What to do next after get a Reported for prosecution

[tb4592]

On 31st Oct, I was caught at the gate at Exeter for using the wrong ticket. They took my ID, phone number, and student accommodation info. I misunderstood about the ticket details and reused the same one twice. I’m really worried on this action as I thought the shown expire date means you can use it again before that date (it’s me being dumb)

This is my first time getting in the trouble and second time travelling alone (but normally not travel that often). I’ve read some information said I will receive a letter. How long does it take to arrive? As I check my mail box quite often and haven’t seen any coming in yet.

Thank you so much

 

[Hadders]

Welcone to the forum!

Did you really think you could only use a ticket once, or were you chancing it and hoping you could get away with it?

As for what will happen next I expect you will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and ask for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

One further thing is that as you're in student accommodation is to make sure you have access to your mail when you are away, for example over the Christmas holidays.

 

[tb4592]

I actually really think I can use it again. It might sound silly but I just keep looking at the expired date and thought if I return before the shown date, it should be fine. I'm being honest that I did not have any intend to dodge or anything. I've learnt the lesson and will be more aware and smarter next time. I'm willing to pay the penalty fare.

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I will be around during holidays so I will make sure to check it.

 

[AlterEgo]

I actually really think I can use it again. It might sound silly but I just keep looking at the expired date and thought if I return before the shown date, it should be fine. I'm being honest that I did not have any intend to dodge or anything. I've learnt the lesson and will be more aware and smarter next time. I'm willing to pay the penalty fare.

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I will be around during holidays so I will make sure to check it.

You won’t be offered a penalty fare but rather the opportunity to settle for the far avoided plus an admin fee of about £100 or thereabouts.

I don’t recommend using “I thought I could reuse tickets over and over again until expiry” in your correspondence with GWR.

 

[spag23]

So the OP thought the expiry date (a month from purchase?) on the Return portion turned it into a ticket that allowed an unlimited number of journeys for a month? For the information of the OP (the other forum members will know this!), there IS such a ticket type available; it's called a monthly Season Ticket. But - understandably - it costs around 20 times the price of a single use ticket. And commuters would not buy these if an "Open Return" gave them the same travel for 1/20th of the price.
Expressing this naive, mistaken, belief to GWR might not do any harm. The only alternative (expressed or inferred) explanation is, in effect, an admission that it was a deliberate evasion.
You might be doing your fellow students a favour by disavowing them of the (common?) misconception that an Open Return is a Season Ticket.

 

[ashkeba]

So the OP thought the expiry date (a month from purchase?) on the Return portion turned it into a ticket that allowed an unlimited number of journeys for a month? For the information of the OP (the other forum members will know this!), there IS such a ticket type available; it's called a monthly Season Ticket. But - understandably - it costs around 20 times the price of a single use ticket. And commuters would not buy these if an "Open Return" gave them the same travel for 1/20th of the price.
Expressing this naive, mistaken, belief to GWR might not do any harm. The only alternative (expressed or inferred) explanation is, in effect, an admission that it was a deliberate evasion.
You might be doing your fellow students a favour by disavowing them of the (common?) misconception that an Open Return is a Season Ticket.

GWR's website does say an off-peak can be used to "return on any Off-Peak service within one calendar month" (not "an" or "any one") with season tickets only much lower downthe page and described as having the advantage of being usable Anytime. It might be obvious to us but I think GWR's descriptions are not perfect for new users. I am not a native speaker but nor are some passengers.

So I feel it is worth including as explanation but it is not a defence because ignorance is not a defence so I would pay up without contest.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Not sure what format of ticket the OP was using, but my most recent paper Off-Peak return ticket (Credit Card Size Ticket) clearly has the words "Valid for one journey" printed on it.

 

[AlterEgo]

"I thought that, unlike the outward portion, the return part of a return ticket could be used over and over again every day for a month until the expiry date" isn't something that would pass the Man On The Clapham Omnibus test and I really don't think the OP should mention it in their reply to GWR, even if they do settle pretty much every time. It is an opinion that would be exposed as unreasonable with just a few questions exploring why they would think that.

