Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[snowball]

The press sure love the use of hyperbole don’t they?

The word "monumental" is NR's. It's in the press release. Presumably meant to apply to the whole TRU rather than just the Church Fenton bit, but I sometimes think the lack of clarity on such points is deliberate.

 

[AM9]

But the catenary works much better to hold the wires up.

But it is hyperbolic (in a cosine way).

 

[snowball]

But it is hyperbolic (in a cosine way).

Of course, railway catenary is not a catenary in the mathematical sense, but somewhere between a catenary and a parabola.

 

[AM9]

Of course, railway catenary is not a catenary in the mathematical sense, but somewhere between a catenary and a parabola.

It is once the droppers are connected, yes.

 

[snowball]

Assuming the bridges in question are rail over road bridges, there's only a few possibilities between Huddersfield and Deighton: the bridge over John William Street right at the station throat; any of the spans of the viaduct immediately beyond the aforementioned bridge; the bridge near the Household Waste centre which is more akin to a road tunnel through an embankment; and the bridges at Red Doles Lane.

John William Street and the viaduct look like much bigger jobs than the relatively short blockades would allow. The one near the incinerator is probably the same due to the embankment above- and probably doesn't need any modifications anyway. Unless I've missed a bridge (there's every chance I have) that just leaves Red Doles. I've a vague memory that the bridges currently in use were only rebuilt quite recently (in the last 20 years or so), so could this be the installation of new decks to carry additional tracks? Or as the location is close to the Hillhouse temporary station site, it could be in preparation for that.

The Kirklees roadworks map shows multiple closures in the area, including Red Doles Road at the railway from 27 May to 12 Aug.

 

[swt_passenger]

The press sure love the use of hyperbole don’t they?

Not necessarily, I think the press simply repeat whatever waffle they get from NR. NR had already misused the word ‘colossal’ recently, (in a press release about some relatively minor signalling work, mentioned in this thread).

Must have been ‘monumental’ that was next in the queue…

 

[Ken H]

It is once the droppers are connected, yes.

Surely, once the droppers are connected, there will be 'corners' in the curve of the catenery. rather like the 'corners' on a 50p piece?

 

[snowball]

Surely, once the droppers are connected, there will be 'corners' in the curve of the catenery. rather like the 'corners' on a 50p piece?

Yes but the corners will lie on an invisible curve which is somewhere between a mathematical catenary and a parabola. And the bits in between will not deviate very far from that curve.

 

[YorksLad12]

Not sure five miles down to Church Fenton really justifies the use of the word "monumental" in the press release. Also its taken 2.5 years to get this far they need to up there game. Weaver Jc-Motherwell 186miles authorised March 70 services running May 74 although i would accept the safety of the staff doing the installation work is massively better now but so is the plant they have.

Also as usual with NR media releases now on this programme no mention of EIS.

Monumentally long time to get this far. I'm fine with that.

 

[Starmill]

I notice that the project is to be re-announced yet again on Tuesday:

Train services in the north of England are to be given triple the intended investment after the government announced the first part of its £96bn integrated rail plan.

The multibillion pound plan – announced last November – pledged to deliver faster train journeys more quickly than the original plans for the HS2 eastern leg and Northern Powerhouse Rail.

On Tuesday, the transport secretary, Grant Shapps, will unveil an investment worth up to £11.5bn for the Transpennine Route Upgrades, which had been a £2.9bn project on services between Manchester and York via Leeds.

From 2025, commuters can expect two extra passenger trains every hour and journey times up to 40% shorter.

Shapps claims that a trip between Manchester and Leeds will drop from up to an hour to just over 30 minutes, an improvement that will “revolutionise that journey across the Pennines”.

North of England rail services to receive £11.5bn investment

Transport secretary Grant Shapps says Manchester-Leeds journey time will fall to just over 30 minutes

www.theguardian.com

The truth in any claims about this delivery being genuinely faster than through HS2 however is still very dubious.

