Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[Energy]

Unless LNR have changed it since LM days, they just work in one pool so what you get is mostly random, though a few services seem to be more likely to have one than the other, possibly just due to which order they go into the depot.

Yeah I always assumed it was effectively random though I find it not uncommon for the 350/2s to be in pairs... wonder if its to do with maintanence.

 

[Chiltern006]

According to Modern Railways, all LNR 730s will be in a 2+2 configuration, instead of the /1s being 3+2

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to Modern Railways, all LNR 730s will be in a 2+2 configuration, instead of the /1s being 3+2

That rumour was here a while back but it is good to confirm it.

Less good is that they'll be used on Crewes and Liverpools which, unless frequency increases, likely means a loss of capacity. I don't think 240m formations can be used on either?

 

[43102EMR]

According to Modern Railways, all LNR 730s will be in a 2+2 configuration, instead of the /1s being 3+2

That probably explains why the /1s have been sent back to Litchurch Lane - I remember seeing one with 2+3 seating back in early 2021 outside of Litchurch Lane. Either way, it’s good to hear LNR have more sense than GA to ditch the cramped 2+3 seating the Aventras have!

 

[Energy]

Either way, it’s good to hear LNR have more sense than GA to ditch the cramped 2+3 seating the Aventras have!

Its a shame GA didn't have it changed when they saw the mockups. When the actual trains arrived they really needed them in service, LNR don't need them as urgently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That probably explains why the /1s have been sent back to Litchurch Lane - I remember seeing one with 2+3 seating back in early 2021 outside of Litchurch Lane. Either way, it’s good to hear LNR have more sense than GA to ditch the cramped 2+3 seating the Aventras have!

How many have already been built? Could be a costly change unless they're just unbolting the third seat (the cantilever support is under the second seat, the third is just supported from that, so it'd be a fairly easy job) and having some with narrow seats and very wide aisles a la 700?

 

[Peter Sarf]

How many have already been built? Could be a costly change unless they're just unbolting the third seat (the cantilever support is under the second seat, the third is just supported from that, so it'd be a fairly easy job) and having some with narrow seats and very wide aisles a la 700?

Hmm, you make me think it might look odd - a sort of 2+0+2 seating arrangement !. The advantage would be that the surplus seats could be bolted back on when everyone turns their back on working from home .

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hmm, you make me think it might look odd - a sort of 2+0+2 seating arrangement !

It doesn't look odd in 700s or indeed 319s. It is probably the most practical layout for busy urban services - lots of standing room and no pointless middle seat, plus prams, bikes and wheelchairs can be moved around the saloon and aren't stuck in their specific section.

I'd rather, and hope, they are proper 2+2, though.

The advantage would be that the surplus seats could be bolted back on when everyone turns their back on working from home .

3+2 is a stupid idea, so I hope not.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It doesn't look odd in 700s or indeed 319s. It is probably the most practical layout for busy urban services - lots of standing room and no pointless middle seat, plus prams, bikes and wheelchairs can be moved around the saloon and aren't stuck in their specific section.

I'd rather, and hope, they are proper 2+2, though.

Yes. I like the wide gangway on the 700s but I would be tempted to use that to gain the legroom for the seats by the window. Granted the 730s might not have that ducting where a humans feet go ?.

3+2 is a stupid idea, so I hope not.

I agree, but I fear that eventually the idea will come round again !. Fortunately long gone are the days I travelled on seats of 6 across !. We must all have been slimmer then though. Now of course we don't have those compartments !.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, but I fear that eventually the idea will come round again !. Fortunately long gone are the days I travelled on seats of 6 across !. We must all have been slimmer then though. Now of course we don't have those compartments !.

To be fair the aisle in a 2.8m wide 3+2 seated coach is about the width of a seat.

 

[Peter Sarf]

To be fair the aisle in a 2.8m wide 3+2 seated coach is about the width of a seat.

Don't go there !.

I do think the 3+2 layout harks back to the (post war) days when we were slimmer (I think less fussy about BO as well) and even had those corridor-less coaches !.

The plus side of all LNWR 730s having the same seating layout is that it will make diagramming easier anyway. Or should I say less relevant !.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The plus side of all LNWR 730s having the same seating layout is that it will make diagramming easier anyway. Or should I say less relevant !.

