Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2

[Goldfish62]

It's of no concern to the Unions , who are only acting in the interests of members. I personally see strikes continuing indefinitely. That's the reality.

I know it's of no concern to the unions. I was just making a comment relevant to this thread.

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Customers do not get driven away. They just shrug there shoulders and get on the train when it's available.

Err... I've got two long distance trips coming up soon. I was going to use the train, but I don't want to risk my plans going up in smoke so I'm driving instead. I'm not changing my holiday dates to fit in with the railways.

 

[dk1]

that may have been true a few years ago, people were use to traveling by train, but this generation couldn't care less about the railways, they all have cars or most of them do, its more convenient. My daughter is the same, its all car, on a recent holiday she went on a train whilst there and "this is great" she also caught a bus and "this is great", but when i asked her if she would use either again when we returned home, "no the cars sitting there why bother".
The longer the strikes go on, the more people will lose interest in the railways, say you were taking the family for a day out, and all that involved, before covid great, everything running to time etc, now before the strikes like everything else you were not sure how late or even if the train would run.
You might get your rise, and conditions you want, but at what cost in the future? fares rises, less pax's, over staffing, then what?
Freight, look how the shops are closing because of online shopping, road transport has increased to cope with the demand local and long distant...
As you say i to have been interested in the railways, started 68yrs ago, worked on the railways for 28yrs, but nowadays i worry for its future...

I honestly can’t see it being any different now than it has been. Most people have had cars in the last 38 years & still they come back to rail. It will all work itself out until the next time.

 

[Moonshot]

I know it's of no concern to the unions. I was just making a comment relevant to this thread.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2022 ==


Err... I've got two long distance trips coming up soon. I was going to use the train, but I don't want to risk my plans going up in smoke so I'm driving instead. I'm not changing my holiday dates to fit in with the railways.

If the internal rumour mill is correct, there could well be a whole week of strikes first week in October. It coincides with the Tory Party conference in Birmingham. I could actually see that happening

 

[43066]

Err... I've got two long distance trips coming up soon. I was going to use the train, but I don't want to risk my plans going up in smoke so I'm driving instead. I'm not changing my holiday dates to fit in with the railways.

For the record, that is of course very regrettable. I would do the same as you at the moment and indeed know others who are doing similar.

The current situation is unsustainable and damaging and the government need to stop playing politics and allow sensible compromises to be negotiated.

 

[Goldfish62]

For the record, that is of course very regrettable. I would do the same as you at the moment and indeed know others who are doing similar.

The current situation is unsustainable and damaging and the government need to stop playing politics and allow sensible compromises to be negotiated.

Quite agree!

 

[exbrel]

How many more times - this is a thread about an industrial dispute. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PASSENGERS.

I don’t really care whether you continue to use the railways or not

and one from earlier "Ultimately a few hundred pounds here or there is little in the grand scheme of things.

do you work on the railway? customer services perhaps... strewth.

 

[43066]

and one from earlier "Ultimately a few hundred pounds here or there is little in the grand scheme of things.

do you work on the railway? customer services perhaps... strewth.

I was talking about railway staff losing money due to strikes, which has nothing to do with “customer service”. I’m completely at a loss as to what point you’re making?

Yes I do work on the railway as it happens. I see you’re ex railstaff. So you’ve enjoyed beneficial Ts and Cs for 30 years, now safely retired, and complaining online about current staff fighting for their livelihoods?

Strewth. So long as you’re alright, Jack.

 

[Bantamzen]

For the record, that is of course very regrettable. I would do the same as you at the moment and indeed know others who are doing similar.

The current situation is unsustainable and damaging and the government need to stop playing politics and allow sensible compromises to be negotiated.

Governments need to stop playing politics? Now that made me laugh out loud!!

When politicians stop playing politics I'll eat both my hats, and anyone else's.....

 

[43066]

Governments need to stop playing politics? Now that made me laugh out loud!!

When politicians stop playing politics I'll eat both my hats, and anyone else's.....

I’ll give you that one .

 

[Bertie the bus]

The current situation is unsustainable and damaging and the government need to stop playing politics and allow sensible compromises to be negotiated.