 

[snowball]

I'm having some difficulty making sense of this item on the Guardian website, but perhaps all will become clear later today (Tuesday).

North of England rail services to receive £11.5bn investment

Transport secretary Grant Shapps says Manchester-Leeds journey time will fall to just over 30 minutes

www.theguardian.com

North of England rail services to receive £11.5bn investment​

From 2025, commuters can expect two extra trains every hour between Manchester and York and journey times up to 40% shorter

Train services in the north of England are to be given triple the intended investment after the government announced the first part of its £96bn integrated rail plan.
The multibillion pound plan – announced last November – pledged to deliver faster train journeys more quickly than the original plans for the HS2 eastern leg and Northern Powerhouse Rail.

On Tuesday, the transport secretary, Grant Shapps, will unveil an investment worth up to £11.5bn for the Transpennine Route Upgrades, which had been a £2.9bn project on services between Manchester and York via Leeds.
From 2025, commuters can expect two extra passenger trains every hour and journey times up to 40% shorter.

Shapps claims that a trip between Manchester and Leeds will drop from up to an hour to just over 30 minutes, an improvement that will “revolutionise that journey across the Pennines”.
“This is the single biggest investment any government has ever made in Britain’s railways. It’s right up there and probably beyond what the Victorians were doing,” he said.
However, the plans have been dismissed as “yet another re-announcement of existing funding by a headline-seeking transport secretary”.
Referencing the fact that this triple investment is not an addition to the overall funding package already announced, the general secretary of transport union TSSA, Manuel Cortes, said: “If this government was serious about backing our railways, then it needs to do much more to tackle rip-off ticket prices and improve reliability and end-to-end journeys.”
The integrated rail plan was greeted with disquiet in some quarters, with detractors frustrated at what they deemed a watered-down revamp.

Though a £96bn investment, promises to improve the TransPennine route arrived alongside the confirmation that major components of previously sanctioned improvements would not go ahead. Among these was the eastern leg of HS2 to Leeds and a full high-speed east-west line linking Manchester to Leeds.
The shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said Tuesday’s announcement changed little for people in the north, who remain “sick and tired of the empty words of this discredited government”.

Haigh said the northern economy had been held back by a “decade of broken promises” by the Conservatives on proposed improvements to the line between Manchester and Leeds.
Shapps maintains this investment is a demonstration of his commitment to addressing the “historic lack of balance” between spending in the north and south. Part of this involves the north now receiving “about 14% more spent per head of population than nationally”, he said.
“So for the first time ever, we’re seeing greater expenditure in the north. That’s a real reverse of the previous situation and it’s all part of our plan to level up the whole country.”
Almost £1bn of the investment will be released to progress the next phase on electrification of the railway line between Stalybridge and Manchester. The route will also be fitted with complete electrification, full digital signalling and extra tracks.

Edit: and here's the press release:

Transport Secretary more than trebles investment for rail in the north to over £9 billion

Major boosts to funding for rail route upgrades in the north.

www.gov.uk

Transport Secretary more than trebles investment for rail in the north to over £9 billion​

Major boosts to funding for rail route upgrades in the north.

• investment in TransPennine route upgrade bolstered by more than 200% to deliver a gold standard rail network to level up the north
• additional funding will be spent on digital signalling technology, electrifying the full route and building additional tracks for passenger and freight services
• this comes as government announces over £950 million for next phase of TransPennine route upgrades, which will deliver better journeys, sooner for passengers in the north

Passengers in the north are set for a major boost as Transport Secretary Grant Shapps more than trebles the investment for TransPennine route upgrades (TRU), slashing journey times, setting the foundations for Northern PowerHouse Rail and reducing carbon emissions by up to 87,000 tonnes per year.

The increase in funding, from £2.9 billion to more than £9 billion, is set to strengthen TRU and Northern Powerhouse Rail, transforming an already ambitious project to a ‘gold standard’ and delivering on the government’s priority of Levelling Up the country.