 

[Haywain]

GWR's website does say an off-peak can be used to "return on any Off-Peak service within one calendar month" (not "an" or "any one") with season tickets only much lower downthe page and described as having the advantage of being usable Anytime. It might be obvious to us but I think GWR's descriptions are not perfect for new users. I am not a native speaker but nor are some passengers.

So I feel it is worth including as explanation but it is not a defence because ignorance is not a defence so I would pay up without contest.

I think it would be stretching credulity to use such an interpretation. Our ticketing affords more flexibility than most public transport ticketing around the world but I cannot see that any reasonable person, no matter what their native language, would draw such a conclusion.

 

[spag23]

But least GWR might consider the OP to be "dumb" (his own words!), rather than criminal. Not that this excuse would cut much ice in respect of the eventual penalty.

 

[ashkeba]

Not sure what format of ticket the OP was using, but my most recent paper Off-Peak return ticket (Credit Card Size Ticket) clearly has the words "Valid for one journey" printed on it.

That wording does not seem to be on e tickets. It should be. There is room for a link to Smartix, so there should be room for this.

If the OP was using an old style card ticket, wouldn't the Exeter gate have kept it after the first use? And if not, would it have failed to scan a second time? I thought the magnet stripes were not unique and not wiped on exit.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

If the OP was “reusing” the return portion of the ticket, how were they making the repeated outbound journeys? With an open return in the other direction, by any chance? It stretches credibility that anyone would believe that was permitted (as opposed to “possible to get away with”), especially considering (as mentioned above) the far higher price of a monthly season ticket.

 

[6Gman]

On 31st Oct, I was caught at the gate at Exeter for using the wrong ticket. They took my ID, phone number, and student accommodation info. I misunderstood about the ticket details and reused the same one twice. I’m really worried on this action as I thought the shown expire date means you can use it again before that date (it’s me being dumb)

This is my first time getting in the trouble and second time travelling alone (but normally not travel that often). I’ve read some information said I will receive a letter. How long does it take to arrive? As I check my mail box quite often and haven’t seen any coming in yet.

Thank you so much

I think we may be able to give better advice if we could understand exactly what happened here.

You are a student in Exeter?
And you purchased a return ticket to somewhere (not important where, but just to make it easier to follow let's say Birmingham).

You travelled to Birmingham and then returned to Exeter. No problem, all in order.

You then noticed that the ticket was still "in date" so to speak and assumed (incorrectly) that it meant you could use it again.

So you used the ticket a second time for the same return journey but you were stopped on return to Exeter?

Is that correct?

 

[ChewChewTrain]

To add to the above questions, how did the inspector know the ticket had already been used?

 

[WesternLancer]

On 31st Oct, I was caught at the gate at Exeter for using the wrong ticket. They took my ID, phone number, and student accommodation info. I misunderstood about the ticket details and reused the same one twice. I’m really worried on this action as I thought the shown expire date means you can use it again before that date (it’s me being dumb)

This is my first time getting in the trouble and second time travelling alone (but normally not travel that often). I’ve read some information said I will receive a letter. How long does it take to arrive? As I check my mail box quite often and haven’t seen any coming in yet.

Thank you so much

whilst I'm minded to believe you - before you explain it to the railway you will need to think carefully about how you word it - think about it from the point of view of the person reading your explanation in a team that deals with hundreds of ticket evasions every day.

I can imagine the banter in the office...."hey Dave, have a look at this, this guy must think we were born yesterday if he thinks we're going to believe this...."

You will need to say along lines that are simply eg 'I misunderstood the validity of the ticket and had no intention not to pay any fare owed. I apologies for this error and now understand clearly the ticket validity and I will not let this happen again. Please could I make a payment to cover any sum owed as I would not like the matter to have to be dealt with in court'

 

[tb4592]

I think we may be able to give better advice if we could understand exactly what happened here.

