carriageline
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 1,897
“Railway workers do not need breaks through the day, how archaic is that!!”
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2
- Thread starter ainsworth74
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Falcon1200
Established Member
As I also posted in the Avanti cancellations topic, is it possible that what Shapps is referring to, extremely unclearly, is Unions withdrawing from overtime agreements (regardless of whether staff actually want to work overtime or not), such as the RMT dispute with Scotrail which eradicated Sunday trains for months ?
That is quite possible as well, of course !
martin2345uk
Established Member
What happens if a driver refused to work a committed-overtime Sunday? Sundays are inside for us so I still don't quite get the finer points of the arrangement...
irish_rail
Established Member
I think the unbelievable incompetence of the current cabinet is really coming home to roost.
Is Shapps genuinely enraged that workers have decided to not work overtime?
So by sound if it, rail staff will need to work 7 days a week and never have days off. Its just bizarre. Its time he gets the hell out of my industry ( and he can take that Wilkinson fella with him too lol )
Is Shapps genuinely enraged that workers have decided to not work overtime?
So by sound if it, rail staff will need to work 7 days a week and never have days off. Its just bizarre. Its time he gets the hell out of my industry ( and he can take that Wilkinson fella with him too lol )
It would be a breach of your contract. Do it once you might get a warning. Keep doing it and they will probably dismiss you.
Basically you are contracted, and thus expected, to work them unless there is (or you can find) suitable cover. As for what happens, probably nothing good. Imagine you agree to work your rest day but call up a day before and say you don't want to do it any more.
dk1
Veteran Member
I’ve never known anything get taken too far. As said perhaps a warning. There are several who don’t do many & if it’s for something important just say why & that they will not be coming in if declined. Our shift managers go over & above to get us off even if the roster clerk can’t.
Thanks.
Another question for you all, which has probably been answered on one of the 62 other pages of this thread, so apologies, if I was to book advance tickets now for either the 3rd or 10th September and closer to the dates, strikes are announced, what is the score in regards to refunds?
dk1
Veteran Member
Hopefully someone else can help. Not my field I’m afraid.
You would be entitled to a fee free refund, or use them on the day before and a couple of days after the strike if you chose to do so.
SJN
Member
But in this case the union haven’t withdrawn from the agreement. It’s the summer holidays. Is it really that surprising that less people are offering to do overtime?
The overtime issue is more that it should purely relate to additional hours worked over and above the contractual requirement. It should have nothing to do with what day of the week it is. Anyone who comes to work in the rail industry can see that by its very nature it is a seven days a week business they are joining.
Less archaic than the summer recess of Parliament!
Especially given that just the other day a Minister was complaining that they'd run out of time to discuss something of importance to the government.
Can someone advise me of the dates that Parliament is striking over the summer because the MP's have decided not work their rest days? Thanks in advance.
SJN
Member
It is a 7 day business and the train crew know this. Sundays are still paid as overtime though for many TOC’s. A lot of staff are committed to work so many through the year but they don’t have to volunteer to do more.
Annetts key
Established Member
The employer is still breaking the previously agreed contract of employment. And will be breaking other legal agreements with the respective unions. The employer also risks industrial action and that important or essential staff may not continue with the employer, either of which could significantly compromise the business of the employer.
No, it’s determined by the contract of employment and any collective bargaining agreements and T&Cs agreed between the employer and the respective unions.
The railways have been a seven day a week operation for centuries, long before anyone even considered Sunday to be part of the normal working week.
In the past, the employer asked for volunteers and if there was good industrial relations, generally enough employees made themselves available. Hence there was no problem.
This still applies for staff on their free days / rest days unless they have agreed to work it or working it is part of a collective agreement or in the T&Cs.
Last edited:
Nonsense.
People (rightly) cannot be compelled to work overtime on their rostered days off, and people who have signed contracts with Sundays outside (which by the way the TOCs not the unions wanted) have every right for that that to continue to be honoured.
It’s down to TOCs to employ enough drivers to run their service. If they fail to do that, it’s on then. The way people seem to want to blame staff and unions while ignoring this reality is extraordinary.
Last edited:
Annetts key
Established Member
Oh, and the reason that employers don’t employ enough staff to run the service without overtime working is simple, it’s significantly cheaper to have a smaller number of permanent staff working some overtime compared to employing the correct number of permanent full time employees.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Or in other words some staff are too expensive to employ in sufficient numbers to cover all rotas without overtime.....
Also it takes time to recruit new staff and so without such flexibility passengers would find the rail network less able to provide the level of service that's required almost every time a member of staff left or was sick or was unable to work as expected.
Na, it's a highly skilled job where thousands fail recruitment so it's difficult to employ. With staff leaving because they don't get paid enough so turnover always exacerbates the issue.Or in other words some staff are too expensive to employ in sufficient numbers to cover all rotas without overtime.....
Bantamzen
Established Member
Its not that hard to learn how to drink tea and push levers surely...Na, it's a highly skilled job where thousands fail recruitment so it's difficult to employ. With staff leaving because they don't get paid enough so turnover always exacerbates the issue.
Its not that hard to learn how to drink tea and push levers surely...
...and push colour coded buttons.
The driving is the easy part, a child could do it.
Maybe they could lower the entry requirent to 18.
Bit broad. I don't mind working Saturdays, and I love working Sundays. Saturdays can be hard work but I don't like doing leisure activities on my own steam anyway because things are too busy. May as well make some overtime.
Sundays have always been money for old rope for years. More money for less work. I agree they should be sorted out, it is a fair point that providing a train service shouldn't balance on staff wishing to do so. How to do that should of course be negotiated.
I myself will not work a Saturday, and will avoid Sundays as well if I can
That's isn't nobody then
Sundays have always been well subscribed here, with the odd argument about weather work has been correctly dished out etc.I enjoy my weekday rest days the most. Nothing worse than being jostled by people in pubs, shops or anywhere else.
It isn't a question of whether people want to. It should be recognised that the nature of public transport is that it is a seven day a week business by its very nature in terms of pssenger requirements. Plenty of other industries long ago reflected that. There is no logical reason why rail should be any different.
- Status