Transpennine woes and a moan...

[Fokx]

What's stopping drivers applying is the p*ss poor route cards their traincrew get. If I lived around Liverpool would I really want to move over to TPE to do 2 trips to Leeds every day. No thanks. And its a shame because they could give their drivers decent route cards and folk would be queuing up. It would also help to run the service if more drivers signed more routes. Eg let Liverpool sign upto say Carlisle, and Newcastle .

There’s not a shortage of driver applicants, but there is a significant shortage of competence and a shortage of overtime and rest day payments

 

[yorkie]

Surely people can’t travel and refund the ticket?

Agreed, they are not allowed to obtain a refund.

However if the next available train results in a delay of qualifying length, they can claim delay compensation.

It's possible the previous poster got the concepts of refunds and compensation mixed up.

 

[Spartacus]

TPE this morning have totally outdone themselves, if you don't count the last overnight the first Huddersfield - Leeds train is meant to be at 03:49, then at 05:54. The first today was 07:17! Shocking 'service', if you can even call it that!

Realtime Trains | Departures from Huddersfield between 0000 and 0800 on 04/07/2022

Train information at Huddersfield between 0000 and 0800 on 04/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mike57]

TPE this morning have totally outdone themselves, if you don't count the last overnight the first Huddersfield - Leeds train is meant to be at 03:49, then at 05:54. The first today was 07:17! Shocking 'service', if you can even call it that!

I have another trip to the North West tomorrow, just glad I am 'on the clock' and get paid for travel time. Not expecting it to be pleasant. There seems to be no penalty on TPE for failing to run timetabled service. Couple that with an inability to provide 6 car 185's in spite of not running a full timetable and it seems to me things are as bad as they were post May 2018. All we seem to get as passengers are excuses. I know the York Manchester route has limitations as its only a two track railway most of the way, but currently there is only maybe a 75% service timetabled, and even that seems to challenge TPE.

 

[benbristow]

TPE are a total lottery at the minute. Went to Manchester with my family last weekend. I live in Scotland (Glasgow Central my main national station) and my parents live in Grimsby. Both me and my parents suffered cancellations - them on the way there (service cancelled at Sheffield) and myself on the way back (train was instead started from Preston, but then when I got to Preston as advised it was instead started at Lancaster - ended up getting an Avanti service from Preston which was an 'upgrade' really with a nice hot toastie and beer & pretzels in first class - I had a first class ticket but it was never checked too ).

Something really needs to be done about them, it's ridiculous. I've tried to get to Grimsby before and at least 3/4 hours worth of trains have been cancelled in a row due to 'staff shortages'.

At least their delay repay is usually pretty reliable. Had a ton of free journeys with an included lunch break at Manchester's finest Wetherspoons

 

[CAF397]

TPE, fully resourced (an engaged workforce working rest days) would be running as near to a full timetable at the moment (the post-covid reduced timetable).

Their issues are the same as is replicated around the industry now.

 

[sjm77]

PE are a total lottery at the minute. Went to Manchester with my family last weekend. I live in Scotland (Glasgow Central my main national station) and my parents live in Grimsby. Both me and my parents suffered cancellations - them on the way there (service cancelled at Sheffield) and myself on the way back (train was instead started from Preston, but then when I got to Preston as advised it was instead started at Lancaster - ended up getting an Avanti service from Preston which was an 'upgrade' really with a nice hot toastie and beer & pretzels in first class - I had a first class ticket but it was never checked too ).

Totally agree!
On the positive side my last 2 delay repay claims were settled in record time (3 working days). I expected a longer wait given that a significant proportion of their customers are entitled to claim!

 

[benbristow]

I forgot to mention, my Nana visited me up here the weekend before and she suffered about 3 cancellations in a row with delayed trains when she got to Doncaster going back to Grimsby with TPE.

I know British trains get a bit of a name for being unreliable but it's totally taking the rich tea biscuit at this point.

