Avanti West Coast cancellations

[karlbbb]

There is (apparently!) a 310 bus leaving Maghull at 0507, which would get you to Queen Square / Lime Street about 0540.

Whatever you decide to do, hope you have a stress free journey

Thanks for the heads up - better hope Arriva finish their strike by then

Got a front door to front door rail trip planned over 11 days, with various stops around Europe. It’d be typical for a British train to get in the way of that!

 

[ScottGallagher]

I do wonder if this level of staff animosity to the company would have been allowed to develop this far under Virgin. They werent perfect but generally staff relations were good with only the odd spat over the years.

 

[gazzaa2]

Detailed HR analysis at (another) major employer showed, unfortunately, it was very much the 'usual suspects' who were commonly reporting such. Not always, of course, but noticeable.

But there's always been an element (the usual suspects) who throw a sicky in any company. Not enough to bring the railways to a standstill before now though.

Obviously there's a lot more to it and Avanti can't just throw their staff under the bus. I don't know what the policy is there but usually in jobs you'll hit trigger warnings if you have so many sickness absences.

 

[AndrewE]

Detailed HR analysis at (another) major employer showed, unfortunately, it was very much the 'usual suspects' who were commonly reporting such. Not always, of course, but noticeable.

It's a difficult line to draw. We have a friend in her late 60s who was always awkward and a bit feeble, despite being a walker and mountaineer (just like us, apart from the fragility.) When she was due some kind of unrelated op about 10 years ago the pre-op showed up a congenital hole in the heart! When that was fixed she got a new lease of life.

Also another ISIHAC joke: "A postal worker has just got an OBE after retiring after 40 years' service without a single day off sick. The management said "We could always rely on her" while her colleagues remembered her as "That bloody woman who kept coming into work and making us all ill!"

 

[peter166]

Really hoping the super-express from Lime St - Euston (0700) runs on Tuesday 2nd as I have an onward connection to Amsterdam

You would have had real difficulty in getting to London this morning with enough time to get to St Pancras for your Eurostar departure. Both the 0605 and 0700 were cancelled. The 0747 ran and was a couple of minutes early at 1003 but that would have been cutting it fine to be able to check in by 1015.
If it was me I I'd be looking at a Travelodge for the night and a less stressful start to the day.
Good luck !
It just illustrates the enormous inconvenience & extra sress & cost that Avanti is causing to its customers.

 

[krus_aragon]

I have family who need to be in London on Tuesday morning for a flight, but thankfully they'd already decided to take a train down the day before. Even so, i'm half worrying if I'll end up needing to drive them down instead...

 

[gazzaa2]

It's a difficult line to draw. We have a friend in her late 60s who was always awkward and a bit feeble, despite being a walker and mountaineer (just like us, apart from the fragility.) When she was due some kind of unrelated op about 10 years ago the pre-op showed up a congenital hole in the heart! When that was fixed she got a new lease of life.

Also another ISIHAC joke: "A postal worker has just got an OBE after retiring after 40 years' service without a single day off sick. The management said "We could always rely on her" while her colleagues remembered her as "That bloody woman who kept coming into work and making us all ill!"

Ha ha. We've all worked with someone like that.

People often boast of never having a sick day in x number of years but that usually means at least one of three things: they've got a flawless immune system, they regularly go into work ill and spread their germs, or they book annual/flexi leave when they're unwell.

It's a bit different if you can work from home or don't get sick pay, and we've all gone into work with colds or whatever before, but sometimes you just have to take sick days. If it's a regular thing it's a problem but people who come in with all kinds of viruses are more part of the problem than model employees and end up causing more staff absences than they solve and expect a medal for it.

 

[Frankton Junct]

Really hoping the super-express from Lime St - Euston (0700) runs on Tuesday 2nd as I have an onward connection to Amsterdam

I suggest that you buy a London International ticket so that you have the international travel T&Cs.

 

[Kite159]

You would have had real difficulty in getting to London this morning with enough time to get to St Pancras for your Eurostar departure. Both the 0605 and 0700 were cancelled. The 0747 ran and was a couple of minutes early at 1003 but that would have been cutting it fine to be able to check in by 1015.
If it was me I I'd be looking at a Travelodge for the night and a less stressful start to the day.
Good luck !
It just illustrates the enormous inconvenience & extra sress & cost that Avanti is causing to its customers.