The full route will be fitted with the latest technology, from complete electrification and full digital signalling, to increased capacity along the route for passenger and freight services between Huddersfield and Westtown in Dewsbury, doubling tracks from 2 to 4.

A further £959 million of funding has been released to progress the next phase of TRU between Manchester and York. The almost £1 billion will be spent on the remaining electrification of the railway between Stalybridge and Manchester and unlocking shorter journey times and trans-Pennine rail freight flows, with electric trains between Manchester and Stalybridge expected to hit the tracks around the middle of the decade.

Funding will also facilitate Northern Powerhouse Rail potentially doubling the amount of direct construction jobs from 2,000 to up to 4,000, taking thousands of lorries off our roads and delivering better journeys, sooner for passengers across the north.

Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps said:

Through our record-breaking integrated rail plan, we have a once in a lifetime opportunity to redesign the railways and it’s only right that we deliver this in line with the best quality technology at our disposal.

By trebling the overall investment in the TRU, I’m ensuring the north is at the forefront of the government’s Levelling Up agenda and guaranteeing passengers gold standard services set to deliver greener, faster and reliable services through Northern Powerhouse Rail, electrification and additional train tracks.

Once complete, the TRU is expected to deliver multiple benefits, delivering an extra 2 passenger trains every hour and additional hourly freight slots. Upgrades are expected to service more reliable journeys and slash journey times by up to 40%. Northern Powerhouse Rail will be fully electrified, improving the local environment and air quality across the north.

The TransPennine route upgrade, announced in November 2021 as part of the integrated rail plan, will be hitting the tracks from 2025 - boosting economic growth and creating local skilled jobs.

Most of the masts in place between Manchester and Stalybridge and yet they're talking about spending a further billion pounds on it, and electric running at a vague date around the middle of the decade????

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As far as I can see this is just an announcement that Huddersfield-Dewsbury is approved/funded, and that Manchester-Stalybridge (presumably both routes) will go live by 2025.
Nothing whatever on what is planned for Stalybridge-Huddersfield or Dewsbury-Leeds-Church Fenton.
What are these 2 extra tph? Is this just a restoration of the 6tph 2019 timetable, or something better?
Presumably "full digital signalling" means ETCS, but over what distance? Liverpool-York? Stalybridge-Leeds? Diggle-Marsden?
Typing this just as Grant Shapps was on R4 promoting all his plans but giving no detail except to carp about Labour's 9-mile performance on electrification 1997-2010.

The full route will be fitted with the latest technology, from complete electrification and full digital signalling, to increased capacity along the route for passenger and freight services between Huddersfield and Westtown in Dewsbury, doubling tracks from 2 to 4.

My guess is the "full route" referred to is (at this stage) just the Huddersfield-Dewsbury upgrade.

PS Just noticed that the picture illustrating the DfT announcement is of semaphores at Severn Bridge Jn, Shrewsbury

 

[Snow1964]

Once complete, the TRU is expected to deliver multiple benefits, delivering an extra 2 passenger trains every hour and additional hourly freight slots. Upgrades are expected to service more reliable journeys and slash journey times by up to 40%. Northern Powerhouse Rail will be fully electrified, improving the local environment and air quality across the north.

Northern Powerhouse rail will be fully electrified
can someone remind me what lines that covers

The almost £1 billion will be spent on the remaining electrification of the railway between Stalybridge and Manchester and unlocking shorter journey times and trans-Pennine rail freight flows, with electric trains between Manchester and Stalybridge expected to hit the tracks around the middle of the decade.

Does having the words remaining electrification and rail freight flows in the same sentence mean electrically hauled freight.

And if plan is to take 4000 lorry trips of the road, how many extra rail wagons and electric rail locos will be needed.

