then very few people could complain.

I agree it would be good if the stopping service to York connected into the fast with about a 10 minute wait. That may still happen as we haven't seen the finished product.

I would be very dissapointed if it was an XC service the change at York was onto for 2 reasons. The quality of service on XC is poor compared to east coast in every way. Currently if you are booking an AP ticket you can't get them if you use XC (even if it is just to get between York and Doncaster) the ticket is not valid on XC. But 2h5 on a voyager with just a trolley and an inability to use a mobile is not a suitable substitute for a train which you can buy decent food inboard and work.

Grantham to me is a better stop for London - Edinburgh services than Newark as with a simple change you can get to Nottingham a big Market. Newark is useful for car drivers but for rail it only has Lincoln which Doncaster is just as good to use to get there (if decent connection provided) Lincoln - London prefer trains that are not going to Scotland as they are not as busy from Leeds.

 

[cle]

I don't think the fast Edinburgh services need to call at Darlington either. One tph is enough to London, if there are good connections on XC at York for a second one. Northbound frequencies (3tph to Newcastle, 2tph to Edinburgh) would be fine.

And the Newark terminator is a stupid idea, it should continue to York (and Lincoln alternately!) - Newark is a shack in the railway sense, and barely has any onward connections. Or at least it could go to Doncaster!

 

[MCR247]

That's the only point where I believe is correct, I give you that but with proper interchange workings it's possible.



No I never said anything about Peterborough having a non stop service to Scotland, all I'm suggesting is to offer Peterborough and East Anglia as well as passengers from Stevenage etc...afaster journey to Scotland rather then stopping everywhere which has a alternative service.



Now you're just being daft as you were in the last post I quoted! I was referring to the fact that Darl, Durham and Newcastle passengers have the luxury of either Cross Country or East Coast between these stations and Scotland, nowhere was I referring to Kings Cross!

Passengers south of York just have East Coast, besides with the timings that were suggested prior to my response meant south of York any stations concerned would have to get a stopper stopping at nearly every station, least that can be done as a minimum is to offer south of York a few fast services rather then assuming the first stop should be York regardless and restricting the southern stations to the slower service.

Like I've posted above here, if done correctly then interchange possibilities are possible at York or Newcastle for example between a slower East Coast and a Cross Country and with more Cross Country services heading between Teeside and Scotland, it's not hard.

Not everything revolves about the Midlands and Teeside now!

It isn't really slow is it? You are making out that Peterborough would be left out because it would have a train that takes the best part of an hour longer. When in reality, a train that takes 10-15 minutes longer, is not the end of the world.

 

[dfishw]

ive read this and while there are some good parts (esp making it a clockface timetable) there are some silly ones. First i think the edinburough fast service should call at newcastle and york and not berwick on tweed....its only a town and i dont see why it does? Extending the newcastle service to to scotland would be a better idea as this could provide the slower service. Calling the fast at peterbourough makes more sense at at least its a large place.
The service that terminates at newark northgate seems just absurd it should be extended to lincoln preferably or if not really anywhere else but newark is only a town. Personally my preferance is:
1. Edinburugh fast: Newcastle and york only.
2. Edinburugh slow: Dunbar, Berwick, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington/Stockton?, York, Doncastor, Peterborough.
3. York/Newcastle (stopping): Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, york, Doncastor, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage. (i have missed some places out)
3. (alternate hour): Lincoln, Hykenham, Sywidermere, Collingham, Newark Ngate, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage.
4. Open: (as they are now as to be honest i have no idea what the calling patterns are on the hull and sunderland services!)
5. Leeds fast: Leeds, Peterbourgh.
6. Leeds stopping: Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage.

Some services extended north in peak periods and the edinburugh service calling at places such as grantham in the peak period (as it used to) Some extended to harrogate (ext york service), Bradford (ext leeds), Scarbouogh? (ext York), Cleethorpes (ext lincoln), Skegness (instead of lincoln/york). The other proposals (except the silly ones such as skipton no offense but its only a small place as is saltburn) could be fit in if possible (Hull/nottingham-Glasgow could be joined at york..though there isnt any room at the moment), Huddersfield probably best via mml.

 

[ainsworth74]

2. Edinburugh slow: Dunbar, Berwick, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington/Stockton?, York, Doncastor, Peterborough.

Stockton is on a different line completely to Darlington.

5. Leeds fast: Leeds, Peterbourgh.
6. Leeds stopping: Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage.

You wouldn't have any of the Leeds services call at Doncaster? I would have the fast probably as well as the slow certainly and would be tempted to admit the Peterborough stop from the Leeds fast in exchange.

 

[MCR247]

Dunbar gets an hourly service to London but Grantham has no service to anywhere north of Newcastle?

 

[silentone]

I love how all of this discussion is based on nothing more than the only draft timetable which is no longer available or accurate.

 

[NXEA!]

For the Leeds services I'd have: Fast; Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster (possibly Peterborough) and Kings Cross. Slow; Wakefield Westgate, Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage. The Newark terminators I'd extend to York so York gets an hourly stopping service and I would call it at Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark, Retford, Doncaster and York. I'd then dispense with the Newcastle stopping service as there would be an hourly York stopping service to cover the southern end stops, and I would run the two Edinburgh's as follows: Edinburgh fast; York and Newcastle. Edinburgh slow; Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Northallerton, Durham, Newcastle, Alnmouth/Dunbar (alternate every hour) Berwick and Edinburgh. I'd stop one or two of the slows in each direction at Stevenage to maintain links to Edinburgh, and I'd time the Yorks to arrive 8-10 minutes before the Edinburgh's to allow interchange. I know I've already posted what I'd do with the Edinburgh's, but I've tweaked a few things.

