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Avanti West Coast cancellations

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Bletchleyite

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From an operational point of view you are right; but from the passenger's point of view this seems utterly unacceptable. I think the media are saturated with plenty of other, high-profile news at the moment; but I do believe the WCML (north of Preston) deserves far more attention, to put the spotlight on Avanti and government.

It's unacceptable that things have got this bad, but as a passenger 4tpd that will actually run is better than 1tph of which only 4tpd or so actually run, but randomly so I can't plan.

As a comparison, I would like to drive at 70mph on the motorway, but if it's really busy sticking 40 on the gantries really does work compared with old style non managed motorways.
 
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Dryce

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People often boast of never having a sick day in x number of years but that usually means at least one of three things: they've got a flawless immune system, they regularly go into work ill and spread their germs, or they book annual/flexi leave when they're unwell.

On a project I had a discussion with a NHS manager who made the comment that attendance was much better from contractors compared with staff. Contractors would be able to come in from long distances in winter weather - staff wouldn't manage a couple of miles.

In the real world it's about money. If people only got paid SSP by employers then staff sickness/attendance patterns would be different.
 

Bletchleyite

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In the real world it's about money. If people only got paid SSP by employers then staff sickness/attendance patterns would be different.

80% as per furlough might well actually have a big influence on abuse of sick pay without causing people to come in on their deathbed (consider how charging just 10p, for most a throwaway sum, for carrier bags has influenced behaviour). Since the pandemic I have argued that that should be statutory sick pay.
 

jfollows

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On a project I had a discussion with a NHS manager who made the comment that attendance was much better from contractors compared with staff. Contractors would be able to come in from long distances in winter weather - staff wouldn't manage a couple of miles.
I ran my own company and worked for myself for a couple of years after leaving employment after 31 years; the motivation is totally different. I wasn't doing it as an IR35 wheeze (in which I'd have been taking the benefits of self-employment in a job which was really as if I were an employee) but it was my sole source of income, no sick pay, no paid holiday etc. Essentially I was managing projects and only being paid on completion of defined work items, so if I didn't work then it wouldn't have happened. Mind you, I wasn't in the habit of taking time off sick prior to that when I was in employment.
 

Falcon1200

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Does it get much attention in the Scottish press, that the service to Glasgow is sub- standard? Are the Scottish Politicians paying much attention?

The disruption caused by the recent extreme heat did, with reports from Glasgow Central of the long queues, but of the disruption at other times, nothing at all that I have seen.
 
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The disruption caused by the recent extreme heat did, with reports from Glasgow Central of the long queues, but of the disruption at other times, nothing at all that I have seen.
The trains get some attention from the lib dem guy here in Cumbria in the press. I guess some of the press in Scotland is similar to round here, in that it is a lot of twitter quotes, and not much else of note.
 

Agent_Squash

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The trains get some attention from the lib dem guy here in Cumbria in the press. I guess some of the press in Scotland is similar to round here, in that it is a lot of twitter quotes, and not much else of note.
Tim needs to complain about something now the Lakes line has a reliable hourly 195 service!
 

AndrewE

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I should be on the 0909 Crewe to Edinburgh on the 6th August... Last Saturday it started at Preston so I have just looked at the NR journey planner for a train the get me to Pretson in time in case the same thing happens again and the 0909 is missing. It offers me an 0754 and an 0821 direct and then 0828 and 0911 via Manchester taking 1hr 37.
However RealTime Trains shows the 0909 running throughout, although on a STP schedule. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:S53305/2022-08-06/detailed
What should I expect? I really need to be in Edinburgh by 12.45.
Thanks for all the help...
Now I find that the 0909 is back on the NR journey planner, although still shown as a STP schedule on RTT.
I did wonder whether they had taken it out and made it STP just to stop people being able to book advance tickets to use it or get reservations... If so, it's not the way you expect a publicly-funded utility to behave!
A
 

londonmidland

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Further cancellations for tomorrow. Not sure if it’s been announced publicly yet but I expect it to do shortly, if not done already.

