carriageline
Established Member
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- 11 Jan 2012
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“Railway workers do not need breaks through the day, how archaic is that!!”
He says it is unacceptable that drivers are not volunteering to work on their rest days. What possible other interpretation is there except for that he thinks workers should be able to be compelled to do so? Ignore all the nonsense about "unofficial strikes", which is a silly diversion.
Admittedly, it is Grant Shapps so he has probably not actually thought this through...
It would be a breach of your contract. Do it once you might get a warning. Keep doing it and they will probably dismiss you.What happens if a driver refused to work a committed-overtime Sunday? Sundays are inside for us so I still don't quite get the finer points of the arrangement...
What happens if a driver refused to work a committed-overtime Sunday? Sundays are inside for us so I still don't quite get the finer points of the arrangement...
I’ve never known anything get taken too far. As said perhaps a warning. There are several who don’t do many & if it’s for something important just say why & that they will not be coming in if declined. Our shift managers go over & above to get us off even if the roster clerk can’t.What happens if a driver refused to work a committed-overtime Sunday? Sundays are inside for us so I still don't quite get the finer points of the arrangement...
Unlikely as it’s a massive grey area. There’s loads the regularly don’t turn in and nothing happens. If every did their booked Sunday it wouldn’t be a problem.It would be a breach of your contract. Do it once you might get a warning. Keep doing it and they will probably dismiss you.
Not yet. You’ll need to wait a bit longer for any news on those dates.
Hopefully someone else can help. Not my field I’m afraid.Thanks.
Another question for you all, which has probably been answered on one of the 62 other pages of this thread, so apologies, if I was to book advance tickets now for either the 3rd or 10th September and closer to the dates, strikes are announced, what is the score in regards to refunds?
You would be entitled to a fee free refund, or use them on the day before and a couple of days after the strike if you chose to do so.Thanks.
Another question for you all, which has probably been answered on one of the 62 other pages of this thread, so apologies, if I was to book advance tickets now for either the 3rd or 10th September and closer to the dates, strikes are announced, what is the score in regards to refunds?
Assuming your contract doesn’t allow such variations in Ts&Cs (if it did, they wouldn’t have to fire you), then fire and rehire is redundancy. They’re making your old position redundant and inviting you to apply for a new one. At which point the statutory redundancy procedures kick in. Not doing so opens them up to unfair dismissal claims.
Certainly in P&O and BG they paid redundancy, https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/shropshire-council-issues-redundancy-notices-to-all-6500-staff/ mentions notices going out but I haven’t found an article on what happened next.
https://www.thehrkiosk.co.uk/large-scale-dismissals-legal/Unfortunately there was some mis-reporting of the news story in the sense that this was described as mass–‘redundancies’. It will be a mass dismissal but it will not be a redundancy situation as the staffs’ jobs will still exist on and after the date of dismissal. The Council have described their action as ‘dismissal and re-engagement’. This is an important distinction because it means that if staff do not accept the new contracts they will be dismissed and they will not be entitled to any compensation pay.
The Council are using a legally valid fair ‘reason’ for dismissal that is called ‘Some Other Substantial Reason’ (SOSR) from the Employment Rights Act of 1996
But in this case the union haven’t withdrawn from the agreement. It’s the summer holidays. Is it really that surprising that less people are offering to do overtime?As I also posted in the Avanti cancellations topic, is it possible that what Shapps is referring to, extremely unclearly, is Unions withdrawing from overtime agreements (regardless of whether staff actually want to work overtime or not), such as the RMT dispute with Scotrail which eradicated Sunday trains for months ?
That is quite possible as well, of course !
“Railway workers do not need breaks through the day, how archaic is that!!”
It is a 7 day business and the train crew know this. Sundays are still paid as overtime though for many TOC’s. A lot of staff are committed to work so many through the year but they don’t have to volunteer to do more.The overtime issue is more that it should purely relate to additional hours worked over and above the contractual requirement. It should have nothing to do with what day of the week it is. Anyone who comes to work in the rail industry can see that by its very nature it is a seven days a week business they are joining.