A shame as TPE trains are generally quite nice compared to some other operators (The 185s are quite decent IMO) and their staff are usually spot on too. All they really need to work onboard is their first class catering, just free tea/filter-coffee/water & crisps/biscuits is disappointing compared to the likes of Avanti/LNER which give free soft/alcoholic drinks and substantial food offerings - even when limited you at least get a sandwich or something.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Totally agree!
On the positive side my last 2 delay repay claims were settled in record time (3 working days). I expected a longer wait given that a significant proportion of their customers are entitled to claim!

Its not their money anymore so they have no reason to delay or find an excuse not to pay it. Hopefully, although i doubt it, DfT have worked out they are losing sheds loads of money through delay repay and perhaps need to push TPE to come to an accommodation with staff over RDW.

 

[Starmill]

Its not their money anymore so they have no reason to delay or find an excuse not to pay it. Hopefully, although i doubt it, DfT have worked out they are losing sheds loads of money through delay repay and perhaps need to push TPE to come to an accommodation with staff over RDW.

The values claimable via compensation schemes do not come close to the sums needed to get a new rest day working agreement negotiated I'm afraid. It will have no effect.

 

[northernchris]

TPE have been really poor of late, even by their usual standards. Saturday was abysmal given they were down to 2 trains per hour York - Manchester due to the engineering work at Huddersfield, and they still couldn't manage that without lots of cancellations. Today the Leeds - Huddersfield stoppers have suffered from plenty of cancellations, at one point both diagrams weren't running meaning Deighton and Ravensthorpe weren't served at all. Some of the Redcar - Airport services were single 185s too, and it really doesn't help when almost every seat is reserved. Travelling with them is such an unpleasant experience now, it's just about guaranteed the train will either be late/cancelled, or overcrowded.

 

[wellhouse]

At least their delay repay is usually pretty reliable. Had a ton of free journeys with an included lunch break at Manchester's finest Wetherspoons

Usually perhaps, but my wife recently had two delay repay claims accepted, only to receive an email a couple of days later rejecting one of them because the image of the ticket was insufficiently clear.

Being less sceptical than those who have had more experience, she had, of course, discarded the tickets once the claims had been accepted. Watch this space...

(and I had the joy of two short-formed peak services today)

(and no advance fares are being offered on Sundays in the near future)

(and both Huddersfield-Manchester and Huddersfield-Leeds stopping services are being folded into longer distance Sunday services)

 

[Killingworth]

TPE have been really poor of late, even by their usual standards. Saturday was abysmal given they were down to 2 trains per hour York - Manchester due to the engineering work at Huddersfield, and they still couldn't manage that without lots of cancellations. Today the Leeds - Huddersfield stoppers have suffered from plenty of cancellations, at one point both diagrams weren't running meaning Deighton and Ravensthorpe weren't served at all. Some of the Redcar - Airport services were single 185s too, and it really doesn't help when almost every seat is reserved. Travelling with them is such an unpleasant experience now, it's just about guaranteed the train will either be late/cancelled, or overcrowded.

It's little better on the South Pennine route today. 7 cancellations over the Sheffield-Manchester core.

 

[Starmill]

and no advance fares are being offered on Sundays in the near future

Have there been any since the start of the Conductor strikes? That was many months ago now.

Given next to no trains have actually been running on Sundays it's probably not an enormous surprise there aren't any Advance tickets available.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE, fully resourced (an engaged workforce working rest days) would be running as near to a full timetable at the moment (the post-covid reduced timetable).

Their issues are the same as is replicated around the industry now.

That was all the staff and their union representatives have asked for. To be paid reasonably for working their rest day, or their day off! That day that Grant Shapps think is an antiquainted rule from 1919....

 

[James90012]

Terrible state of cancellations this morning:

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

 

[Fokx]

Terrible state of cancellations this morning:

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

TransPennine Express JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

That’s actually MUCH less than usual

 

[sjpowermac]

That’s actually MUCH less than usual

Indeed.

