Avanti West Coast cancellations

[gazzaa2]

If imposed rostering is already the issue, just impose another one. It can't be any worse.

I don't entirely get why actual rosters have to be agreed, and don't see why that sort of micromanagement by Unions is tolerated. I do get that it isn't acceptable just to change peoples' shift times, but if you're on shift you do what your employer wants between those times. For instance today I've been asked to do some data checking instead of my normal work, and I'm doing it, because I'm being paid to do it so I do what I'm told.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2022 ==



That seems to imply that they think people are "pulling sickies".

If it is predominantly caused by staff sickness, why is it always Fridays and Saturdays worse hit than Monday to Thursday?

 

[Jimini]

Avanti staff have been sent the attached

More importantly, how was your McDonald's?

 

[gazzaa2]

I would suggest that it's very poor form - not to mention inflammatory - to send an email to the whole workforce that effectively accuses them of all being dishonest. It's certainly not one I'd like to receive.

With Covid always spreading like wildfire for a couple of years now, if staff test positive then they've been obliged to take a week off or whatever it is, so they can't blame staff for that.

 

[800001]

More importantly, how was your McDonald's?

Explain?

 

[175001]

Explain?

The notifications on the top of the screen...

 

[800001]

The notifications on the top of the screen...

Not my screen

 

[Taunton]

With Covid always spreading like wildfire for a couple of years now, if staff test positive then they've been obliged to take a week off or whatever it is, so they can't blame staff for that.

Detailed HR analysis at (another) major employer showed, unfortunately, it was very much the 'usual suspects' who were commonly reporting such. Not always, of course, but noticeable.

 

[Efini92]

I don't entirely get why actual rosters have to be agreed, and don't see why that sort of micromanagement by Unions is tolerated. I do get that it isn't acceptable just to change peoples' shift times, but if you're on shift you do what your employer wants between those times. For instance today I've been asked to do some data checking instead of my normal work, and I'm doing it, because I'm being paid to do it so I do what I'm told.

T&C’s requirements, route retention etc. it’s a massive minefield.

I’m guessing your work is Monday-Friday? How would you feel if they suddenly started making you work Monday- Saturday instead. Or you’d planned your holidays around a long weekend that’s been taken off you.

 

[Dryce]

It is aimed at me, because it suggests that any legitimate sick leave that I may need to take will be presumed by the company to be deceitful. Thus it indicates that there is reduction in the extent to which I'm trusted to act professionally.

It's aimed at everybody.

I don't think Virgin were perfect. And if looking for a tangible measure of problems it's not as if Avanti invented the concept of doling out large amounts of regular delay repay on the WCML.

But I do think Avanti feels like a step back and that the body language of it as an organisation and some of the staff gives the impression that it needs a bit of a shake up. Seeing the inconsistency of the way the visible staff come across and the reality of the on-board product then if I was a senior management in Avanti I should be concerned.

One simple measure of consistency would be for the management to find out how often customers actually experience ticket checks on a 4 or 5 hour journey - which may involve two separate crews.

 

[D1537]

Detailed HR analysis at (another) major employer showed, unfortunately, it was very much the 'usual suspects' who were commonly reporting such. Not always, of course, but noticeable.

And, of course, having Covid is quite easy to fake. Having said that, someone at my sister's work was quite ill with it, and was told she still needed a doctor's note because it was the second time she'd had it (not at all unusual now).

The conversation went something like
Her: "So you want me to go to a doctor's surgery while I've got Covid? I'm pretty sure they'd tell me to go away"
Work: "OK no, but you'll need to get one when you're not infectious"
Her: "Right - so when I test negative I'll be coming back to work, but you want me to miss more work time to visit a doctor who can't give me a note anyway for something I haven't got any more?"
Work: "Er...."

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m guessing your work is Monday-Friday? How would you feel if they suddenly started making you work Monday- Saturday instead. Or you’d planned your holidays around a long weekend that’s been taken off you.

That's the equivalent of changing the shift times, which isn't what I'm suggesting doing. Though a bit of variation wouldn't be unreasonable - if for instance I was asked to attend an 0800 meeting tomorrow despite my normal start time being 0900 this wouldn't be unreasonable.