You could equally say the sooner some rail staff and their union stop living in some bizarre fantasy world the sooner this will all end. Some of the aspirations on this thread are laughable with people seeing a pay rise in double digits as achievable. Does anybody really think the government is going to offer NHS staff and the police around 4-5% but offer people who open and close the doors on trains twice that?

 

[ar10642]

How many more times - this is a thread about an industrial dispute. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PASSENGERS.

That would only be true if there were no passengers. The service is going to unavailable as a result of these ongoing strikes so actually it has everything to do with passengers. Unless you're a freight driver your whole job only exists because of passengers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If the internal rumour mill is correct, there could well be a whole week of strikes first week in October. It coincides with the Tory Party conference in Birmingham. I could actually see that happening

That will be extremely good news to the Conservative Party delegates and politicians who will milk that proposed whole week action for as much as they can during that conference....

 

[43066]

Some of the aspirations on this thread are laughable with people seeing a pay rise in double digits as achievable.

It’s not an aspiration, it’s a negotiating position. Do you understand what a negotiation is?

Does anybody really think the government is going to offer NHS staff and the police around 4-5% but offer people who open and close the doors on trains twice that?

“People who open who close the doors on trains”. Such a condescending and insulting description of a job you clearly have no understanding of says it all about your motives. You can trivialise any job by describing it in terms of its most basic functions: I know plenty of people who get very well paid indeed for just “sitting in a chair pushing some buttons on a computer keyboard”.

From your username, I assuming you’re a bus driver? What is that expression about people in glass houses throwing stones?!

That would only be true if there were no passengers. The service is going to unavailable as a result of these ongoing strikes so actually it has everything to do with passengers. Unless you're a freight driver your whole job only exists because of passengers.

You still don’t appear to be grasping the point I’m making.

Passengers are obviously affected but they are not a party to an industrial dispute. It is between the unions who represent their members - NOT passengers - and their employer. You attack the unions apparently ignore the role of employer (who are the ones with a duty to you as a passenger) and of course the government standing behind them…

If you’re being inconvenienced that’s down to government policy and TOC intransigence, yet you choose to continually attack the unions.

Why is that?

 

[ar10642]

If you’re being inconvenienced that’s down to government policy and TOC intransigence, yet you choose to continually attack the unions.

Why is that?

Because it's a fight you're obviously not going to win and yet the unions plough on regardless. The government has essentially unlimited resources and isn't going to give the railway double digit increases at a time when revenue is significantly down and the treasury are looking to claw back money. You all wanted nationalisation, well, here it is.

 

[43066]

Because it's a fight you're obviously not going to win and yet the unions plough on regardless.

You’re now completely changing your argument? How about acknowledging the points I’ve made?

It’s basically a waste of time discussing industrial disputes with someone who clearly doesn’t understand the first thing about them.

 

[ar10642]

You’re now completely changing your argument?

No. My position has always been the strikes are pointless because you won't win and you're driving away customers and by extension the need for your own jobs.

 

[Moonshot]

No. My position has always been the strikes are pointless because you won't win and you're driving away customers and by extension the need for your own jobs.

Absolute garbage. Strikes will go on until eventually a settlement is reached. Once that happens passengers will just carry on as if nothing had happened. Which has always been the case

 

[ar10642]

Absolute garbage. Strikes will go on until eventually a settlement is reached. Once that happens passengers will just carry on as if nothing had happened. Which has always been the case

Why? The government can just sit there and bleed the unions dry. Every day the trains don't run they save money.

 

[mandub]

What difference does it make to passengers? The train's either working or it's not. I don't really care about the internal squabbles.



For an industry that doesn't enjoy going on strike, it sure goes on a lot of strikes.

Last drivers strike at my TOC was 20 years ago.

 

[ar10642]

Last drivers strike at my TOC was 20 years ago.

Google "list of rail strikes UK", quite a lot of reading to get through there.

 

[43066]

No. My position has always been the strikes are pointless because you won't win and you're driving away customers and by extension the need for your own jobs.

But that’s an opinion based on knowing nothing about the industry and appears to be purely based on own strangely biased view of railstaff and unions. 90% of my colleagues disagree with your view, as do their unions! The reasons why have been patiently explained time and again yet you ignore them. What’s there really left to discuss?!