 

[Failed Unit]

Hykeham, Swinderby getting trains to London lol. I think Swinderby needs some passengers first!

 

[Anvil1984]

. Edinburgh slow; Peterborough, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Northallerton, Durham, Newcastle, Alnmouth/Dunbar (alternate every hour) Berwick and Edinburgh. :

Still thinking what I'd do but are you sure a reversal at Darlington to serve Northallerton then fast to Durham is necessary, could go Northalllerton, Darlington then Durham

 

[NXEA!]

Still thinking what I'd do but are you sure a reversal at Darlington to serve Northallerton then fast to Durham is necessary, could go Northalllerton, Darlington then Durham

Oi. Haha, sorry I couldn't remember the station order, now I know, thanks.

 

[Aictos]

Dunbar gets an hourly service to London but Grantham has no service to anywhere north of Newcastle?

Wrong, the second East Coast between Monday to Friday which is the 06:15 Kings Cross to Edinburgh service certainly calls at Grantham and also have a pretty decent service on the weekend as well.

As to Southbound services between Monday to Friday, you have the 05:50 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service, the 06:00 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service, the 07:00 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service, the 12:00 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service and finally the 17:50 Edinburgh to Kings Cross service.

I'm not including services to or from Glasgow as there's already very good connections available between Edinburgh and Glasgow via Shotts, A2B, Falkirk High and Motherwell.

 

[MCR247]

I was on referring to dfishw's post above mine actually

 

[Deerfold]

I love how all of this discussion is based on nothing more than the only draft timetable which is no longer available or accurate.

Well, we've no idea how accurate it is, but it's certainly still available:

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Documents/PDFs/Eureka/Draft EurekaTT (2).pdf

 

[cslusarc]

First i think the edinburough fast service should call at newcastle and york and not berwick on tweed....its only a town and i dont see why it does?

Extending the newcastle service to to scotland would be a better idea as this could provide the slower service.

Calling the fast at peterbourough makes more sense at at least its a large place. The service that terminates at newark northgate seems just absurd it should be extended to lincoln preferably or if not really anywhere else but newark is only a town. Personally my preferance is:
1. Edinburugh fast: Newcastle and york only.
2. Edinburugh slow: Dunbar, Berwick, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington/Stockton?, York, Doncastor, Peterborough.
3. York/Newcastle (stopping): Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, york, Doncastor, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage. (i have missed some places out)
3. (alternate hour): Lincoln, Hykenham, Sywidermere, Collingham, Newark Ngate, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage.
4. Open: (as they are now as to be honest i have no idea what the calling patterns are on the hull and sunderland services!)
5. Leeds fast: Leeds, Peterbourgh.
6. Leeds stopping: Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage.

Here's what I'd like to see at KINGS CROSS:

1. The headline Edinburugh fast service happen every hour. XX:00 calling at York and Newcastle only. And I agree that if an additional stop is required it should be at Peterbourough.
2. The headline Leeds fast service: XX:03 calling at Peterborough, Doncaster, Wakefield Westgate only.
3a. The Edinburugh stopping should happen every other hour at XX:10 calling at Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, Doncaster, York, Northallerton, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick-upon-Tweed and Dunbar
3b A alternate hour service at XX+1:10 to Lincoln. Stopping at Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham and Newark North Gate
4. A Newcastle semi-fast XX:30. Stopping at Peterborough, Newark North Gate, Doncaster, York and Darlington
5. A Leeds stopping at XX:35. Stopping at Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford and Wakefield Westgate

 

[YorkshireRider]

I think the Leeds trains are fine on the draft timetable, giving a consistant two hour 10 mins on all services. Although i have heard that the company have give in to some MP in Retford because he was moaning that there was not enough morning services from there so a Leeds morning peak service will have to have a reduced journey time to stop there to pick 3 men and a dog up. Lets hope there is not too much of this. Quicker journey times and a clockface timetable thats easy to remember was the aim, stick to it.

 

[tbtc]

I think the Leeds trains are fine on the draft timetable, giving a consistant two hour 10 mins on all services

That's my view too.

A consistant journey time is of more use, and a uniform speed for trains means more paths can be squeezed into the timetable

 

[silentone]

Well, we've no idea how accurate it is, but it's certainly still available:

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Documents/PDFs/Eureka/Draft EurekaTT (2).pdf

Talk about completely missing the point.

 

[dickdarlington]

You can't have the slow Edinburgh stopping at every station. It would take forever for you to get from Durham, D'ton, Northallerton to London. Lots of custom would be lost. I would intermediate the stops bihourly south of Doncaster (to match in with the Leeds services) and as such speeding up the service.

Or would you be able to buy the same priced ticket to change at York?

 

[Freakofnature]

Talk about completely missing the point.

What is the point then?




You can criticise/draw on ideas even if a timetable is only a draft...

 

[Invincibles]

I would have an hourly Edinburgh -> Newcastle -> York -> London train which if possible would be scheduled to hit the 4 hour headline.

There would then be a second train for Dunbar* Berwick Alnmouth^ Morpeth* Newcastle, Durham, Darlington Northallerton^ York (Where it would be looped for the fast train) Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham, Peterborough, Stevenage, London.
(^ one hour, * the next)

Assuming it stays logical the York to London (Newark as appropriate) would run 20 minutes behind this one to avoid being caught by the next fast by KGX.

Leeds would work as in the proposal (I have not looked but it seems good)

Sorry to the people of Aberdeen and Inverness but those trains would be extensions of the "slow" not the fast.

Passengers from Durham and Darlington to London would have cheaper fares on the slow train or the option to change to the fast at York.

The overall effect is that there are a lot of through journeys possible.

If possible I would also add in a Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, York, Peterborough, London to run in connection with the York -> London "stopper" as a pair. That would need more stock though so I do not think is viable at this stage.