Agreed, or even a Premier Inn. Outside zone 1 they can be reasonably priced, however at short notice could be expensive, even somewhere like Croydon

 

[peter166]

16 cancellations listed on Avanti Journeycheck for Saturday plus many Glasgow or Edinburgh services terminating/starting short at Preston. Another poor weekend on the delivery of timetabled services made worse by the fact that it is already a reduced temporary timetable.
( Its almost like they might as well be on strike along with the rest of them. At least then the passenger would know for certain that there would be no services running rather the short notice lottery that exists )

 

[Brooklands]

16 cancellations listed on Avanti Journeycheck for Saturday plus many Glasgow or Edinburgh services terminating/starting short at Preston. Another poor weekend on the delivery of timetabled services made worse by the fact that it is already a reduced temporary timetable.
( Its almost like they might as well be on strike along with the rest of them. At least then the passenger would know for certain that there would be no services running rather the short notice lottery that exists )

I quite agree. It seems that the last two departures from GLC to EUS (16:40 & 17:40) are advertised as cancelled today (Sat 30th).
It’s obviously totally unacceptable that this farce is being allowed to continue seemingly without consequence to the operator.

 

[Furrball]

I quite agree. It seems that the last two departures from GLC to EUS (16:40 & 17:40) are advertised as cancelled today (Sat 30th).
It’s obviously totally unacceptable that this farce is being allowed to continue seemingly without consequence to the operator.

Plus 0930, 1230, 1240 GLC EUS starting/terminating at Preston

 

[jfollows]

Ha ha. We've all worked with someone like that.

People often boast of never having a sick day in x number of years but that usually means at least one of three things: they've got a flawless immune system, they regularly go into work ill and spread their germs, or they book annual/flexi leave when they're unwell.

It's a bit different if you can work from home or don't get sick pay, and we've all gone into work with colds or whatever before, but sometimes you just have to take sick days. If it's a regular thing it's a problem but people who come in with all kinds of viruses are more part of the problem than model employees and end up causing more staff absences than they solve and expect a medal for it.

In my second significant job I was a manager for the first time, and I remember one of the staff for whom I worked as a manager coming to work with a cold or something similar, I told him (nicely, I assure you!) to go home and not to come back to work until he was over it, if he wanted to do some work from home and it was appropriate then that'd be fine but otherwise work wasn't important enough that it couldn't wait.

I think I did this especially because I'd suffered 22 years in my first significant job with people coming to work ill and telling everyone what heroes they were at the same time as infecting everyone else, so in my second job I realised I could do something about it!

Sorry, this is getting off-topic now, I'll shut up about sneezing!

 

[Falcon1200]

In my second significant job I was a manager for the first time, and I remember one of the staff for whom I worked as a manager coming to work with a cold or something similar, I told him (nicely, I assure you!) to go home and not to come back to work until he was over it

I would have to ask, is having a cold really sufficient reason not to come into work, and would management (in any industry) be prepared to accept that and grant workers paid sick leave for every such occasion ? Not to mention employing enough staff to cover for those off 'sick'. Having a cold is not pleasant but it is part of the human condition.

 

[jfollows]

I would have to ask, is having a cold really sufficient reason not to come into work, and would management (in any industry) be prepared to accept that and grant workers paid sick leave for every such occasion ? Not to mention employing enough staff to cover for those off 'sick'. Having a cold is not pleasant but it is part of the human condition.

It depends on the job, and the individual circumstances, is all I think I need say - back on topic here it might be appropriate to drive a train with a bit of a cold whereas it might not be appropriate to sit at a desk in a shared office when sneezing a lot.
To me, the most important thing about management is to treat people as individuals and each circumstance as different, but I accept that this can be easier said than done, in the case of Avanti I really don't sense that its management is anywhere near good enough but they're never going to be able to manage people in the close way I was fortunate enough to be able to in my totally different job.

 

[gazzaa2]

I would have to ask, is having a cold really sufficient reason not to come into work, and would management (in any industry) be prepared to accept that and grant workers paid sick leave for every such occasion ? Not to mention employing enough staff to cover for those off 'sick'. Having a cold is not pleasant but it is part of the human condition.

Certainly a mild cold you'd be expected in but colds can be a spectrum. A few sniffles/scratchy throat/bit of a cough etc or a lot more acute. Heavy colds are nasty. Are they popping painkillers all day for example and feeling unwell?

 

[AndrewE]

It seems misleading and just wrong to me that the JourneyCheck webpage shows trains terminating or starting short only under the "Other train service updates" whereas they are effectively cancelled if you wanted to use that part of the route.

e.g. no class 9 Edinburgh (or Glasgow) trains are shown cancelled for today, although some of the direct Glasgows are, but under "Other updates" quite a few of the Glasgow trains only run S of Preston.

 

[D1537]

Certainly a mild cold you'd be expected in but colds can be a spectrum. A few sniffles/scratchy throat/bit of a cough etc or a lot more acute. Heavy colds are nasty. Are they popping painkillers all day for example and feeling unwell?

I don't have any problem with my staff coming in with a bit of a sniffle, but if they're sneezing and coughing everywhere (regardless of Covid, it was the same before that) then I'm going to send them home because I don't want the rest of the department unwell.

