Mitchell Hurd
On Moderation
- Joined
- 28 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 1,647
Where can I find details of the December 2022 timetable?
It would seem likely that it will start to appear on RTT (and other places showing the open data) in late August / early September. Until then, details are just in the hands of informed sources.Where can I find details of the December 2022 timetable?
No ite completely dead.I wouldn’t say it’s completely dead, but it’s *very* heavily sleeping.
Is that a regular all day service, or an infrequenst addition like the recently introduced Maidstone East - Blackfriars trains which I assume they'll replace?
Not Blackfriars?
Wow this must be a rare time when a timetable change actually improves the service for a particular line/destination.Yes, there is a new Maidstone to Charing Cross service from December which is essentially in lieu of the proposed Thameslink services.
I would have thought the former almost certainly, although the latter might exist on a seldom basis to retain route knowledge for diversions (IIRC the Beckenham Spur is used by at least one late night service for this purpose).will it use St Mary Cray Junction from the Chatham Mainline to the Southeastern Mainline, or from Beckenham Junction to New Beckenham?
No ite completely dead.
In the train planning rules the bit about maidstone was crossed out in favour of 'Future potential Thameslink routes'Has this been officially stated, though? We all know it’s dead, but it doesn’t seem to have been confirmed as such, to the public at large.
In the train planning rules the bit about maidstone was crossed out in favour of 'Future potential Thameslink routes'
There's always plenty of stock sitting in Three Bridges and Cricklewood during weekday daytime and thats not on a strike day.This is what I mean, as far as I can tell there has been no public statement to the effect that Cambridge - Maidstone isn’t happening.
Of course, we all know that certain things have happened behind the scenes, both in terms of Southeastern crewing arrangements and setting up the new Southeastern Maidstone service. But this all seems to have happened at the same time that the Thameslink service has remained aspirational, if not deliverable.
In any case, I’m not sure where the stock to work it would come from. The 700/0 fleet is pretty much fully subscribed.
In the train planning rules the bit about maidstone was crossed out in favour of 'Future potential Thameslink routes'
There's always plenty of stock sitting in Three Bridges and Cricklewood during weekday daytime and thats not on a strike day.
There was also the issue that Chart Leacon needed to be reopened enough to accommodate extra space for SE units to move into, so 700s could use some of the Ashford Down siding space. I don't know what the situation is with Chart Leacon right now, but SE will have achieved some relief from covid reductions and by sending away the 465/2s for the first 707s (instead of trying to keep everything once more stabling was available), and when the remaining 707s do come over, the units they end up pushing out look set to be 377/5s. It will be interesting to see what stock forms this new CHX service being touted.It might be the case now, but this wasn’t really the case pre-Covid. In terms of 700/0 any units stabled during the day would be off Luton-Orpington, Welwyn-Sevenoaks and possibly the odd 8-car on the mainly 12-car routes. Any slack in the 700/0 fleet seems to have been used to cover Rainham, which of course wasn’t in the original plan. Without working out the exact timings, Maidstone is going to be a minimum of 4 units for a half-hourly service, probably more, and I just don’t think they exist without robbing something else.
They were fully diagrammed in 2019 but certainly aren't now and unlikely to replicate the 2019 service pattern again. The Rainham service consumes at least 8 units for a half hourly service which was particularly wasteful and should have been run to Dartford maybe Gravesend.It might be the case now, but this wasn’t really the case pre-Covid. In terms of 700/0 any units stabled during the day would be off Luton-Orpington, Welwyn-Sevenoaks and possibly the odd 8-car on the mainly 12-car routes. Any slack in the 700/0 fleet seems to have been used to cover Rainham, which of course wasn’t in the original plan. Without working out the exact timings, Maidstone is going to be a minimum of 4 units for a half-hourly service, probably more, and I just don’t think they exist without robbing something else.
Maybe the whole point of the Rainham service is to use up the units that aren't needed now that they've given up on 24tph?They were fully diagrammed in 2019 but certainly aren't now and unlikely to replicate the 2019 service pattern again. The Rainham service consumes at least 8 units for a half hourly service which was particularly wasteful and should have been run to Dartford maybe Gravesend.
Doubling up of units on the residual 1tph Liverpool to Birmingham and the Birmingham to Crewe via 'wobbles' service?What have I missed?
But the Birmingham to Crewe via wobbles is basically pointless as it now takes so long doing Wolves to Brum that it's quicker getting the Liverpool train and changing at Wolves/Stafford for Crewe!Doubling up of units on the residual 1tph Liverpool to Birmingham and the Birmingham to Crewe via 'wobbles' service?
But the Birmingham to Crewe via wobbles is basically pointless as it now takes so long doing Wolves to Brum that it's quicker getting the Liverpool train and changing at Wolves/Stafford for Crewe!
It isn't, and never was, a service for people going from Birmingham to Crewe. The Liverpool (LNR) and Scotland (Avanti) trains provide 2tph direct on that.
The purpose of that train is connecting the "wobbly" bits to either end.
The Crewe to Birmingham stopping service is very little used. An eight car isn't going to be necessary any time soon.Doubling up of units on the residual 1tph Liverpool to Birmingham and the Birmingham to Crewe via 'wobbles' service?
The latest public documents suggest that a return of a 2tph Birmingham-Liverpool service isn't totally off the cards (as it is for 6tph CrossCity, for instance), but that it is dependent on traffic levels. I would see that as code for "not really happening" but perhaps I'm being pessimistic there.
Thr Crewe to Birmingham stopping service is very little used. An eight car isn't going to be necessary any time soon.
Indeed. And the level crossing at Alsager.The whole reason the "wobble" service exists (and was separated from the Euston-Crewe) was that at Stone station going north an 8-car set would foul the mainline during a station stop, so unless 5.730 fits there's no scope to go longer.
And the diversion via Tame Bridge Parkway will only serve to reduce footfall further. The only people who will really use it are those making local journeys (e.g. Penkridge/Stone-Stoke/Stafford) or from the small stations (Alsager/Kidsgrove/Stone/Penkridge/Tame Bridge) to Birmingham, or changing at Stafford/Stoke/Crewe for connections.The Crewe to Birmingham stopping service is very little used. An eight car isn't going to be necessary any time soon.
Sorry, there should have been a comma, not an implication of 8-car working on the wobble service.The Crewe to Birmingham stopping service is very little used. An eight car isn't going to be necessary any time soon.
This is just something which people like saying, rather than something which actually goes a significant way to improving the economics of rail services.I thought the widely held view was that trains had got too frequent before March 2020 to be reliable and the new world would see longer, less frequent trains to rebuild reliability.
This is just something which people like saying, rather than something which actually goes a significant way to improving the economics of rail services.
In some corridors this is certainly true but I don't think it can be claimed that 2tph between Birmingham and Liverpool/Manchester was too frequent, for instance.I thought the widely held view was that trains had got too frequent before March 2020 to be reliable and the new world would see longer, less frequent trains to rebuild reliability. This seems not to be happening in enough places, and where it is happening, people seem to be complaining.