The employer is still breaking the previously agreed contract of employment. And will be breaking other legal agreements with the respective unions. The employer also risks industrial action and that important or essential staff may not continue with the employer, either of which could significantly compromise the business of the employer.Assuming your contract doesn’t allow such variations in Ts&Cs (if it did, they wouldn’t have to fire you), then fire and rehire is redundancy. They’re making your old position redundant and inviting you to apply for a new one. At which point the statutory redundancy procedures kick in. Not doing so opens them up to unfair dismissal claims.
Certainly in P&O and BG they paid redundancy, https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/shropshire-council-issues-redundancy-notices-to-all-6500-staff/ mentions notices going out but I haven’t found an article on what happened next.https://www.thehrkiosk.co.uk/large-scale-dismissals-legal/Unfortunately there was some mis-reporting of the news story in the sense that this was described as mass–‘redundancies’. It will be a mass dismissal but it will not be a redundancy situation as the staffs’ jobs will still exist on and after the date of dismissal. The Council have described their action as ‘dismissal and re-engagement’. This is an important distinction because it means that if staff do not accept the new contracts they will be dismissed and they will not be entitled to any compensation pay.
The Council are using a legally valid fair ‘reason’ for dismissal that is called ‘Some Other Substantial Reason’ (SOSR) from the Employment Rights Act of 1996
No, it’s determined by the contract of employment and any collective bargaining agreements and T&Cs agreed between the employer and the respective unions.Anyone who comes to work in the rail industry can see that by its very nature it is a seven days a week business they are joining.
The overtime issue is more that it should purely relate to additional hours worked over and above the contractual requirement. It should have nothing to do with what day of the week it is. Anyone who comes to work in the rail industry can see that by its very nature it is a seven days a week business they are joining.
Or in other words some staff are too expensive to employ in sufficient numbers to cover all rotas without overtime.....Oh, and the reason that employers don’t employ enough staff to run the service without overtime working is simple, it’s significantly cheaper to have a smaller number of permanent staff working some overtime compared to employing the correct number of permanent full time employees.
Oh, and the reason that employers don’t employ enough staff to run the service without overtime working is simple, it’s significantly cheaper to have a smaller number of permanent staff working some overtime compared to employing the correct number of permanent full time employees.
Na, it's a highly skilled job where thousands fail recruitment so it's difficult to employ. With staff leaving because they don't get paid enough so turnover always exacerbates the issue.Or in other words some staff are too expensive to employ in sufficient numbers to cover all rotas without overtime.....
Its not that hard to learn how to drink tea and push levers surely...Na, it's a highly skilled job where thousands fail recruitment so it's difficult to employ. With staff leaving because they don't get paid enough so turnover always exacerbates the issue.
Nobody wants to work weekends as overtime. It's that simple.The overtime issue is more that it should purely relate to additional hours worked over and above the contractual requirement. It should have nothing to do with what day of the week it is. Anyone who comes to work in the rail industry can see that by its very nature it is a seven days a week business they are joining.
Its not that hard to learn how to drink tea and push levers surely...
Bit broad. I don't mind working Saturdays, and I love working Sundays. Saturdays can be hard work but I don't like doing leisure activities on my own steam anyway because things are too busy. May as well make some overtime.Nobody wants to work weekends as overtime. It's that simple.
I myself will not work a Saturday, and will avoid Sundays as well if I canBit broad. I don't mind working Saturdays, and I love working Sundays. Saturdays can be hard work but I don't like doing leisure activities on my own steam anyway because things are too busy. May as well make some overtime.
Sundays have always been money for old rope for years. More money for less work. I agree they should be sorted out, it is a fair point that providing a train service shouldn't balance on staff wishing to do so. How to do that should of course be negotiated.
That's isn't nobody then Sundays have always been well subscribed here, with the odd argument about weather work has been correctly dished out etc.I myself will not work a Saturday, and will avoid Sundays as well if I can
It isn't a question of whether people want to. It should be recognised that the nature of public transport is that it is a seven day a week business by its very nature in terms of pssenger requirements. Plenty of other industries long ago reflected that. There is no logical reason why rail should be any different.Nobody wants to work weekends as overtime. It's that simple.
That's down to the powers that be actually sorting that out ....which will invariably mean recruiting more staff. And more expense ....and dearer ticketsIt isn't a question of whether people want to. It should be recognised that the nature of public transport is that it is a seven day a week business by its very nature in terms of pssenger requirements. Plenty of other industries long ago reflected that. There is no logical reason why rail should be any different.