Avanti West Coast cancellations

[317 forever]

Further cancellations for tomorrow. Not sure if it’s been announced publicly yet but I expect it to do shortly, if not done already.

A quick glance sees quite a few services to/from Wolverhampton and Manchester cancelled, as well as the all too familiar theme of trains starting/terminating at Preston.

Avanti came to my rescue last night when a Cross Country train was cancelled.

Admittedly bus cancellations and a breakdown meant I missed the 18.57 from Birmingham New Street to Stockport (assuming it did run).

Anyway, while the 19.57 was cancelled, there was a 20.15 Avanti train I was able to catch instead. Maybe it was diverted via Birmingham especially for the Commonwealth Games.

As a sort-of aside, it thankfully stopped at Stockport, where I had split my ticket to save around £8.

 

[STINT47]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

 

[TheEdge]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

And that's wrong.

You sign an employment contract with a set number of hours/shifts/days whatever. If a company wants its staff in above and beyond that it should be at the discretion of the staff and not expected.

This sort of attitude (of staff and employers) is what leads us down the slippery slope to the US style employment world.

 

[SJN]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

How can HR have a discussion about someone choosing not to work their rest days. They might do a month of them as saving for something then stop once they’ve got what they need. You can’t discipline someone for choosing when they work rest days or not.

 

[Dunnideer]

At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

Q: ‘Why didn’t you agree to work last Sunday when you were offered an overtime shift?’
A: ‘I had something to do’
Q: ‘Ok and why didn’t you work your rest day on Wednesday this week either?’
A: ‘I told the kids I’d take them swimming’

End of discussion.

 

[Agent_Squash]

The dead hand of Worst Group's piss-poor senior management?

I know FG bashing is a good sport in this forum, but Avanti’s management team is largely the same (previously well regarded) team that managed Virgin Trains!

 

[357]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

This post is simply ridiculous

Nothing against you personally, but it shows the bad situation at many jobs in the UK now.

 

[WelshBluebird]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

I've literally never seen this in any job.
I have seen it where you can be expected to work longer hours on your working days, but never have I seen anything about being expected to come in on your days off.
If nothing else it would be impractical because people are often busy doing non work things on their days off!!

 

[Teddyward]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with

Q: ‘Why didn’t you agree to work last Sunday when you were offered an overtime shift?’
A: ‘I had something to do’
Q: ‘Ok and why didn’t you work your rest day on Wednesday this week either?’
A: ‘I told the kids I’d take them swimming’

End of discussion.

Wouldn’t even go that far.
“None of your business “ would suffice for both. Or perhaps just a blank stare.

 

[43066]

This post is simply ridiculous

Nothing against you personally, but it shows the bad situation at many jobs in the UK now.

Absolutely. The sad thing is many people want to see the same imposed on others, rather than trying to improve things for themselves.

 

[gazzaa2]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

Every job i've had and company i've worked for i've only ever worked my contracted hours (be it flexi or shifts) and i've only done overtime when i've really needed the money, i'd prefer work/life balance and I think the pandemic has had the effect for a lot of people.

In my experience there will always be staff who will come in to do overtime and if they stop it's due to being unhappy with the way they're treated or the job itself, or they're no longer saving for a holiday or deposit for something. Companies cannot expect staff to work beyond their contracted hours.

 

[175001]

If drivers are not working as part of a sympathy strike surley this is illegal? Why aren't Avanti or the government taking action against the employees andunion.

It's called a rest day.....

 

[gazzaa2]

If they decided to open parliament on Sundays, how many MP's would turn up?

 

[Starmill]

I struggle to see how it could be defamatory, given that it doesn't relate to any particular person, and doesn't cause "serious harm" to anyone's reputation. Avanti also aren't suggesting that ASLEF are behind this.

It's certainly a rather 'strong' message - but hardly out of keeping with the barbs the unions have been trading over recent months! Funny how when the boot is on the other foot...

To use the term "condemn" to describe your own employees strongly suggests to me that the relationship between management and most workers has permanently broken down. If my employer put a statement to the press saying they "condemned" my actions I don't think I could possibly stay.

 

[CAF397]

I know FG bashing is a good sport in this forum, but Avanti’s management team is largely the same (previously well regarded) team that managed Virgin Trains!

But the paymasters have changed. The DfT call the shots. I'm sure the MD and directors would love to be in control of their own ship, but they're not.

 

[dk1]

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

Sounds like you’ve made some awful career choices so far.

 

[jfollows]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

Whilst I spent most of my working career in jobs which didn't pay overtime, and there was an understanding that working over weekends (for example) would occasionally be required, as long as it was done in the context of "give and take", was the exception rather than the rule, and would generally be planned in advance I didn't have a problem with this.
When I was asked to travel to the USA on a Saturday and attend meetings on the Sunday I drew the line and refused to do so, I was OK with travelling on a Saturday and going to meetings on the Monday.
As long as we were all focussed on a common goal, and that we were all motivated to work towards that goal, that wasn't unacceptable. I can't imagine I'd have coped well with being "ordered" to work on my day off but I ensured that it never came to that. I felt it was important to push back against silly people who tried to push too far, and found that in general they didn't resent my doing so, and some of my colleagues were grateful to me for doing so.

EDIT I should add that, by the time these Sunday requests came in, my employer had changed from paying for Business Class travel for many years. Travel as cheaply as possible and be prepared to work the following day. I don't think so!

 

[Starmill]

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

They can choose to classify it however they like. They cannot do anything about it without convincing evidence that staff are in breach of their contract.

 

[357]

West Midlands Police have shared their tweet on their own profile too...

 

[Sputnik89]

West Midlands Police have shared their tweet on their own profile too...