Transport Secretary more than trebles investment for rail in the north to over £9 billion

Major boosts to funding for rail route upgrades in the north.

www.gov.uk

 

[modernrail]

As far as I can see this is just an announcement that Huddersfield-Dewsbury is approved/funded, and that Manchester-Stalybridge (presumably both routes) will go live by 2025.
Nothing whatever on what is planned for Stalybridge-Huddersfield or Dewsbury-Leeds-Church Fenton.
What are these 2 extra tph? Is this just a restoration of the 6tph 2019 timetable, or something better?
Presumably "full digital signalling" means ETCS, but over what distance? Liverpool-York? Stalybridge-Leeds? Diggle-Marsden?
Typing this just as Grant Shapps was on R4 promoting all his plans but giving no detail except to carp about Labour's 9-mile performance on electrification 1997-2010.



My guess is the "full route" referred to is (at this stage) just the Huddersfield-Dewsbury upgrade.

PS Just noticed that the picture illustrating the DfT announcement is of semaphores at Severn Bridge Jn, Shrewsbury

This is a disgraceful press release isn’t it. You genuinely can’t work out what is re announcement, announcement and aspiration. Really not very grown up stuff.

I am assuming they are not suggesting anything truly ‘announced’ yet gets you a 33 minute journey time Manchester to Leeds? I mean they obviously are but we can all agree they are not really?

God forbid they just be straight with people.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Northern Powerhouse rail will be fully electrified can someone remind me what lines that covers
Does having the words remaining electrification and rail freight flows in the same sentence mean electrically hauled freight.

NPR is (I think) Liverpool-York via the current TPE route, plus new connecting routes between Liverpool and HS2 via Warrington, and Manchester and Marsden east of the Standedge Tunnel.
I suspect the freight/electrification remarks are Network Rail's plans to accommodate full size (W12) freight, with some extra capacity (4-tracking) in key areas.
The route will be fully electrified, but whether the freight TOCs will want to use it is another matter.
They presently tend to use the Calder Valley route (more capacity, lower gradients).
Nor is it certain what the freight flows will be in 5-10 years' time.
The dominant Liverpool-Drax biomass traffic is not a guaranteed flow for eternity, in the present energy market.

The more I look at these announcements, the more I think it just relates to Huddersfield-Dewsbury and Vic/Pic-Stalybridge.
Maybe more will emerge when it gets announced to the Commons today.
It's all part of the "end of term" government announcements before the summer recess.

 

[Pinus contorta]

This is a disgraceful press release isn’t it. You genuinely can’t work out what is re announcement, announcement and aspiration. Really not very grown up stuff.

I am assuming they are not suggesting anything truly ‘announced’ yet gets you a 33 minute journey time Manchester to Leeds? I mean they obviously are but we can all agree they are not really?

God forbid they just be straight with people.

I wonder whether this sort of stuff gets put out in a rush because there is a fuss being kicked up amongst some politicians about the so called levelling up process. I seem to have to read a lot about levelling up ( or lack of it) and 'red wall' the last few days.

 

[plugwash]

The dominant Liverpool-Drax biomass traffic is not a guaranteed flow for eternity, in the present energy market.

Nothing is gauranteed for eternity, but we will need something to cover demand in low-wind winter conditions and gas has suddenly become a major geopolitical issue. Indeed the Government has recently announced deals to keep a number of coal power stations (including the coal units at Drax) operational through next winter.

 

[Starmill]

Nothing is gauranteed for eternity, but we will need something to cover demand in low-wind winter conditions and gas has suddenly become a major geopolitical issue. Indeed the Government has recently announced deals to keep a number of coal power stations (including the coal units at Drax) operational through next winter.

Yes but delivery of these projects is in the 2030s, so we would expect to have a radically different energy mix by then.

 

[Mikey C]

I wonder whether this sort of stuff gets put out in a rush because there is a fuss being kicked up amongst some politicians about the so called levelling up process. I seem to have to read a lot about levelling up ( or lack of it) and 'red wall' the last few days.

