Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2

[Falcon1200]

Nobody wants to work weekends as overtime. It's that simple.

That was not true when I worked for the railway (until 2016) and I very much doubt it is true now.

I myself will not work a Saturday, and will avoid Sundays as well if I can

Which is perfectly fine, as long as your chosen role does not require Saturday or Sunday working....

I dare say if BR was still around it would have been sorted years ago.

I very much doubt that too, BR depended on overtime throughout my time (in differing roles) with the organisation, 1978-1994 (and from 1948 to 1978 as well, of course).

Just like the number of misrouted trains is likely to be significantly higher as a proportion of trains run when the RMT signallers are on strike and managers are trying to operate the signal boxes/panels/PSBs/etc.

During the 1994 Signallers' strike there were certainly wrong routings, which the RMT made sure got reported to the press (knowing that Railtrack was very unlikely to say that these were also a regular occurrence when the Signallers were on duty !), but as the strike progressed the managers became more familiar with the service and things ran much more smoothly.

 

[Moonshot]

That was not true when I worked for the railway (until 2016) and I very much doubt it is true now.



Which is perfectly fine, as long as your chosen role does not require Saturday or Sunday working....



I very much doubt that too, BR depended on overtime throughout my time (in differing roles) with the organisation, 1978-1994 (and from 1948 to 1978 as well, of course).



During the 1994 Signallers' strike there were certainly wrong routings, which the RMT made sure got reported to the press (knowing that Railtrack was very unlikely to say that these were also a regular occurrence when the Signallers were on duty !), but as the strike progressed the managers became more familiar with the service and things ran much more smoothly.

My chosen role mandates that I work 2 out of 3 Saturdays and 1 in 6 Sundays. I certainly don't work anymore than that

 

[Fokx]

I think that's the aim. I think the government wants to incite unofficial action so it can go, "See, look at them - hooligans!"

That still would not be unofficial action, that would be me and my colleagues making our own decision individually on should we (individually) make ourselves available to accept overtime.

No doubt it would be painted that way though

 

[Falcon1200]

My chosen role mandates that I work 2 out of 3 Saturdays and 1 in 6 Sundays. I certainly don't work anymore than that

So to clarify, what you meant in the statement I quoted is that you will not work a non-rostered Saturday or Sunday; Which is of course entirely your choice and perfectly acceptable.

 

[Starmill]

So to clarify, what you meant in the statement I quoted is that you will not work a non-rostered Saturday or Sunday; Which is of course entirely your choice and perfectly acceptable.

Must be a sizeable proportion of people for whom that applies too. It's not entirely clear what the point being made is.

 

[43066]

but there also has to be some realism here. Right now the economic situation is looking dire for all of us, and I'm certain we'd all love an inflation busting pay rise to counter it. But the bottom line is that these strikes are not only hurting the passengers, but those businesses that rely on said punters being tipped off the trains. And the expectation of better-than-inflation pay rises will simply translate into higher fares, leading to fewer passengers, leading to more disputes on the railways, ultimately leading to fewer service needed, and fewer staff needed to run them.

For abont the millionth time of repeating (!) nobody is expecting inflation busting rises, it’s a negotiating position. Just look at the amounts that have been accepted where deals have been allowed to be agreed without DfT politicking.

I don’t think your assertion that higher fares equals fewer passengers is at all reflected in reality. Fares have increased for years, yet passenger numbers have also risen year on year. Covid is now a distant memory for most of us, fares have increased again, and we’re almost back to the same revue and passenger numbers as we were in 2019.

We’re all having to get used to paying more for things, train fares are no different.

 

[exbrel]

That's down to the powers that be actually sorting that out ....which will invariably mean recruiting more staff. And more expense ....and dearer tickets

and when thats all happened , and there's no more need of o/t or rest day working, will everyone then be happy?

 

[43066]

and when thats all happened , and there's no more need of o/t or rest day working, will everyone then be happy?

Sort of an irrelevant question when it’s simply not going to happen! From we’ve seen so far GBR wants to move to committed Sundays ie continuing to rely on overtime…

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We’re all having to get used to paying more for things, train fares are no different.

With regards to the leisure travel of passengers, they can keep the same annual financial outlay figure as before by the simple expedient of making fewer leisure rail journeys.

 

[Need2]

So to clarify, what you meant in the statement I quoted is that you will not work a non-rostered Saturday or Sunday; Which is of course entirely your choice and perfectly acceptable.

Not for Grant

 

[Moonshot]

Sort of an irrelevant question when it’s simply not going to happen! From we’ve seen so far GBR wants to move to committed Sundays ie continuing to rely on overtime…

That is definitely the impression I have as well......

and when thats all happened , and there's no more need of o/t or rest day working, will everyone then be happy?

That seems to be the consensus. Having every single UK service covered by non overtime staff would on paper be the most robust plan. Whether that happens or not I have no idea

Must be a sizeable proportion of people for whom that applies too. It's not entirely clear what the point being made is.

Obviously not something that applies to yourself

 

[Starmill]

Obviously not something that applies to yourself

Oh really? How very interesting. Perhaps you could share with me full details of what my job entails given you seem to know so much?

 

[tomuk]

The employer is still breaking the previously agreed contract of employment. And will be breaking other legal agreements with the respective unions. The employer also risks industrial action and that important or essential staff may not continue with the employer, either of which could significantly compromise the business of the employer.

There was industrial action and a strike at Shropshire Council, it didn't stops the fire and rehire, as the strike a couple of years earlier didn't stop the local government pension scheme being downgraded.
After the fire and rehire went through and everybody had worse redundancy rights, i.e. less money, they went ahead and made compulsory redundancies of nearly 2000 people.

 

[43066]

With regards to the leisure travel of passengers, they can keep the same annual financial outlay figure as before by the simple expedient of making fewer leisure rail journeys.

They might. But then they might also find that the train is now cheaper than driving given the enormous increase in fuel costs over the past few months.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They might. But then they might also find that the train is now cheaper than driving given the enormous increase in fuel costs over the past few months.

If that be the case, they would apply the same logic to driving to leisure places. Costs are costs whatsoever way you look at it. Do you see fuel costs staying at their currently high level for the foreseeable future? The thought would also be in the minds of many that train travel is one that is unreliable at this moment in time and subject to the whims of those who disrupt travel matters, commuting or leisure, at a time to cause most disruption.

 

[TUC]

Oh, and the reason that employers don’t employ enough staff to run the service without overtime working is simple, it’s significantly cheaper to have a smaller number of permanent staff working some overtime compared to employing the correct number of permanent full time employees.

Although having far more part-time or flexible staff could be a viable option, especially for staff either miving towards retirement or with family commitments (which could be existing or newly recruited flexible staff).

 

[6Gman]

I too would like to know which are the MP rest days.

Being generous one could point out that a lot of them do local surgeries on Saturday mornings which would mean a five and a half day week.

On the other hand, have you seen how few attend debates on Fridays . . . ?

 

[Cowley]

OK then folks. We’ve reached the point where everyone has had their say on this for now (65 pages worth).
So we’re going to draw it to a close for now but we’ll look at opening a new one as and when there’s more news.

Thanks for contributing in the spirit it was intended (mainly anyway ).