A quick glance sees quite a few services to/from Wolverhampton and Manchester cancelled, as well as the all too familiar theme of trains starting/terminating at Preston.
 

Kite159

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On a project I had a discussion with a NHS manager who made the comment that attendance was much better from contractors compared with staff. Contractors would be able to come in from long distances in winter weather - staff wouldn't manage a couple of miles.

In the real world it's about money. If people only got paid SSP by employers then staff sickness/attendance patterns would be different.

Add on any potential absence management systems the contractor's employer might have in place. For example 3 periods of absence (or a lost time rate of more than 5%) within a rolling 12 month period is required to be investigated where I work.

But I agree, where I work management level get company sick pay from day 1, most of the other staff get sick pay from the 2nd day [so the first day is unpaid]. Some of the management types do tend to be off sick more compared to the other staff who lose money if they have to take a day off (so they tend to dose themselves up on drugs)
 

Bletchleyite

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Further cancellations for tomorrow. Not sure if it’s been announced publicly yet but I expect it to do shortly, if not done already.

A quick glance sees quite a few services to/from Wolverhampton and Manchester cancelled, as well as the all too familiar theme of trains starting/terminating at Preston.

Are they likely to be put on the system overnight or to be random? I'm going to Brum tomorrow and fancy trying to seek out a refurbished Pendolino on the way (normally I'd use LNR).
 

londonmidland

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Are they likely to be put on the system overnight or to be random? I'm going to Brum tomorrow and fancy trying to seek out a refurbished Pendolino on the way (normally I'd use LNR).
I assume they’ll be put in ASAP with the public online timetable displaying these alterations.

Try checking post-midnight to see if they’ve gone live on departure apps.
 

Agent_Squash

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Nearly every train on the Lakes Line was cancelled today. Do we know why?
Of course the day I decided to point out the relative return to reliability on the Lakes line it falls apart! :D

In all seriousness - in the South Lakes in particular, the IC operator was always viewed to be reliable and the local Northern services a mess. The local services at least have the benefit of reasonable buses (2bph between Kendal and Windermere, which lets face it is the local travel demand). But with Avanti and TPE falling apart, the impact is far greater than having to catch a bus - it'll have a massive impact on Lakes tourism recovery.
 

D1537

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Are they likely to be put on the system overnight or to be random? I'm going to Brum tomorrow and fancy trying to seek out a refurbished Pendolino on the way (normally I'd use LNR).
Seven of the refurbs were out today, of those 390148 ended up at Oxley so you might want to search for that unit in RTT tomorrow morning.
The others will end up at the following places: 390123/124/155/156 Manchester, 390157 Liverpool, 390154 Glasgow. So none at the London end unless the two that weren't out (125/131) are there.

It's not quite that bad - the 1640 is running GLC-PRE and the 1740 is running PRE-EUS.

There's also the option of getting the 9M19 1840 GLC-COV throughout and then 1B50 2315 BHM-EUS Commonwealth Games additional.

Still not brilliant, of course.
Yeah, that didn't go well - the 1640 ended up 88 late at Preston, and the pseudo-1740 had to wait for it. It's then met another delay at Wigan and is now 54 late.
Meanwhile, the last EUS-GLC (1S95) was caped at Preston due to a "planning error" and is running ECS to Polmadie. So road transport there I presume...
 

Bletchleyite

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Seven of the refurbs were out today, of those 390148 ended up at Oxley so you might want to search for that unit in RTT tomorrow morning.
The others will end up at the following places: 390123/124/155/156 Manchester, 390157 Liverpool, 390154 Glasgow. So none at the London end unless the two that weren't out (125/131) are there.

Cheers, I'll be going fairly early so maybe I should keep more of an eye out for the way back.
 