You are a student in Exeter?
And you purchased a return ticket to somewhere (not important where, but just to make it easier to follow let's say Birmingham).

You travelled to Birmingham and then returned to Exeter. No problem, all in order.

You then noticed that the ticket was still "in date" so to speak and assumed (incorrectly) that it meant you could use it again.

So you used the ticket a second time for the same return journey but you were stopped on return to Exeter?

Is that correct?

Yes that is correct to my situation

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==

To add to the above questions, how did the inspector know the ticket had already been used?

When I was scanning for exit, it didn't work. So the inspector scan my code to see what happened

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==

whilst I'm minded to believe you - before you explain it to the railway you will need to think carefully about how you word it - think about it from the point of view of the person reading your explanation in a team that deals with hundreds of ticket evasions every day.

I can imagine the banter in the office...."hey Dave, have a look at this, this guy must think we were born yesterday if he thinks we're going to believe this...."

You will need to say along lines that are simply eg 'I misunderstood the validity of the ticket and had no intention not to pay any fare owed. I apologies for this error and now understand clearly the ticket validity and I will not let this happen again. Please could I make a payment to cover any sum owed as I would not like the matter to have to be dealt with in court'

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I'll post here again when the letter comes in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2022 ==

That wording does not seem to be on e tickets. It should be. There is room for a link to Smartix, so there should be room for this.

If the OP was using an old style card ticket, wouldn't the Exeter gate have kept it after the first use? And if not, would it have failed to scan a second time? I thought the magnet stripes were not unique and not wiped on exit.

It's a ticket with qr code scan in the application

 

[ashkeba]

To add to the above questions, how did the inspector know the ticket had already been used?

The most likely is that it was an e ticket already scanned?

 

[spag23]

If the OP was “reusing” the return portion of the ticket, how were they making the repeated outbound journeys? With an open return in the other direction, by any chance? It stretches credibility that anyone would believe that was permitted (as opposed to “possible to get away with”), especially considering (as mentioned above) the far higher price of a monthly season ticket.

As above, the OP hasn't yet clarified how the multiple outbound journeys were ticketed. I'd been assuming it was with separate - ie valid - singles.

 

[Wolfie]

Not sure what format of ticket the OP was using, but my most recent paper Off-Peak return ticket (Credit Card Size Ticket) clearly has the words "Valid for one journey" printed on it.

In my experience that has been the case for months if not years. I assume that the text was introduced to prevent exactly the situation (or attempted defence) the OP describes. If e-tickets don't do that then l agree that should change.

 

[tb4592]

As above, the OP hasn't yet clarified how the multiple outbound journeys were ticketed. I'd been assuming it was with separate - ie valid - singles.

As above, the OP hasn't yet clarified how the multiple outbound journeys were ticketed. I'd been assuming it was with separate - ie valid - singles.

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but the ticket is single. I travelled to the same destination (meet friends) and used the same ticket for Inbound (in Exeter) but I paid for the Outbound (to the destination).

Actually, I should know that the ticket wasn’t working before travelling back to Exeter as I scanned and it’s not working (I accept that it’s my fault to think that I can reuse). The staff came to help but didn’t say anything. So I get inspected at the destination (Exeter).

 

[furlong]

Actually, I should know that the ticket wasn’t working before travelling back to Exeter as I scanned and it’s not working (I accept that it’s my fault to think that I can reuse). The staff came to help but didn’t say anything. So I get inspected at the destination (Exeter).

That could be crucial information that limits how they proceed. Make your own record of precisely what happened there before you forget. It might interfere with their ability to prosecute, opening up some possible lines of defence and making the railway potentially complicit in the commission of any offences they might allege. E.g. After a barrier inspection by a railway company deemed the ticket invalid, the railway company nevertheless took positive action to override the invalidity and allow you to board the service, basically providing authority to travel with that ticket? Then later the railway changed its mind and decided not to allow it after all?

 

[Roelways]

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but the ticket is single. I travelled to the same destination (meet friends) and used the same ticket for Inbound (in Exeter) but I paid for the Outbound (to the destination).

