First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[stait.john]

Most of the cuts are down to the really low driver availability currently, although certain routes have been losing money for some time. So a mix of the two really.

 

[baza585]

Most of the cuts are down to the really low driver availability currently, although certain routes have been losing money for some time. So a mix of the two really.

Yes I suspect operators are using the shortage to justify the elimination of marginal routes, and understandably so.

When the local authority tenders that service, the bids tend to be much higher than they are expecting, because operators are pricing in the difficulty of recruiting additional drivers for those routes.

Troubling times.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes I suspect operators are using the shortage to justify the elimination of marginal routes, and understandably so.

When the local authority tenders that service, the bids tend to be much higher than they are expecting, because operators are pricing in the difficulty of recruiting additional drivers for those routes.

Troubling times.

In terms of routes in Bristol and Bath, the ones that are getting cut are those that have traditionally struggled and/or are council tenders. I think the Bath 11/12, 42 and 82 are supported, the 178 has been kept going only through a contribution from WECA, and the Bristol 5 has experienced numerous changes in the past, along with those routes in Redland (former 9, now 72a).

When faced with a grievous shortage of drivers, do you keep the stronger routes going or sacrifice some of those journeys to keep other loss makers/marginal routes going. It's not quite a judgement of Solomon.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

The 47 registration should be available online soon.

 

[317 forever]

Are First taking over any CT Plus Bristol services other than route M1?

 

[Nailseabus]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that First are taking over the operation of M1?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that First are taking over the operation of M1?

Not officially, no.
But watch this space, I suppose?

 

[Tom Clayton]

Not officially, no.
But watch this space, I suppose?

First don’t own the m1 branded buses. Would they spend all that money to buy them back off CT plus?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First don’t own the m1 branded busses would they spend all that money to buy them back off ct plus?

Are they owned by CT Plus, or leased?

 

[Snow1964]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that First are taking over the operation of M1?

Am I correct in thinking First were awarded the M1 contract, but sub-contracted it to HCT, if so presumably if HCT hand it back, it goes back to First

 

[volvob12]

Am I correct in thinking First were awarded the M1 contract, but sub-contracted it to HCT, if so presumably if HCT hand it back, it goes back to First

There is no contract to operate Metrobus, it’s open access and non exclusive, so anyone can run on the network. My understanding was that First however subcontracted to HCT as they didn’t have the drivers or the depot space. I’ve read that First paid for the gas refuelling station at Parson Street and that the HCT Scanias were on a 10 year lease?

 

[freetoview33]

So lets clear this up! Metrobus is operated under a Quality Partnership Scheme, which does mean any operator can run services on metrobus routes as long as they meet the requirements set out. So in the case of the M1 First signed to say they operate it, then sub contracted it out to HCT/BCT. Now who owns the buses ect I'm not 100% sure but am lead to believe that First along with money from a low emission vehicle grant paid for them and sub leased to HCT/BCT.
So I'm guessing the 3 main reasons it was subcontacted was, BCT had spare drivers, had lower operating costs for the high frequency route and the capacity of the filling station at Lawrence Hill. What I am quite sure of is is BCT fail then the M1 would be up to first to operate and the buses would likely transfer back to them as for drivers and the station at parson street, I'm not sure.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

First don’t own the m1 branded buses. Would they spend all that money to buy them back off CT plus?

West of England Combined Authority (WECA) own them.
I’ve heard Friday for the transfer date, from multiple sources.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2022 ==

There is no contract to operate Metrobus, it’s open access and non exclusive, so anyone can run on the network. My understanding was that First however subcontracted to HCT as they didn’t have the drivers or the depot space. I’ve read that First paid for the gas refuelling station at Parson Street and that the HCT Scanias were on a 10 year lease?

First will operate them out of Lawrence Hill, and due to capacity constraints, two will be outstationed at Hengrove, and shuttled back to be fuelled.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another bit of news that I hadn't seen mentioned before. The almost secret short journeys on the 174 from Wells to Shepton have been pulled as the money has run out. What a waste of money that was!

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/bristol-...pdates/service-change-sunday-28-august-2022-0

 

[Whiteway215]

Why have the Bath Park & Ride timetables changed from today?
Was the contract finishing around now and WECA were in the process of awarding a new P & R contract?
Does anyone know?

 

[Snow1964]

You need to take it up with Wiltshire Council's passenger transport unit - their number is 01225 718080.

It turned out that Wiltshire are about to change the contract for the bus stop displays, that affect routes like D1 so not making repairs at current date.

Seems the old style displays are being turned off at end of August, but the new style ones won’t be until Oct-Nov

Now Wiltshire Council has announced that new Real-Time Passenger Information (RTPI) digital signs will be installed which will enable bus users to see up-to-the-minute bus journey information.

The old signs will be switched off on Wednesday August 31 and 188 new signs will be installed during October and November. This will cost around £600,000.

Good news for bus commuters

THERE has long been an issue with the digital signs at bus stops throughout Wiltshire as they do not provide real-time information which can leave…

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk

 

[Private Baxter]

Another bit of news that I hadn't seen mentioned before. The almost secret short journeys on the 174 from Wells to Shepton have been pulled as the money has run out. What a waste of money that was!

