Chiltern Railway Ticket Shorting

[Blà Bheinn]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday (10/07/22) I was caught short ticketing on Chiltern Railways.

I boarded the train from Bicester Village to London Marylbone, however it wasn’t until I was approaching London that I opened the Trainline app to check my ticket. I realised then that the ticket I had bought from Marylbone to Bicester two days ago was not a return as I had thought. I then attempted to buy a ticket for the train I was on, but it wouldn’t allow me for a departed train. By this point the only ticket I could purchase for that journey was the last leg from Wembley, so I purchased that one on the Trainline app. I then realised that this was a collection type ticket.

Very stupidly, rather than admit what happened, I tried to collect my ticket to get through the barrier, but was caught. I was pulled to the side and questioned, I panicked and initially lied, but when I couldn’t prove otherwise, I agreed to ticket shorting. I did not appreciate at this point the gravity of what I had done.

I was very tired at the time and not thinking straight. I was asked to provide ID and my information was taken. The part I am concerned about is that I signing something stating I had attempted to avoid paying a full fare. I have been informed that I will receive a letter in the mail.

This was out of character and I have never done anything like this before. I have never committed a crime before. This is also the first time I have been on this train line.

I recently graduated and now working my dream job, and I am now very concerned about a criminal record and how this could impact my life and career. I am willing to pay any fees necessary to settle this out of court.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[30907]

Firstly, don't panic. If this is your first offence (or, at least, the first time you have come to Chiltern's attention) you may find (with a little persistence on your part) that they are willing to accept an "administrative settlement" of the full fare plus a fee. If not, a conviction for a single offence of travelling without a valid ticket is very unlikely to impact your career.
Wait to hear from TIL, the company who act for Chiltern, and come back to us for advice on how to reply (of which there is plenty on here).

Second, by buying a short ticket and trying to use the barriers with it you did attempt to travel without paying the proper fare, so I don't think claiming you were coerced will get you anywhere.

For future reference, the only tickets you could have bought it once you boarded it would have been valid on any (offpeak) train that day. Choosing a later time would have allowed you to buy an e-ticket valid on your train, although you would still have boarded the train without a valid ticket and might still have been caught - it would have been a lesser offence though.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Thank you for your reply.

I really hope so, I know I was in the wrong and would happily pay a fee.

I would still very much like to avoid a conviction and misdemeanour which would remain in my criminal record for life, if I am not mistaken. This is by far my main concern. Any cost and hassle is deserved.

I chose my words badly. I acknowledge my wrongdoing and accept responsibility. I only meant that I felt pressured into signing something I didn’t fully understand and feel very stupid for doing so.

My concern is that by signing this form I have provided them with evidence of my crime and that this will bite me later.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@kyleweir. Welcome to the forum!

May we ask if this is just the first time that you've been short-faring or just the first time you've been caught? Chiltern or their investigation agents will be able to readily inspect your previous ticket purchasing history with Trainline to see if you've ever apparently done something similar.

We've had a few on here who have travelled into Marylebone from the farther away reaches of the Chiltern network and then tried to exit through the barriers with a cheaper ticket from the nearby Wembley Stadium.

Whilst you're not guaranteed to be offered the opportunity to settle out of court, if you are, you might expect to have to pay at least a three figure sum and the full fare(s) avoided.

P.S. Established forum member @Hadders (Senior Fares Advisor) will normally be able to further advise on how to appropriately respond if and when you hear from Chiltern (or their agents) in due course.

P.P.S. If @kyleweir is essentially your real name, you may wish to contact the Forum admin team to get it changed (anonymised).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I would still very much like to avoid a conviction and misdemeanour which would remain in my criminal record for life, if I am not mistaken.

There's some good news - you're mistaken.

If this ends up in court (and there's a fair chance that you will be able to settle matters out of court, so it may not) then you will face one of two charges - travelling without a valid ticket under the railway byelaws, or travelling without a valid ticket with intent to avoid the fare under the Regulation of Railways Act ('RoRA').

Many criminal convictions become 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (RoAA - different from RoRA above!): that means that for many purposes, after they become spent you do not need to mention them to anyone who asks (employers and so on) - this is for many purposes but not all. But when someone is allowed to ask about 'spent' convictions' the question will always be phrased something like 'Notwithstanding the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act...'