What I'm saying is that within the times which have already been agreed the employer should be able to ask the employee to drive/guard/whatever-their-job-is any train(s) they like, or none if spare.

 

[Skiddaw]

Going back to Avanti delays/cancellations, I've had a response from our MP:

Thank you for writing to me with your concerns about the services Avanti provide. I know that there have been issues with train delays and cancellations for a variety of reasons and I appreciate that this is frustrating for passengers. I have to say I know exactly what you mean as I am regularly caught up with these issues in my weekly commute to and from Westminster from the constituency using Avanti services. I am sorry to hear you have had several unpleasant experiences with this service.

I write to inform you that I have now written to Avanti on your behalf to ask them to consider and respond to the points you have raised.

I will write again once I have received a response, but please do not hesitate to contact me in the meantime if you require further assistance.

Yours sincerely,
Neil

Dr Neil Hudson MP
MP for Penrith and The Border

I'll keep you posted....

 

[Bletchleyite]

But I do think Avanti feels like a step back and that the body language of it as an organisation and some of the staff gives the impression that it needs a bit of a shake up. Seeing the inconsistency of the way the visible staff come across and the reality of the on-board product then if I was a senior management in Avanti I should be concerned.

I certainly agree it's a dire TOC, which clearly has a high degree of bad management. TPE is the same.

It does seem to be that unless you have a particularly good person at the helm (e.g. Mark Hopwood - not that GWR is without its faults, far from it) FirstGroup TOCs (and for that matter bus operations) do seem to descend quickly into utter mediocrity.

 

[express93]

deleted

 

[E16 Cyclist]

I certainly agree it's a dire TOC, which clearly has a high degree of bad management. TPE is the same.

It does seem to be that unless you have a particularly good person at the helm (e.g. Mark Hopwood - not that GWR is without its faults, far from it) FirstGroup TOCs (and for that matter bus operations) do seem to descend quickly into utter mediocrity.

In a sense reading this thread is reminding me of a similar thread when GWR were having issues at weekends which had been caused by the delayed electrification and resultant delayed driver training which meant travelling with GWR at the weekend became a lottery

And there was lots of criticism on here on Mark Hopwood then along with many of the same comments I’m reading here about how they’re one of the worst toc’s etc etc. Now on the intercity side at least they appear perfectly competent

Aside from first group there is the other common denominator which consistently appears to escape any criticism or scrutiny namely the dft who cause a lot of the problems but then hide behind the toc

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a sense reading this thread is reminding me of a similar thread when GWR were having issues at weekends which had been caused by the delayed electrification and resultant delayed driver training which meant travelling with GWR at the weekend became a lottery

And there was lots of criticism on here on Mark Hopwood then along with many of the same comments I’m reading here about how they’re one of the worst toc’s etc etc. Now on the intercity side at least they appear perfectly competent

Aside from first group there is the other common denominator which consistently appears to escape any criticism or scrutiny namely the dft who cause a lot of the problems but then hide behind the toc

At the time they were fully deserving of criticism. It is not difficult to publish a timetable that you are likely to be able to operate. It might be a very sparse one indeed, but better that than random chance.

DaFT aren't helping, of course, but I'm not aware that DaFT are preventing Avanti from publishing a workable emergency timetable.

Indeed, because of the new Delay Repay rules, doing so will save them a fortune in payouts, as a bonus to them.

 

[Efini92]

That's the equivalent of changing the shift times, which isn't what I'm suggesting doing. Though a bit of variation wouldn't be unreasonable - if for instance I was asked to attend an 0800 meeting tomorrow despite my normal start time being 0900 this wouldn't be unreasonable.

What I'm saying is that within the times which have already been agreed the employer should be able to ask the employee to drive/guard/whatever-their-job-is any train(s) they like, or none if spare.

It’s not just changing the times it’s adding shifts. From what I hear the guards have lost 17 rest days under the imposed roster.

The second part does happen, certainly on the driving side.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not just changing the times it’s adding shifts. From what I hear the guards have lost 17 rest days under the imposed roster.