Why do you care so much anyway? You’ve said you don’t like the railway and won’t be using it anymore. Unless you’re just trying to provoke a reaction?

 

[Richardr]

Why? The government can just sit there and bleed the unions dry. Every day the trains don't run they save money.

Are you sure that is the case? There are all the other costs still to pay, many of which are fixed - stations, rolling stock, non-striking staff, for example - whilst passenger income is eliminated.

 

[Gostav]

I think there are questions should be know:

1. How many people use public transport as only way for travel in this country?
2. How many people support or/and sympathize with railway employees？

When the trade unions want fighting, they must clearly see their goals.

 

[Moonshot]

Why? The government can just sit there and bleed the unions dry. Every day the trains don't run they save money.

No they don't. As has been pointed out a few times now. As it stands now, Unions have a position A......DFT have a position C. Eventually a position B will be reached probably some time next year). One of the reasons that drivers can now earn £100 k salaries is the very fact that ASLEF have put down markers over the years and strived to achieve them

 

[Fokx]

I think you need to check your facts there before writing things that are untrue.

Apologies it was based on a post that I had seen circulating on social media.

He actually took a pay cut down to £557k and it’s since rose back to £590k a 5.9% increase on his Covid-19 salary

 

[XIX7007177]

Apologies it was based on a post that I had seen circulating on social media.

He actually took a pay cut down to £557k and it’s since rose back to £590k a 5.9% increase on his Covid-19 salary

Must be tough for him.

 

[43066]

One of the reasons that drivers can now earn £100 k salaries is the very fact that ASLEF have put down markers over the years and strived to achieve them

Point of order. That wouldn’t be a basic salary anywhere, £100k would only be achievable with *a lot* of overtime.

 

[Bantamzen]

Absolute garbage. Strikes will go on until eventually a settlement is reached. Once that happens passengers will just carry on as if nothing had happened. Which has always been the case

Just like before, you mean private companies giving up on running TOCs, ongoing disputes over T&Cs / rest day / Sunday working, cancellations, delayed projects, more cancellations, reduced service, delays, delays, delays, above inflation ticket price rises..... Yeah great..... Can't wait.....

Seriously though, is this how the railways are always going to be run? Because from a passenger perspective things weren't exactly going great for much of the nation's railways. It was already starting to look like a complete basket case from a private sector perspective, and when more public funds were released to stop these operations going under the whole situation gets worse again. The industry is literally rattling itself apart & the best answer the union leadership can give is to organise strikes right when leisure travel demand is at it's highest, literally risking alienating the very people the industry needs to part with it's hard earned. And the reason given? It'll be just like the good old days, the punters will just herd back. Hmmmm...

Just consider one thing, what if they don't? What if a combination of covid-fatigue, worse than ever reliability on the rails, higher fares and rampant inflation is the straw that breaks the back of enough punters? Don't just dismiss it out of hand because of the past, it is a very real possibility in a very different future.

 

[Signal_Box]

The signalling grade do seem to be in the greatest position of strength. I wonder if the RMT could leverage that further.

Some very rough maths from (probably inaccurate) google suggests there may be roughly 5,000 signallers out of 40,000 strikers at a 1 in 8 ratio.

I'm not a lawyer and probably talking unworkable rubbish, but could the RMT keep signallers on strike whilst allowing everyone else to work. Temporarily up the union subs by say £50 a month, which could be used to pay each signaller £400 in strike pay a month indefinitely.

That could buy them a few days without trains each month for a £50 cost to each member. It would probably require re-balloting with very careful wording to incorporate all of the RMT's issues into the signallers ballot to make it legal etc, but could strengthen the RMT's position if this is going to turn into a drawn out saga.

It may also keep the signallers onside whilst fighting for other grades as the way to end such action would be to make the signallers in particular an offer they can't turn down.

Two words - bugger and off!

I’m not a pawn in a game played by the union thanks.

 

[Starmill]

If the internal rumour mill is correct, there could well be a whole week of strikes first week in October. It coincides with the Tory Party conference in Birmingham. I could actually see that happening

There could be a strike lasting a fortnight, or a month, or two months on alternating days. At the moment there's deadlock so it won't be likely to 'move the dial'.

Historically it has been common for strike action to be of an indeterminate duration. This is rather less likely but still possible.