How might this affect you? A byelaw conviction becomes 'immediately spent' - so if you apply for a job or something where the RoAA rules apply, you never need to mention it. And a RoRA conviction is spent after a year, which ultimately is not very long.

Given the choice, you still won't want a conviction - but for most purposes a conviction for not paying your train fare is embarrassing (and expensive) rather than disastrous. So try not to worry too much.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Hi, thank you.

This is the first time I have done this, not just the first time I have been caught. This was out of character. It is also the first time I have ever used Chiltern Railways.

At this point a three figure settlement would be the least of my worries. I had no idea just how serious this could get.

There's some good news - you're mistaken.

If this ends up in court (and there's a fair chance that you will be able to settle matters out of court, so it may not) then you will face one of two charges - travelling without a valid ticket under the railway byelaws, or travelling without a valid ticket with intent to avoid the fare under the Regulation of Railways Act ('RoRA').

Many criminal convictions become 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (RoAA - different from RoRA above!): that means that for many purposes, after they become spent you do not need to mention them to anyone who asks (employers and so on) - this is for many purposes but not all. But when someone is allowed to ask about 'spent' convictions' the question will always be phrased something like 'Notwithstanding the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act...'

How might this affect you? A byelaw conviction becomes 'immediately spent' - so if you apply for a job or something where the RoAA rules apply, you never need to mention it. And a RoRA conviction is spent after a year, which ultimately is not very long.

Given the choice, you still won't want a conviction - but for most purposes a conviction for not paying your train fare is embarrassing (and expensive) rather than disastrous. So try not to worry too much.

Hi,

that’s reassuring to read, thank you for taking the time. This would still affect visa applications for countries like the US so I would obviously still like to settle this out of court.

 

[AlterEgo]

OP, where did you try to collect your ticket? At Marylebone? If so, exactly where? Are there ticket collection facilities on the train side of the barrier? I’m a little confused at the sequence of events.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

OP, where did you try to collect your ticket? At Marylebone? If so, exactly where? Are there ticket collection facilities on the train side of the barrier? I’m a little confused at the sequence of events.

Hi,

I collected the ticket at the train side of the barrier (quite stupid I know).

The sequence of events:

•Boarded the train at Bicester Village heading to Marylbone.
•Realised near the end of my journey that my ticket was not a return and I had no valid ticket (innocent mistake).
•Couldn’t buy the ticket for my train (since it had departed).
•Used the Trainline app to buy a ticket for the only remaining leg of my journey (where I went wrong).
•Realised that my ticket was a collection type so collected from Marylbone.
•Got caught.

In hindsight I feel very stupid and regretful.

 

[WesternLancer]

OP needs to be aware that Chiltern use an agent called TIL for fares enforcement and they take a tough line - you may need to write to them when you are asked by them for your version of events 2 or 3 times to secure an out of court settlement - so you may need ongoing advice about that - which no doubt people here will be able to give ref the responses you need to send them to maximize your chances of not getting taken to court.

Not intended to worry you - I think there is a good chance of you being able to settle the matter - but just so you are aware.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,

I collected the ticket at the train side of the barrier (quite stupid I know).

The sequence of events:

•Boarded the train at Bicester Village heading to Marylbone.
•Realised near the end of my journey that my ticket was not a return and I had no valid ticket (innocent mistake).
•Couldn’t buy the ticket for my train (since it had departed).
•Used the Trainline app to buy a ticket for the only remaining leg of my journey (where I went wrong).
•Realised that my ticket was a collection type so collected from Marylbone.
•Got caught.

In hindsight I feel very stupid and regretful.

OK, and so I can be clear, how did you get to the machine at Marylebone to collect the ticket? As I understand it, arriving at Marylebone from Bicester, you’d have to pass through the barriers to get to the machines, is that right? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Dai Corner]

Are there ticket gates at Bicester Village? If so, how did you get through them?

(Just anticipating questions the investigators might ask).

 

[Blà Bheinn]

OP needs to be aware that Chiltern use an agent called TIL for fares enforcement and they take a tough line - you may need to write to them when you are asked by them for your version of events 2 or 3 times to secure an out of court settlement - so you may need ongoing advice about that - which no doubt people here will be able to give ref the responses you need to send them to maximize your chances of not getting taken to court.

Not intended to worry you - I think there is a good chance of you being able to settle the matter - but just so you are aware.

Thank you for the information.