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/bristol-...pdates/service-change-sunday-28-august-2022-0

I didn't even realise there were 174 shorts! Historically of course there were always 161 shorts, which ran sporadically throughout the day to compliment the hourly Frome service.

 

[DaveLondon]

West of England Combined Authority (WECA) own them.
I’ve heard Friday for the transfer date, from multiple sources.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2022 ==


First will operate them out of Lawrence Hill, and due to capacity constraints, two will be outstationed at Hengrove, and shuttled back to be fuelled.

Yes the M1 transfers to First from Friday.

What is your source that WECA own them? CT plus (as it was then) made a big play that they had bought the vehicles outright unlike First who had not. Probably academic now but interesting nevertheless.

 

[diffywood]

According to this ct plus own them

HCT Group - Bristol Community Transport for minibus hire, community cars and more

 

[Cesarcollie]

According to this ct plus own them

HCT Group - Bristol Community Transport for minibus hire, community cars and more

‘Own’ covers many things! In reality they’re probably on HP or a lease from a finance company.

 

[Dai Corner]

‘Own’ covers many things! In reality they’re probably on HP or a lease from a finance company.

• Bristol Community Transport are investing £7 million in 21 biogas buses built largely in Britain by Scania and ADL and installing the necessary refuelling facilities. Grant aid of £1.6m has been received from the Department for Transport under the Low Emission Bus Scheme towards the overall investment. This is the first part of a much bigger scheme awarded by the DfT in 2017 to provide biogas buses in Bristol and South Gloucestershire.

That sounds like they own them. A third of a £1m per Bus seems a feasible purchase price. Unless it's the total of the lease payments payable?

 

[Cesarcollie]

That sounds like they own them. A third of a £1m per Bus seems a feasible purchase price. Unless it's the total of the lease payments payable?

They can still claim they’ve bought them if they’re on finance - just like a private car, or a mortgage. Very few businesses would pay cash for an investment of this magnitude - indeed it’s very unlikely they would have had that amount of cash available!

 

[-Colly405-]

Yes the M1 transfers to First from Friday.

There goes it's reliability then!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

It turned out that Wiltshire are about to change the contract for the bus stop displays, that affect routes like D1 so not making repairs at current date.

Seems the old style displays are being turned off at end of August, but the new style ones won’t be until Oct-Nov

Good news for bus commuters

THERE has long been an issue with the digital signs at bus stops throughout Wiltshire as they do not provide real-time information which can leave…

www.salisburyjournal.co.uk

It was making me wonder if spare part avalability was also partially the cause. I'm guessing these new screens will either be the long three row screens (there's one in Westbury at the sheltered stop by the police station) or it'll be something similar to what WECA (West of England Combined Authority) use in Bath.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was making me wonder if spare part avalability was also partially the cause. I'm guessing these new screens will either be the long three row screens (there's one in Westbury at the sheltered stop by the police station) or it'll be something similar to what WECA (West of England Combined Authority) use in Bath.

They are quite old now. The one at Bradford on Avon still wears the old Wilts and Dorset logo; that's probably 2003 vintage and they've not run the run since 2008 IIRC!

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

There goes it's reliability then!

Very funny, considering it’s First’s timetable anyways, and it’ll be the same drivers TUPE’d over to us.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2022 ==

Why have the Bath Park & Ride timetables changed from today?
Was the contract finishing around now and WECA were in the process of awarding a new P & R contract?
Does anyone know?

Yeah, it’s a new contract, as the tender was up for renewal.

 

[Snow1964]

They are quite old now. The one at Bradford on Avon still wears the old Wilts and Dorset logo; that's probably 2003 vintage and they've not run the run since 2008 IIRC!

More than one stop in Bradford on Avon, still has it, and as well as Wilts and Dorset logo, also have old route numbers 264, 265

One day might get around to adding the D1 to the stops they missed.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

More than one stop in Bradford on Avon, still has it, and as well as Wilts and Dorset logo, also have old route numbers 264, 265

One day might get around to adding the D1 to the stops they missed.

Was thinking of the one by the United Church. I think they were obliged to let the council change the number on the digital stops, hence no Discover branding either.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

More than one stop in Bradford on Avon, still has it, and as well as Wilts and Dorset logo, also have old route numbers 264, 265

One day might get around to adding the D1 to the stops they missed.

There's an old bus stop flag in Chippenham between the railway station and the town bridge which still has the First logo on it, there hasn't been any First services to Chippers for a good few years now. There's probably a good few old flags along the old D3 route between Bath and Melksham before First threw the towel in, that's presuming First did replace the generic Wiltshire Council style flags in favour of the Discover style that were introduced when the D1, D2 and D3 replaced the 265, 267 and 271/272.

 

[-Colly405-]

Very funny, considering it’s First’s timetable anyways, and it’ll be the same drivers TUPE’d over to us.

Good news if the drivers are TUPEing - looking in from the outside it isn't 100% clear what the actual legal setup is (and it doesn't need to be either) and whether TUPE would or could be happening...

Can you reveal whether the existing vehicles will also come across? Again, how the legal / lease arrangements may impact any move isn't visible externally (and doesn't need to be!)?