To be fair I had expected a random unit generator anyway to some extent, though obviously it needs to be avoided to have a 730 and a 350 turn up at Northampton with the intention of coupling them (though I don't doubt that will happen at least once!)

 

[Peter Sarf]

To be fair I had expected a random unit generator anyway to some extent, though obviously it needs to be avoided to have a 730 and a 350 turn up at Northampton with the intention of coupling them (though I don't doubt that will happen at least once!)

I too worry about this. Perhaps they should try to acquire some surplus Desiros ? - oh no wait !.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

According to Modern Railways, all LNR 730s will be in a 2+2 configuration, instead of the /1s being 3+2

I believe this is now the case, I'm not sure which units are at the test track currently, but the 5 car units there are 2+2

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe this is now the case, I'm not sure which units are at the test track currently, but the 5 car units there are 2+2

It was rumoured in this thread above, but now Modern Railways are confirming it I think we can all breathe a massive sigh of relief and anticipate these units will be better than /2s!

Meanwhile, the 720s really should be downseated, even if all they do is remove the third seat which looking at the setup should be just a matter of unbolting it.

 

[Energy]

To be fair I had expected a random unit generator anyway to some extent, though obviously it needs to be avoided to have a 730 and a 350 turn up at Northampton with the intention of coupling them (though I don't doubt that will happen at least once!)

It should be less bad now its only 730s and 350s, previously the chances of 730 (3+2), 730 (2+2) and 350s being kept on the right services were pretty slim eith it looking likely that 3+2 730s would turn up instead of 2+2.

How many trains are required for the Tring, Northampton to Euston and MKC to Euston services? LNWR could concentrate the 730s (with their now wide aisles) on these services and leave the longer ones to 350s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It should be less bad now its only 730s and 350s, previously the chances of 730 (3+2), 730 (2+2) and 350s being kept on the right services were pretty slim eith it looking likely that 3+2 730s would turn up instead of 2+2.

How many trains are required for the Tring, Northampton to Euston and MKC to Euston services? LNWR could concentrate the 730s (with their now wide aisles) on these services and leave the longer ones to 350s.

Modern Railways said that 350s would be used on Euston-Birmingham services and 730s on MKC/Tring stoppers, Crewes and Liverpools, though who knows as I'm sure that was the opposite way round last time I heard it.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Modern Railways said that 350s would be used on Euston-Birmingham services and 730s on MKC/Tring stoppers, Crewes and Liverpools, though who knows as I'm sure that was the opposite way round last time I heard it.

Well unless they change all the diagramming to suit, they will be used all over the network same as the 350/2s I'd have thought. Initially on the Tring stoppers of course but DIs at Crewe are currently being traction trained and they don't sign south of Rugby so take that as you will

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well unless they change all the diagramming to suit, they will be used all over the network same as the 350/2s I'd have thought. Initially on the Tring stoppers of course but DIs at Crewe are currently being traction trained and they don't sign south of Rugby so take that as you will

I was under the impression, but might be wrong, that post December the LNR diagramming would indeed be split into:

1. Euston-Birmingham
2. Euston-Tring and MKC
3. Euston-Crewe
4. Birmingham-Liverpool

I don't know where the "Brum-Crewe via the wobble" service fits, but pick 1 or 4 I guess. Similarly don't know about the peak extras, but I'd think the Tring/Bletchley ones probably 2 and the fast Northamptons probably 1.

 

[Kite159]

If the seating will be "3-1+2" style with a wide aisle, then it is better than 3+2, but still not ideal if the seats don't have armrests or a gap between them as it means passengers overhanging into the aisle, similar to the 700s.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I was under the impression, but might be wrong, that post December the LNR diagramming would indeed be split into:

1. Euston-Birmingham
2. Euston-Tring and MKC
3. Euston-Crewe
4. Birmingham-Liverpool

I don't know where the "Brum-Crewe via the wobble" service fits, but pick 1 or 4 I guess. Similarly don't know about the peak extras, but I'd think the Tring/Bletchley ones probably 2 and the fast Northamptons probably 1.