Add to which two trains were reinstated at short notice:

1F48 0554 Manchester Vic-Liverpool Lime Street

1T25 0654 Liverpool Lime Street-Manchester Victoria (to then form 1E25 0730 Manchester Victoria-Scarborough).

 

[Jamesrob637]

They can't even form all Cleethorpes services of 6 cars either. Some are still missing: hopefully these will return in December.

 

[Fokx]

They can't even form all Cleethorpes services of 6 cars either. Some are still missing: hopefully these will return in December.

They’re not all booked 6 cars

 

[mike57]

Really the state of services between our 3rd and 4th largest conurbations (Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire) are a national disgrace, as a passenger there seem to be plenty of excuses and blame from all the participants, but no plans to improve the service.

Its been going on for over 4 years on and off. Jam tomorrow isnt what we need to hear (Dewsbury - Huddersfield upgrade, electrification etc etc.) What is needed is a plan which delivers a reliable service using the current infrastructure and rolling stock. I have bolded that as most of these improvements promised are realistically 8 - 10 years off. There will have to be compromises, not everyone is going to get what they want or even need. As a start all the available stock should be in use running 5/6 car services, even if frequency is reduced from 2018 plans. Running 3 car services on these routes is a complete waste of the paths.

Same comments apply to the TPE south routes, and the TPE North connecting services.

In my case if this means I have to change trains in York for my journeys to the NW I can accept that as long as the underlying service is reliable and robust, and I assume others will feel the same, I would rather have a reliable service that I can use to plan a journey with a reasonable certainty that barring external issues such as extreme weather I will arrive around the timetabled time rather than having everywhere to everywhere journeys which then suffer cancellation and delay.

The problem is no one seems to be responsible, and worse still the politicians seem disinterested (or regard it as a poisoned chalice maybe)

 

[SuperNova]

Really the state of services between our 3rd and 4th largest conurbations (Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire) are a national disgrace, as a passenger there seem to be plenty of excuses and blame from all the participants, but no plans to improve the service.

Its been going on for over 4 years on and off. Jam tomorrow isnt what we need to hear (Dewsbury - Huddersfield upgrade, electrification etc etc.) What is needed is a plan which delivers a reliable service using the current infrastructure and rolling stock. I have bolded that as most of these improvements promised are realistically 8 - 10 years off. There will have to be compromises, not everyone is going to get what they want or even need. As a start all the available stock should be in use running 5/6 car services, even if frequency is reduced from 2018 plans. Running 3 car services on these routes is a complete waste of the paths.

Same comments apply to the TPE south routes, and the TPE North connecting services.

In my case if this means I have to change trains in York for my journeys to the NW I can accept that as long as the underlying service is reliable and robust, and I assume others will feel the same, I would rather have a reliable service that I can use to plan a journey with a reasonable certainty that barring external issues such as extreme weather I will arrive around the timetabled time rather than having everywhere to everywhere journeys which then suffer cancellation and delay.

The problem is no one seems to be responsible, and worse still the politicians seem disinterested (or regard it as a poisoned chalice maybe)

Again, this isn't an issue inherent to TPE. It's all TOC's. And what happens when the Dft won't let TOC's engage with unions on pay.

 

[sjm77]

gain, this isn't an issue inherent to TPE. It's all TOC's.

I respectfully disagree, even Northern are not having the sheer proportion of weekday cancellations as TPEx. Others such as LNER seem to be doing much better on non-strike days too. I do accept that TPEx are not 100% to blame though.

 

[mike57]

Again, this isn't an issue inherent to TPE. It's all TOC's. And what happens when the Dft won't let TOC's engage with unions on pay.

I don't really care whose fault it is. The service has deteriorated massively since 2017 and shows no sign of improvement, and this is in spite of investment in new rolling stock.

Really from a passenger point of view one thinks 'A plague on all your houses'

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Again, this isn't an issue inherent to TPE. It's all TOC's. And what happens when the Dft won't let TOC's engage with unions on pay.