GordonT

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Are Anglo-Scottish trains north of Preston virtually all crewed by staff based in Scotland with Preston being the natural point for Scottish-based staff to work to and return from? TPE are also deplorable for their level of Anglo-Scottish cancellations. Having separate franchise fiefdoms for Anglo-Scottish services probably compounds the current situation as at least under BR pre-sectorisation there was a larger pool of staff (and trains) from which to resource the timetable without the current fragmentation of resourcing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Are Anglo-Scottish trains north of Preston virtually all crewed by staff based in Scotland with Preston being the natural point for Scottish-based staff to work to and return from? TPE are also deplorable for their level of Anglo-Scottish cancellations. Having separate franchise fiefdoms for Anglo-Scottish services probably compounds the current situation as at least under BR pre-sectorisation there was a larger pool of Scottish-based staff (and trains) from which to resource the timetable without the constraints of the fragmentation of resourcing.
 

Bletchleyite

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Are Anglo-Scottish trains north of Preston virtually all crewed by staff based in Scotland with Preston being the natural point for Scottish-based staff to work to and return from?

I think there's a Preston crew depot as well, isn't there? But yes, all Avanti trains change crew at Preston if they go north* of it, I believe. That's one reason why everything stops there.

* I suspect London crews sign Blackpool as that's effectively just a long turnaround siding as far as Avanti goes. Though that's more west :)
 

dk1

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I think there's a Preston crew depot as well, isn't there? But yes, all Avanti trains change crew at Preston if they go north* of it, I believe. That's one reason why everything stops there.

* I suspect London crews sign Blackpool as that's effectively just a long turnaround siding as far as Avanti goes. Though that's more west :)
I thought Preston did Blackpool as well as North to Glasgow/Edinburgh. They also do London Euston via both routes & Manchester which makes it a very interesting depot indeed. At one time the S&C was also part of their remit. Upset Glasgow & them & you really are in trouble.
 

D6130

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Some of the management types do tend to be off sick more compared to the other staff who lose money if they have to take a day off (so they tend to dose themselves up on drugs)
Presumably that will be drugs of the 'Night Nurse' * variety, as opposed to those of the white marching powder variety!

(* other cold relief remedies are available). ;)
 

dk1

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Presumably that will be drugs of the 'Night Nurse' * variety, as opposed to those of the white marching powder variety!

(* other cold relief remedies are available). ;)

Oh I love Night Nurse. Have to be a little careful taking it too close to a shift but bought bottles of it each month when I did nights to help me to transition.
 

Huntergreed

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Only 6 cancellations (and 2 Glasgow’s that won’t see any further than the northern end of the roof at Preston station)

Today seems strangely okay
 

D1537

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Avanti have just tweeted

Due to unofficial strike action by train drivers, we are expecting multiple short-notice cancellations until further notice. Please check your journey on our website before coming to the station and be prepared for very busy services. Sorry for the inconvenience this will cause.

Have Avanti just called people refusing to work overtime "unofficial strike action", or is there something else going on here?

The former would appear to be a spectacularly bad thing to be doing.

Edit: the following has appeared on the front page of the Avanti website.

Due to unofficial strike action by train drivers we are facing multiple short-notice cancellations on our network. This is likely to continue until the current industrial dispute is settled. Customers are urged to check their journey on our website before coming to the station, and should be prepared for services to be disrupted at short notice and be very busy. We are sorry for the enormous frustration and inconvenience this will cause our customers and condemn the drivers' actions. We urge them to engage in meaningful talks around modernising working practices and developing a railway fit for the 21st century
 

Retorus

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Carlisle

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Blimey, that's a big statement to make.
Not really, whilst ASLEF is perfectly happy to routinely almost close the railway even during important events like the Commonwealth Games all those cosy agreements that result in drivers being treated with kid gloves should at the very least be suspended .
 

nedchester

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Not really, whilst ASLEF is perfectly happy to routinely almost close the railway even during important events like the Commonwealth Games all those cosy agreements that result in drivers being treated with kid gloves should at the very least be suspended .
Suspended for what?
 
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