OK, and so I can be clear, how did you get to the machine at Marylebone to collect the ticket? As I understand it, arriving at Marylebone from Bicester, you’d have to pass through the barriers to get to the machines, is that right? Or am I mistaken?

Sorry I wasn’t more clear. I went to the window before the gates to collect in person. There was no other way.

Are there ticket gates at Bicester Village? If so, how did you get through them?

(Just anticipating questions the investigators might ask).

There are no gates on the side of the station I entered, I walked straight onto the train. Good question though.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

OP needs to be aware that Chiltern use an agent called TIL for fares enforcement

Full name (which I think they use on their letters) Transport Investigations Ltd.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Full name (which I think they use on their letters) Transport Investigations Ltd.

Thank you. Do you have any idea how quickly they usually process these things? As in roughly how long I might be waiting on a letter? Thanks

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you. Do you have any idea how quickly they usually process these things? As in roughly how long I might be waiting on a letter? Thanks

At the moment, quite a lot of letters seems to be coming through quite quickly (as in a few days or possibly a few weeks). But it can take as long as six months, so you may be in for a long wait before you're certain that they won't be in touch.

Why six months? Because for offences which are only triable at the magistrate's court, the prosecution must be 'laid' before a magistrate within six months of the offence (I think this is a slight simplification but it's good enough for now). Then the court needs to get in touch with you - which could take a few more weeks.

And because the point of an out of court settlement is that you pay the settlement to avoid prosecution, if there's no risk of prosecution then there's no reason for you to agree an out of court settlement.

So if you haven't heard in maybe seven months (allowing a little bit of extra time for the court to get in touch with you if the railway are going straight to prosecution) then you can expect not to hear anything else.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

At the moment, quite a lot of letters seems to be coming through quite quickly (as in a few days or possibly a few weeks). But it can take as long as six months, so you may be in for a long wait before you're certain that they won't be in touch.

Why six months? Because for offences which are only triable at the magistrate's court, the prosecution must be 'laid' before a magistrate within six months of the offence (I think this is a slight simplification but it's good enough for now). Then the court needs to get in touch with you - which could take a few more weeks.

And because the point of an out of court settlement is that you pay the settlement to avoid prosecution, if there's no risk of prosecution then there's no reason for you to agree an out of court settlement.

So if you haven't heard in maybe seven months (allowing a little bit of extra time for the court to get in touch with you if the railway are going straight to prosecution) then you can expect not to hear anything else.

Understood, thank you.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what others have said about what is likely to happen next, you are likely to receive a letter from the train company, or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. The letter can take up to six months to arrive but 4-6 weeks is more likely. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when you receive it (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what others have said about what is likely to happen next, you are likely to receive a letter from the train company, or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. The letter can take up to six months to arrive but 4-6 weeks is more likely. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when you receive it (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it.

Hi, thank you for adding this.

Once the letter arrives, do I have to accept committing the offence in writing to settle this out of court? I would like to tell the whole story truthfully, but I don't want to incriminate myself. I am also wondering if you think getting a solicitor involved to settle out of court would be a good idea, or if I can do that later if they decline a settlement when I engage with them?

Many thanks again for everyone's advice.

 

[Hadders]

Hi, thank you for adding this.

Once the letter arrives, do I have to accept committing the offence in writing to settle this out of court? I would like to tell the whole story truthfully, but I don't want to incriminate myself. I am also wondering if you think getting a solicitor involved to settle out of court would be a good idea, or if I can do that later if they decline a settlement when I engage with them?

Many thanks again for everyone's advice.

There is little point in involving a solicitor at this point. You need to wait for their letter and see what it says. If you follow the advice I have given then there is usually a good chance of adviding a court appearance, if you haven't come to the train company's attention before.

Chiltern outsource most of their cases to a company called Transport Investigations Limited and sometimes it is necessary to reply to them on more than one occasion to secure an administrative settlement.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi, thank you for adding this.

Once the letter arrives, do I have to accept committing the offence in writing to settle this out of court? I would like to tell the whole story truthfully, but I don't want to incriminate myself.

The best way around this is to simply accept you did not have a valid ticket when you boarded the train. There is not usually any need to incriminate yourself more than is necessary.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

There is little point in involving a solicitor at this point. You need to wait for their letter and see what it says. If you follow the advice I have given then there is usually a good chance of adviding a court appearance, if you haven't come to the train company's attention before.