Actually, I should know that the ticket wasn’t working before travelling back to Exeter as I scanned and it’s not working (I accept that it’s my fault to think that I can reuse). The staff came to help but didn’t say anything. So I get inspected at the destination (Exeter).

As the staff let you past the gate line (I'm assuming this station had ticket gates) knowing your ticket is invalid (or at least should have reasonably known) this could come under circumstance 6.1.2 in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, as this could be seen as being "permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff (as furlong pointed out in the post above) which is one of the exemptions on needing a valid ticket to travel. This is arguable at best as they didn't say you could board specifically, but it is reasonable for the action of being allowed through alone to be interpreted as permission to travel and as such not requiring a valid ticket i.e no grounds for prosecution.

As stated above, definitely note down what exactly happened to the best of your ability.

A bit OT but which Exeter station did you arrive into? I've not interacted with the St Davids gate staff that much but the Central gate staff are usually quite good about this sort of thing from my limited experience as a recently enrolled uni student.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Not sure if I understand this correctly, but the ticket is single. I travelled to the same destination (meet friends) and used the same ticket for Inbound (in Exeter) but I paid for the Outbound (to the destination).

Actually, I should know that the ticket wasn’t working before travelling back to Exeter as I scanned and it’s not working (I accept that it’s my fault to think that I can reuse). The staff came to help but didn’t say anything. So I get inspected at the destination (Exeter).

So, one Off Peak Return on a particular day?
Then a Off Peak Single on a later day?

 

[tb4592]

That could be crucial information that limits how they proceed. Make your own record of precisely what happened there before you forget. It might interfere with their ability to prosecute, opening up some possible lines of defence and making the railway potentially complicit in the commission of any offences they might allege. E.g. After a barrier inspection by a railway company deemed the ticket invalid, the railway company nevertheless took positive action to override the invalidity and allow you to board the service, basically providing authority to travel with that ticket? Then later the railway changed its mind and decided not to allow it after all?

I'm not sure about their process, they allowed me to board with that ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

As the staff let you past the gate line (I'm assuming this station had ticket gates) knowing your ticket is invalid (or at least should have reasonably known) this could come under circumstance 6.1.2 in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, as this could be seen as being "permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff (as furlong pointed out in the post above) which is one of the exemptions on needing a valid ticket to travel. This is arguable at best as they didn't say you could board specifically, but it is reasonable for the action of being allowed through alone to be interpreted as permission to travel and as such not requiring a valid ticket i.e no grounds for prosecution.

As stated above, definitely note down what exactly happened to the best of your ability.

A bit OT but which Exeter station did you arrive into? I've not interacted with the St Davids gate staff that much but the Central gate staff are usually quite good about this sort of thing from my limited experience as a recently enrolled uni student.

It's Exeter Central Station

 

[tb4592]

So, one Off Peak Return on a particular day?
Then a Off Peak Single on a later day?

I've checked it, Off Peak Single (I bought it to the destination) and another Off Peak Single (return to Exeter - which has been used once and I misunderstood about the ticket)

 

[30907]

I've checked it, Off Peak Single (I bought it to the destination) and another Off Peak Single (return to Exeter - which has been used once and I misunderstood about the ticket)

You mean "for your return journey from N to Exeter" presumably.
An Offpeak Single is valid for one day only, even if the gateline staff at N misread or didn't notice the date.

 

[island]

As the staff let you past the gate line (I'm assuming this station had ticket gates) knowing your ticket is invalid (or at least should have reasonably known) this could come under circumstance 6.1.2 in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, as this could be seen as being "permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff (as furlong pointed out in the post above) which is one of the exemptions on needing a valid ticket to travel. This is arguable at best as they didn't say you could board specifically, but it is reasonable for the action of being allowed through alone to be interpreted as permission to travel and as such not requiring a valid ticket i.e no grounds for prosecution.

I am afraid this is clutching at straws. Being let through a gateline can in no way be construed as granting permission to board a train.