biggest white elephant they are very much. Consider that the original plan was for 22(I think) 185 to be returned to the leasing company makes this feel more like a odd decision they would have been better to keep the 185 than get a new fleet of trains which they are now doing. They now are keeping the whole 185 fleet.
Yes. I do find myself puzzling this. On the bright side TPE do seem to use some Mk5s despite, on the face of it, having enough 185s to completely replace the Mk5s. Hoping this is just due to a training backlog. But it begs the question - when does the contract for the 68s and/or Mk5s come up for renewal ?.
Any advance on these for the ones via York ?.
Couldn't agree more! I think it's like been five years since the first set arrived. We've never had more than 4 diagrams. Biggest waste of money with most sets sitting around doing nothing and 68s on freight. Would have been better to have ordered another 13 802s and have only 3 train types (185, 397, 802)
Hindsight is 20/20... Whilst in retrospect that would clearly have been the most sensible option (or arguably even having an all-802 order), at the time of the franchise bids, the DfT wanted new stock as soon as possible.
4 diagrams in passenger service, which ultimately is what the ‘customer’ wants to see, but behind that there is a lot more going on.
I mean technically there’s little difference between a 397 and an 802 running on electricity, so potentially a fleet of just 185s and 802s would have been ideal. Not that I’m advocating that, as I believe the 397 interior to be far nicer than the 802 one.
Worth flagging that both are designed for 125mph - the Mk5s would need minor adjustments and obviously you need a different loco.
And I suspect the option to replace the hired in 68 with an electric locomotive in the future was considered. Maybe even a Bi-Mode locomotive if the wires are extensive enough by then and coupled with enough diesel power becoming possible. But that is possibly just conjecture that explains the (pre Covid) plan.
... which appears to be what's now under consideration indeed, albeit remaining only 100mph-capable AIUI.
To be fair it's not great at 15mph... Though they might suffer from Mark IV syndrome: apparently they were more comfortable at 140mph than 125mph...
Peter, broadly the info on RTT currently shows:
Thank you. So Scarborough depot will be back in use. I agree, of course, we will have to see if the resources support 6 diagrams per day.
Actually, and I kid you not, it was supposed to be a countdown to the new trains coming in. 3 first, then 2, finally 1. No plan to 'ditch them' in the beginning and they can still be utilised with a different loco. But the fact that they are being moved over to the South route is an indication.
Unlikely.
I didn’t think 185s went there anymore anyway?
Many thanks for the info. I guess we will see for sure very soon!
Not anymore, no (IIRC the last service from Newcastle on a Saturday was one briefly booked for one). But the point is that Newcastle conductors are losing Huddersfield-Leeds, as well as the ability to step in to cover between Leeds and York. These sorts of retrograde changes unfortunately seem to be the direction of travel at the moment.
You say 2 sets stabled and cleaned overnight. Isn't the overnight cleaning the problem with this depot, due to loco engines running and insufficient (south side) noise insulation?
This does make me wonder if these will be stock other than Mk5s+68s serviced overnight at Scarborough.
You can get some idea by tracing the trains from the depot at the start of the day and vice versa in the evening. The 185s don't outstable on the Scarborough route, they all go to/from a depot, so that's a bit of a clue.