For clarity, I'm not talking about the matter under dispute, I'm talking about what they can do in terms of switching to an emergency timetable.

If rest days have been lost then there is clearly an issue.

 

[Efini92]

For clarity, I'm not talking about the matter under dispute, I'm talking about what they can do in terms of switching to an emergency timetable.

If rest days have been lost then there is clearly an issue.

Apologies I may have misunderstood your original post. I thought you were referencing the already imposed roster for the TM’s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apologies I may have misunderstood your original post. I thought you were referencing the already imposed roster for the TM’s.

Fair enough. No, I was countering those who said they couldn't change duties around for an emergency timetable, and I was saying yes, they can, provided they keep people within the same shift times as they already had allocated.

 

[Bertie the bus]

In a sense reading this thread is reminding me of a similar thread when GWR were having issues at weekends which had been caused by the delayed electrification and resultant delayed driver training which meant travelling with GWR at the weekend became a lottery

And there was lots of criticism on here on Mark Hopwood then along with many of the same comments I’m reading here about how they’re one of the worst toc’s etc etc. Now on the intercity side at least they appear perfectly competent

Aside from first group there is the other common denominator which consistently appears to escape any criticism or scrutiny namely the dft who cause a lot of the problems but then hide behind the toc

It isn’t really comparable is it? There haven’t been any large scale upgrades on the WCML for over a decade, no new stock for nearly two decades and no new routes drivers require training on.

 

[karlbbb]

Really hoping the super-express from Lime St - Euston (0700) runs on Tuesday 2nd as I have an onward connection to Amsterdam

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really hoping the super-express from Lime St - Euston (0700) runs on Tuesday 2nd as I have an onward connection to Amsterdam

The way things are at the moment I'd book a hotel and go down the night before...

 

[td97]

Sensible way from Euston to Manchester is probably LNR to Crewe and then Northern, avoids both. Not an option tomorrow though!

Yes but unfortunately there's not capacity for 20 carriages worth of passengers from cancelled Avanti + XC services to fit on a Northern 323 stopper to Crewe, or worse the 2 carriage 150 TfW are offering at 1731.

Consolation can be sought by looking at a current traffic map of the UK motorways

 

[Merseysider]

Really hoping the super-express from Lime St - Euston (0700) runs on Tuesday 2nd as I have an onward connection to Amsterdam

Make sure you have a Plan B, and a Plan C. It was cancelled today, and there’s every chance it’ll be cancelled on Tuesday.

 

[karlbbb]

Yep starting to get a bit nervous. There’s always the 0747 but we need to be at St Pancras by probably 1015 to get through passport control on the Eurostar (dep 1104) which is cutting it a bit too fine if we’re even a few minutes late into Euston.

 

[Merseysider]

Yep starting to get a bit nervous. There’s always the 0747 but we need to be at St Pancras by probably 1015 to get through passport control on the Eurostar (dep 1104) which is cutting it a bit too fine if we’re even a few minutes late into Euston.

If you can get to Liverpool in time for the 0605, I would do so, as if the 0700 is shown as cancelled you’ll at least be early, rather than late.

 

[karlbbb]

If you can get to Liverpool in time for the 0605, I would do so, as if the 0700 is shown as cancelled you’ll at least be early, rather than late.

As we’re relying on Merseyrail to get us from Maghull to Central in the first place, the earliest we can get in seems to be 0630-ish, outside of getting a taxi, of course.

 

[Grumpy Git]

My daughter flew short-haul to Europe a couple of months ago from Heathrow as it was miles cheaper than from Manchester, even with the (Avanti) train fare (and more direct flights that day if there were problems). She has to make the same trip again next month and we have booked it from Manchester!

 

[Merseysider]

As we’re relying on Merseyrail to get us from Maghull to Central in the first place, the earliest we can get in seems to be 0630-ish, outside of getting a taxi, of course.

There is (apparently!) a 310 bus leaving Maghull at 0507, which would get you to Queen Square / Lime Street about 0540.

Whatever you decide to do, hope you have a stress free journey