 

[Huntergreed]

Only 16 cancellations today - so not as bad as other days, and a sizeable number of the Anglo-Scots terminating at Preston.

Time perhaps to revert to the 4tph lockdown timetable? Better to operate that with no cancellations than this - it’s clear even this emergency timetable is too much for them.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Only 16 cancellations today - so not as bad as other days, and a sizeable number of the Anglo-Scots terminating at Preston.

Time perhaps to revert to the 4tph lockdown timetable? Better to operate that with no cancellations than this - it’s clear even this emergency timetable is too much for them.

I misread the 4tph and thought it was suggesting 4 trains per day for the Glasgow to Euston trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I misread the 4tph and thought it was suggesting 4 trains per day for the Glasgow to Euston trains.

If 4tpd is all they can reliably operate, then that. In essence they need to choose a service just below what they can realistically staff, so as to have a few spare staff in case of genuine additional sickness etc.

 

[Pinus contorta]

If 4tpd is all they can reliably operate, then that. In essence they need to choose a service just below what they can realistically staff, so as to have a few spare staff in case of genuine additional sickness etc.

I noticed after the heatwave disruptions, when I passed through Preston, there was space to stable TPE units but not much room for 9 or 11 car AWC units. So apart from the crewing issues , it is clearly unsustainable having to turn round and stable AWC trains at Preston when things go into a downward spiral .

 

[Huntergreed]

Are the staffing problems much worse north of Preston?

I notice the Anglo Scottish services are particularly bad, and more often than not their answer to this is to terminate and start/short at Preston.

 

[karlbbb]

You would have had real difficulty in getting to London this morning with enough time to get to St Pancras for your Eurostar departure. Both the 0605 and 0700 were cancelled. The 0747 ran and was a couple of minutes early at 1003 but that would have been cutting it fine to be able to check in by 1015.
If it was me I I'd be looking at a Travelodge for the night and a less stressful start to the day.
Good luck !
It just illustrates the enormous inconvenience & extra sress & cost that Avanti is causing to its customers.

Yea, we've now taken the advice given by many in this thread and we're booked on an early afternoon train on Monday now! Thanks all

 

[Failed Unit]

Are the staffing problems much worse north of Preston?

I notice the Anglo Scottish services are particularly bad, and more often than not their answer to this is to terminate and start/short at Preston.

I would guess that is is harder to move staff around. If all depots have say 10% off it is more noticeable north of Preston where the service isn’t as reduced then on the other lines which have had the service levels cut by around 1/3

 

[Watershed]

Only 16 cancellations today - so not as bad as other days, and a sizeable number of the Anglo-Scots terminating at Preston.

Time perhaps to revert to the 4tph lockdown timetable? Better to operate that with no cancellations than this - it’s clear even this emergency timetable is too much for them.

The 4tph lockdown timetable left the Glasgow services essentially unchanged (just that they left Euston earlier, in the Chester path, to allow a call at Crewe). I think there would have to be a more significant cutback in Glasgow services, however unpalatable.

 

[Skiddaw]

Yea, we've now taken the advice given by many in this thread and we're booked on an early afternoon train on Monday now! Thanks all

Good call!

We're visiting friends in Edinburgh for a few days during the festival and are currently debating whether there's any point in even considering whether to take the train (from Penrith) or just brave the festival traffic and drive, especially as the outward journey is a Saturday (though admittedly the direct service is TPE. Who aren't much more reliable it has to be said). It's really becoming desperate isn't it? I shall be interested to see what the reply from Avanti to our MP is like.

 

[D1537]

I quite agree. It seems that the last two departures from GLC to EUS (16:40 & 17:40) are advertised as cancelled today (Sat 30th).
It’s obviously totally unacceptable that this farce is being allowed to continue seemingly without consequence to the operator.

It's not quite that bad - the 1640 is running GLC-PRE and the 1740 is running PRE-EUS.

There's also the option of getting the 9M19 1840 GLC-COV throughout and then 1B50 2315 BHM-EUS Commonwealth Games additional.

Still not brilliant, of course.

 

[M&NEJ]

If 4tpd is all they can reliably operate, then that. In essence they need to choose a service just below what they can realistically staff, so as to have a few spare staff in case of genuine additional sickness etc.

From an operational point of view you are right; but from the passenger's point of view this seems utterly unacceptable. I think the media are saturated with plenty of other, high-profile news at the moment; but I do believe the WCML (north of Preston) deserves far more attention, to put the spotlight on Avanti and government.

 

[Pinus contorta]

From an operational point of view you are right; but from the passenger's point of view this seems utterly unacceptable. I think the media are saturated with plenty of other, high-profile news at the moment; but I do believe the WCML (north of Preston) deserves far more attention, to put the spotlight on Avanti and government.

Does it get much attention in the Scottish press, that the service to Glasgow is sub- standard? Are the Scottish Politicians paying much attention?