Chiltern outsource most of their cases to a company called Transport Investigations Limited and sometimes it is necessary to reply to them on more than one occasion to secure an administrative settlement.

Understood, thanks again for you advice. You are all wonderful for taking the time to help.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

The best way around this is to simply accept you did not have a valid ticket when you boarded the train. There is not usually any need to incriminate yourself more than is necessary.

Ok thanks for your advice and taking the time.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Hi all,

I have just received a letter from Chiltern Railways, Notice of Intended Prosecution, please see attached photo of letter.

I would like to ask for some advice on the most suitable reply.

I would like to:
• Apologise and accept responsibility for not travelling with the correct valid ticket.
• Pay a fee to cover the correct rail ticket value and any administrative costs.
• Avoid this going to court.

Many thanks again for your help.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would like to:
• Apologise and accept responsibility for not travelling with the correct valid ticket.
• Pay a fee to cover the correct rail ticket value and any administrative costs.
• Avoid this going to court.

Well those are the three main bases you need to cover. So it is best to draft out a reply, post it here, and if there are any suggestions to edit, we can suggest them. Don't forget to close the letter with a call to action.

 

[Wethebest838]

Hi all,

I have just received a letter from Chiltern Railways, Notice of Intended Prosecution, please see attached photo of letter.

I would like to ask for some advice on the most suitable reply.

I would like to:
• Apologise and accept responsibility for not travelling with the correct valid ticket.
• Pay a fee to cover the correct rail ticket value and any administrative costs.
• Avoid this going to court.

Many thanks again for your help.

Interesting..

Not come from TIL yet we have had other users recently who got letters from TIL.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

Hi all, sorry for the late reply, I have been away on business and have received bad news this week which has thrown me off. Please see my draft response:

“Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to a letter I received from Chiltern Railways on 22nd September.

I would like to formally apologise for failing to produce the correct ticket for my journey from Bicester Village to London Marylbone. I had incorrectly thought on boarding the train that the outbound ticket I had purchased was a return ticket. I accept responsibility for this error and would like to apologise. This is the first time I have done anything like this and this was also the first time I had traveled on Chiltern Railways.

I would like to pay a fee to cover the value of the correct ticket and any administrative costs you have incurred, in order to set this right.

I would like to avoid this going to court. I have learned a valuable lesson from this and will always ensure to have the correct ticket. I feel that the fear of legal action and paying a fee is a strong deterrent to ensure I never do this again.

I look forward to hearing your reply.

Kind regards”

Any suggestions very welcome. Thank you.

 

[Gloster]

Hi all, sorry for the late reply, I have been away on business and have received bad news this week which has thrown me off. Please see my draft response:

“Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to a letter I received from Chiltern Railways on 22nd September.

I would like to formally apologise for failing to produce the correct ticket for my journey from Bicester Village to London Marylbone. I had incorrectly thought on boarding the train that the outbound ticket I had purchased was a return ticket. I accept responsibility for this error and would like to apologise. This is the first time I have done anything like this and this was also the first time I had traveled on Chiltern Railways.

I would like to pay a fee to cover the value of the correct ticket and any administrative costs you have incurred, in order to set this right.

I would like to avoid this going to court. I have learned a valuable lesson from this and will always ensure to have the correct ticket. I feel that the fear of legal action and paying a fee is a strong deterrent to ensure I never do this again.

I look forward to hearing your reply.

Kind regards,


Any suggestions very welcome. Thank you.

I suggest you edit the post to remove your name from the draft.

 

[30907]

You might wish to address the fact that, as well as not buying the right ticket in the first place, you tried to short-fare. As it stands, you have accepted no responsibility for attempting to deceive the train company.

 

[Blà Bheinn]

I wanted to ask how to address that. I realised that I didn’t have a return, but the Trainline app wouldn’t allow me to buy the ticket for the train I was on so I bought a ticket for the remainder of the journey and when asked about this I panicked and lied. This was obviously stupid.

I want to say at least,

“When questioned by railway staff I panicked and lied about my journey. This was out of character and for this I am extremely sorry.”

 

[30907]

I wanted to ask how to address that. ....I want to say at least,

“When questioned by railway staff I panicked and lied about my journey. This was out of character and for this I am extremely sorry.”

I would suggest simply something like:
"When I discovered my mistake I stupidly attempted to buy a ticket which only covered part of my journey. I accept responsibility for my actions and...."

Claiming it was out of character may be true but isn't relevant.