Saw that.

Police officer, incidentally, one of the very few jobs where a worker can be compelled to work a rostered day off. Something Shapps wants for the rest of us, apparently.

 

[D1537]

Police officer, incidentally, one of the very few jobs where a worker can be compelled to work a rostered day off. Something Shapps wants for the rest of us, apparently.

Oh aye - there's reason the Tories want rid of EU laws, and it's nowt to do with Brexit.

I would not be in the slightest surprised if the DfT had ordered Avanti to stick that statement out.

 

[Bungle73]

I'm supposed to be going to Chester in September, but this thing and the national strikes are putting me off. What do you think?

 

[Failed Unit]

One thing that it would be great if you could clarify for me.

You have 6 shifts up for overtime, people volunteer. You may now have 2 shifts missing. Why don’t Avanti know that not all shifts are covered in advance? whenever I do overtime it is arranged well in advance. It doesn’t mean to say I won’t get a call the day before when all the duties are not covered, but by then the are thinking about what work doesn’t get done.

is it more an issue that the “spares” are not covered so anything going wrong on the day results in a cancellation. I assume if they know they are 2 shifts short right now they will be doing the cancellations for those now as well.

 

[Some guy]

From an operational point of view you are right; but from the passenger's point of view this seems utterly unacceptable. I think the media are saturated with plenty of other, high-profile news at the moment; but I do believe the WCML (north of Preston) deserves far more attention, to put the spotlight on Avanti and government.

The Birmingham Glasgow have still not returned after 2 years meaning the 1tph service is really struggling and has been for a long time

 

[SCDR_WMR]

At most of the places I've worked having to come in on your day off if the needs of the business requires it was expected and a normal part of the job.

If one week we all refused and this happened to coincide with industrial action in another part of the business it might well have been classed as an illegal sympathy strike. At the very least I would look at who frequently does overtime and if they've suddenly stopped it might be time for a documented discussion with HR...

Not come in on days off, I'd happily ask staff whether they'd work OT, or swap days but that's in industries that don't have diagrammed work so it's purely a numbers game.

Nobody can/should feel like they are forced to work hours over their contracted amount. And any OT worked can have no impact on future OT offering

 

[Falcon1200]

“Archaic rules from 1919 means working on rest days is voluntary.”

Seems pretty clear to me!

Yes it is, and Shapps is making himself look (even more of) a prat. But is it possible that what he is referring to, extremely unclearly, is Unions withdrawing from overtime agreements (regardless of whether staff actually want to work overtime or not), such as the RMT dispute with Scotrail which eradicated Sunday trains for months ?

I think all rail workers should be Sundays inside and this is something that should have been sorted years ago but the privatised companies didn’t want to do so.

Neither of course did BR, Sundays were outside the working week for my entire career, 1978 to 2016.

Unions have been asking for Sundays inside for years, we know the TOC's and DfT won't fund it

As always, the question has to be where the necessary additional money to run the railway would come from, because it would not in itself increase revenue ?

This sort of attitude (of staff and employers) is what leads us down the slippery slope to the US style employment world.

As above, overtime working, both rostered (eg Sundays) and non-rostered (eg Rest Days) has long been a feature of the railway - It's nothing new !

 

[SCDR_WMR]

One thing that it would be great if you could clarify for me.

You have 6 shifts up for overtime, people volunteer. You may now have 2 shifts missing. Why don’t Avanti know that not all shifts are covered in advance? whenever I do overtime it is arranged well in advance. It doesn’t mean to say I won’t get a call the day before when all the duties are not covered, but by then the are thinking about what work doesn’t get done.

is it more an issue that the “spares” are not covered so anything going wrong on the day results in a cancellation. I assume if they know they are 2 shifts short right now they will be doing the cancellations for those now as well.

All TOCs know what shifts are vacant on the 48hr markup. If nobody is available on rest day then work will be allocated to spare turns the job fits to their day (or within agreed timescales).

If it's still uncovered, spares on the day will pick up whatever fits within their days.
If all spares have been utilised on the 48hr sheet, there may be a cross-cover agreement in place where another depot can release train crew to cover.

There are plenty of avenues, but if the figures I've seen tonight are correct (usually around 250 trains per week covered by RDW), and train crew have decided they want to have their day's off off to help with say childcare over summer holidays, there is just no chance of covering it all. Recruit more staff is the only answer

 

[Some guy]

I think there's a Preston crew depot as well, isn't there? But yes, all Avanti trains change crew at Preston if they go north* of it, I believe. That's one reason why everything stops there.

* I suspect London crews sign Blackpool as that's effectively just a long turnaround siding as far as Avanti goes. Though that's more west

Only Preston and then eventually Crewe depot will also sign the Blackpool north line. Wolverhampton, Euston, Manchester aren’t allowed past Preston due to being untrained on it

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I thought Preston did Blackpool as well as North to Glasgow/Edinburgh. They also do London Euston via both routes & Manchester which makes it a very interesting depot indeed. At one time the S&C was also part of their remit. Upset Glasgow & them & you really are in trouble.

Preston signs everything except Shrewsbury, Chester to Holyhead and Liverpool. It’s a very unique depot

 

[dk1]

Preston signs everything except Shrewsbury, Chester to Holyhead and Liverpool. It’s a very unique depot

Best on the west I think.

 

[Efini92]

Only Preston and then eventually Crewe depot will also sign the Blackpool north line. Wolverhampton, Euston, Manchester aren’t allowed past Preston due to being untrained on it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2022 ==


Preston signs everything except Shrewsbury, Chester to Holyhead and Liverpool. It’s a very unique depot

And cheadle hulme - kidsgrove for political reasons