Then maybe its about time the TOCs stuck up for their staff, stand up to the DfT and make it public that the DfT wont let them. If all the TOCs did that, not only would TOC management earn some much needed credibility amongst the staff and the general public but it would also break the apparent deadlock as it woukd put the ball firmly into Grant Shapps court and there would be no way he woukd be able to wriggle out of it via plausible deniability.

Whats the worst that can happen? All 13 TOCs suddenly end up DOR? They wouldnt be able to take all 13 back in one go, they dont have the capacity. BOOM! Suddenly the TOCs have a bargaining chip!!!

 

[Jamesrob637]

They’re not all booked 6 cars

No excuse for any to be booked 3 on the reduced frequency.

 

[Starmill]

Then maybe its about time the TOCs stuck up for their staff, stand up to the DfT and make it public that the DfT wont let them. If all the TOCs did that, not only would TOC management earn some much needed credibility amongst the staff and the general public but it would also break the apparent deadlock as it woukd put the ball firmly into Grant Shapps court and there would be no way he woukd be able to wriggle out of it via plausible deniability.

Whats the worst that can happen? All 13 TOCs suddenly end up DOR? They wouldnt be able to take all 13 back in one go, they dont have the capacity. BOOM! Suddenly the TOCs have a bargaining chip!!!

It would be breach of their contract, and also a fairly serious breach of trust. What makes you think that DfT wouldn't just boot them all out and let chaos ensue?

 

[Watershed]

Then maybe its about time the TOCs stuck up for their staff, stand up to the DfT and make it public that the DfT wont let them. If all the TOCs did that, not only would TOC management earn some much needed credibility amongst the staff and the general public but it would also break the apparent deadlock as it woukd put the ball firmly into Grant Shapps court and there would be no way he woukd be able to wriggle out of it via plausible deniability.

Whats the worst that can happen? All 13 TOCs suddenly end up DOR? They wouldnt be able to take all 13 back in one go, they dont have the capacity. BOOM! Suddenly the TOCs have a bargaining chip!!!

The Owning Groups would never sign off on that in a million years. It would quite possibly be illegal, being in breach of their fiduciary duty to their shareholders.

No excuse for any to be booked 3 on the reduced frequency.

Ah yes, I'm sure they've chosen to make some 3 coaches just to inconvenience passengers!

 

[SuperNova]

Then maybe its about time the TOCs stuck up for their staff, stand up to the DfT and make it public that the DfT wont let them. If all the TOCs did that, not only would TOC management earn some much needed credibility amongst the staff and the general public but it would also break the apparent deadlock as it woukd put the ball firmly into Grant Shapps court and there would be no way he woukd be able to wriggle out of it via plausible deniability.

Whats the worst that can happen? All 13 TOCs suddenly end up DOR? They wouldnt be able to take all 13 back in one go, they dont have the capacity. BOOM! Suddenly the TOCs have a bargaining chip!!!

Firstly, TOCs have a contract. As you and I do. This means that any negotiations on pay has to be first approved by DfT. Secondly, they're not going to bite the hand that feeds.

I also find it hard to fathom that most staff don't know what's going on. This has been talked about in messrooms for nearly a year and by managers too... the micromanagement of the DfT, struggling to get basic supplies without proving you need it first, - and then this week with the DfT crafted Avanti tweets!

I respectfully disagree, even Northern are not having the sheer proportion of weekday cancellations as TPEx. Others such as LNER seem to be doing much better on non-strike days too. I do accept that TPEx are not 100% to blame though.

Would this be the same Northern who still don't run services between Huddersfield - Wakefield, Scunthorpe - Doncaster etc? And have drastically cut frequencies?

Also note, you've quoted two OLR operators, who have much more freedom than TOCs under NRC's.

 

[Watershed]

Would this be the same Northern who still don't run services between Huddersfield - Wakefield, Scunthorpe - Doncaster etc? And have drastically cut frequencies?

I think it's fair to say that, whilst these withdrawals aren't uncontroversial, at least they are delivering a much better percentage of their advertised service. Stones and glass houses come to mind...