A poor day to put out a "good news" story anyway, when everyone is only interested in the heatwave and to a lesser extent the leadership election.

Today is more the sort of day to bury bad news...

 

[LittleAH]

I wonder whether this sort of stuff gets put out in a rush because there is a fuss being kicked up amongst some politicians about the so called levelling up process. I seem to have to read a lot about levelling up ( or lack of it) and 'red wall' the last few days.

Partially this from what I gather. But also the National Audit Office report into TRU is due out imminently.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So its over 1000 days now since Rail National Enhancements Pipeline document was updated which when or if it ever is may illuminate a bit more about what they mean by this. Anyhow guess Shapps knows that he won't be transport minister in six weeks so needs to go out with a few press releases showing what a great job he's done not.

 

[Backroom_boy]

So its over 1000 days now since Rail National Enhancements Pipeline document was updated which when or if it ever is may illuminate a bit more about what they mean by this. Anyhow guess Shapps knows that he won't be transport minister in six weeks so needs to go out with a few press releases showing what a great job he's done not.

Tbh as bad as he is, he's not the worst that's been. In recent years I'd only put Andrew Adonis and Patrick McLouglin above him.

 

[Purple Orange]

A poor day to put out a "good news" story anyway, when everyone is only interested in the heatwave and to a lesser extent the leadership election.

Today is more the sort of day to bury bad news...

It is bad news. This will represent a reduction in the combined NPR & TRU budget that was set at circa £20bn.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Tbh as bad as he is, he's not the worst that's been. In recent years I'd only put Andrew Adonis and Patrick McLouglin above him.

Yup thats reasonable assessment but he has latterly shown his true colours over wanting to take on the rail unions rather than seeking to work with the unions that previous SoS's did when the industry was confronted with true existential times ie Beeching

 

[John R]

This is a disgraceful press release isn’t it. You genuinely can’t work out what is re announcement, announcement and aspiration.

I suspect if you gave the Minister or author that feedback they would say “Job well done”.

 

[WAO]

I'm not sure that Grant Shapps or his PR people know much more than us. The first we knew about wires East of Man Vic was the new bridge easing the curve at the top of Miles Platting Bank and even then it was only a compound with OLE steelwork deliveries and then piling starting, that gave the game away. We didn't quite know how far, until piles started to appear at Ashton, by which time the PR people guessed/announced wiring to Stalybridge. Equally, down on the MML, OLE just randomly appears out of the mist, now to be only 3 miles short of Leicester!

Enjoy it!

WAO

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I initially interpreted the BBC article on the latest announcement as confirming full electrification across the Pennines. Have I misunderstood something, or does this mean a solution to the houses at Mossley and the tunnels at Stalybridge has been found?

 

[Purple Orange]

I initially interpreted the BBC article on the latest announcement as confirming full electrification across the Pennines. Have I misunderstood something, or does this mean a solution to the houses at Mossley and the tunnels at Stalybridge has been found?

Yet does that account for somewhere between £6bn and £7.5bn in increased investment? Or is there more to it than that?

 

[snowball]

I initially interpreted the BBC article on the latest announcement as confirming full electrification across the Pennines. Have I misunderstood something, or does this mean a solution to the houses at Mossley and the tunnels at Stalybridge has been found?

I think the IRP in November already said the existing route would be electrified throughout.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I initially interpreted the BBC article on the latest announcement as confirming full electrification across the Pennines. Have I misunderstood something, or does this mean a solution to the houses at Mossley and the tunnels at Stalybridge has been found?

I think there is now a firm commitment to wire the whole route, with significant funds available, but when and how the gaps will be plugged is still a mystery.
I doubt Network Rail knows itself really, until it has done enough design work and made a plan.
But full electrification, extra freight capacity and new signalling is a decent promise, even if Manchester-Stalybridge live by 2025 is not exactly pushing it.
The new NPR routes are more of a mystery, it may be a long time before a scheme is announceable (to avoid political and environmental rows over the route).