That would mean either 2&3 or 2&4 for definate, 1 is highly likely. The via Stoke/Tame Bridge would have to fit into 4 given its only signed by the single depot (Crewe)

If the seating will be "3-1+2" style with a wide aisle, then it is better than 3+2, but still not ideal if the seats don't have armrests or a gap between them as it means passengers overhanging into the aisle, similar to the 700s.

Armrests or not, unless they physically can't be moved people overhang into aisles regardless be that body or legs or both

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would mean either 2&3 or 2&4 for definate, 1 is highly likely. The via Stoke/Tame Bridge would have to fit into 4 given its only signed by the single depot (Crewe)

Modern Railways said 2, 3 and 4 as 730, 1 as 350, but that's not what I heard before which was that the Liverpools and Crewes would be 350s because 8-car is the optimal length for these.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Modern Railways said 2, 3 and 4 as 730, 1 as 350, but that's not what I heard before which was that the Liverpools and Crewes would be 350s because 8-car is the optimal length for these.

I would agree with that, with the platform lengths on that stretch 8 is spot on given half of them are 4 car UDS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would agree with that, with the platform lengths on that stretch 8 is spot on given half of them are 4 car UDS.

I think the Liverpool situation has changed a bit - 5.730 twice an hour would make sense and be a welcome capacity increase, but if it's staying hourly it probably needs to be 8.350 unless 10.730 is possible - 5.730 once an hour would be severely overcrowded most times of day.

 

[m4tt]

Noticed this is in the timetable for the next few nights, assuming it will be one of the WMR 730s right? Also I see it is booked for a stop at Tring for 20 mins, is it likely to actually stop or will it just pass through? Hopefully platform 4 as scheduled

Realtime Trains | 5Q10 2357 Bletchley T.M.D. to Kilburn Up & Down Gds Lp | 26/09/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q10 2357 departure from Bletchley T.M.D. to Kilburn Up & Down Gds Lp on 26/09/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43102EMR]

Modern Railways said that 350s would be used on Euston-Birmingham services and 730s on MKC/Tring stoppers, Crewes and Liverpools, though who knows as I'm sure that was the opposite way round last time I heard it.

My understanding is that the 730s will be pooled with the 350s (minus multiple workings), meaning they will be working all over the electrified network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding is that the 730s will be pooled with the 350s (minus multiple workings), meaning they will be working all over the electrified network.

<waits with bated breath for a photo of a 350 and 730 attempting to couple at NMP and some puzzled looking staff>

 

[43102EMR]

<waits with bated breath for a photo of a 350 and 730 attempting to couple at NMP and some puzzled looking staff>

Now THAT would be a sight to behold

 

[SCDR_WMR]

My understanding is that the 730s will be pooled with the 350s (minus multiple workings), meaning they will be working all over the electrified network.

Which is fine so long as diagrams are set up correctly given that there will be double 730 sets on the WCML South.

<waits with bated breath for a photo of a 350 and 730 attempting to couple at NMP and some puzzled looking staff>

Currently there are some puzzled faces trying to get the 3&5 car 730s to couple up together, which you'd think would be a given! I'm sure the Bletchley lads and lasses will just bang a 350/730 combo together and say well that's what the diagram says

I think the Liverpool situation has changed a bit - 5.730 twice an hour would make sense and be a welcome capacity increase, but if it's staying hourly it probably needs to be 8.350 unless 10.730 is possible - 5.730 once an hour would be severely overcrowded most times of day.

Agreed. I think May 23 is up for discussion on the 2tph being reintroduced. Currently I'd say there would still be capacity issues if we kept some 8 car workings.

I know h&s reps have requested 2tph, 1x 8 car semi fast and 1x 4 car stopper. Just need to see whether Winsford will be extended to cope with 5 car 730 or whether they will just use ASDO as the 4 car 350 is a very tight fit

 

[Silverlinky]

Noticed this is in the timetable for the next few nights, assuming it will be one of the WMR 730s right? Also I see it is booked for a stop at Tring for 20 mins, is it likely to actually stop or will it just pass through? Hopefully platform 4 as scheduled

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s45274/2022-09-26/detailed

These test trains are cancelled this week.

730001 and 010 will move Oxley to Bletchley tomorrow with 011 and 012 moving down on Thursday.