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Mark Harper will be on Laura Kuenssberg's programme today (27/11/2022 BBC1 09:00)

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zwk500

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How much of a deal are Mick Lynch and the wider RMT making of the deals they settled with TfW and Scotrail? If I was him/them I'd be making this known in every media round from here as proof that they're happy to settle for deals, even when below inflation, we just need one put forward by NR, etc., to vote on.
It is, of course, possible that there is c.90% of a deal ready between the companies and the RMT, and that to enable the negotiotions to proceed in good faith both sides have agreed to a period of restricted media activity while they hammer out that last little bit.
If you're close to an agreement, it's best not to wind people up. Remember a good compromise leaves nobody happy, and both sides will have given ground to reach common agreement. There are times to go public, but it's also important sometimes to keep the air clear to allow calm heads around the table.
 
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Bald Rick

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If I was him/them I'd be making this known in every media round from here as proof that they're happy to settle for deals, even when below inflation, we just need one put forward by NR, etc., to vote on.

There’s been a deal from NR for months. Not that the membership have had a chance to vote on it directly (although there has been a subsequent re ballot).
 

brad465

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There’s been a deal from NR for months. Not that the membership have had a chance to vote on it directly (although there has been a subsequent re ballot).
Does this mean the membership have now voted on it? I do agree with the notion that they should have had a vote at first.

Meanwhile Zahawi has resorted to saying Putin wants to see strikes happening, which sounds like desperation:


It is unfair for unions to "disrupt people's lives" with public-sector strikes at Christmas, Conservative chairman Nadhim Zahawi has said.
He said plans were in place to draft in the military to drive ambulances and secure borders if walkouts went ahead.
Mr Zahawi also told the BBC Russian President Vladimir Putin "wants to see" strikes, but unions criticised this.
Thousands of workers from various industries are set to strike this month in disputes over pay and conditions.
Some unions say pay should match the cost of living, which is increasing at its fastest rate in 40 years, largely as a result of rising food and energy prices.
Some of the most high-profile strikes have been called by unions representing workers in the NHS, the railways and the Royal Mail.

Nurses in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will strike over two days this month, in what is set to be their biggest walkout in the NHS's history.
Elsewhere, rail strikes will be held across four 48-hour periods in December and January, leaving passengers facing severe disruption to Christmas travel.
In an interview on the BBC's Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg programme, Mr Zahawi was asked what the government was doing to end the strikes.
The minister said President Putin's war in Ukraine - which has sent energy costs soaring - was the main driver of rising prices and pressure on pay.
He suggested some of the pay rises demanded would further stroke inflation - which is the increase in the price of something over time - which would "hurt the most vulnerable".
The government has repeatedly urged unions and employers to negotiate settlements and halt strike action, saying it can not afford pay rises to cover inflation.
But unions say workers have faced real-terms cuts to pay over many years and deserve a fair deal that reflects the current cost of living.
 

Annetts key

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How can you put an offer to the members of your union if (1) it still does not have enough detail on the changes (applies to maintenance and CAPEX/Works Delivery employees) and (2) the pay rise is insufficient?

Keep in mind that as there is no new money available (according to the companies), any funds for a pay increase have to come from savings. That means worse terms and conditions for the current employees, etc…

Strangely enough, the RMT union takes the view that going backwards with regards to terms and conditions is not acceptable.
 

Bald Rick

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How can you put an offer to the members of your union if (1) it still does not have enough detail on the changes (applies to maintenance and CAPEX/Works Delivery employees) and (2) the pay rise is insufficient?

Who says the pay rise is insufficient? The members haven’t had the opportunity to say so…
 

Annetts key

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There is loads of detail! Although that’s not to say every part of it has been passed on by the reps.
So has Network Rail now actually published its new “assurance” procedure on powered points for welders to carry out a safety test in place of the FPL safety test that is currently performed by qualified S&T staff?

Has Network Rail defined exactly what they expect OHL staff to do with respect to tree felling, cropping or other tree surgery that is normally carried out by qualified “off-track” staff?

What is the plan for depots that are on former Amey Rail 40 hour contracts if they choose to take a former Carillion/GTRM contract? What happens when Network Rail recruit new staff in these depots on Carillion/GTRM contracts?

Who says the pay rise is insufficient? The members haven’t had the opportunity to say so…
The unions do communicate with their members you know.

And if the members were happy with what the employers are proposing (okay, just Network Rail, as I don’t think any of the DfT controlled TOCs have actually made a formal offer yet, but I may be wrong here), why do you think there was such a large vote in favour of further industrial action?
 

winks

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Surely all parties now appreciate that this cannot be allowed to drag on indefinitely. What was the longest rail strike period without resolution in the past?
Didn’t the Southern OBS dispute go on for years ? I don’t think there was even a formal resolution, I may be mistaken…
 

43066

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Didn’t the Southern OBS dispute go on for years ? I don’t think there was even a formal resolution, I may be mistaken…

I suppose that had a definite ending in the sense that the most of the staff ended up being redeployed as OBS, and are now recognised by the union.
 

jon0844

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Meanwhile Zahawi has resorted to saying Putin wants to see strikes happening, which sounds like desperation:

As bad as Grant Shapps going on TV last Sunday telling people that nurses wouldn't really want to go on strike as it could (paraphrasing) lead to people dying, and no nurse would want that.

Guilt tripping isn't going to work at this stage.
 

Deepgreen

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Does this mean the membership have now voted on it? I do agree with the notion that they should have had a vote at first.

Meanwhile Zahawi has resorted to saying Putin wants to see strikes happening, which sounds like desperation:

Yes, an appalling depth to plumb for this government. I shouldn't be surprised at them, but...
 

800001

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Yes, an appalling depth to plumb for this government. I shouldn't be surprised at them, but...
He the one who claimed £4K for heating his stables? Don’t listen to a word that man say. Lining his own pocket and to hell with anyone else.
 

185

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Journalist from Rail Magazine leaking a proposed offer on twitter.

Link below



Gobble gobble gobble, shall I vote for christmas???

You'd have to be mad :)

Edit.. I can see them going in at the start with ii. and iii. and withdrawing them in lieu of lifting the pay rise - although RDG TOCs 'chancing', and going press with it, will probably cause the dispute to go on far longer... just like Avanti boss blaming those lazy, workshy drivers for "being on a day off".
 

the sniper

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Who says the pay rise is insufficient? The members haven’t had the opportunity to say so…
Journalist from Rail Magazine leaking a proposed offer on twitter.

Link below


If it's like that, then it'd be pointless wasting money on a ballot... 4% without the (clearly, massively more valuable and a non-starter for many regardless) changes attached, may be a more sensible proposition to put to the members, though even so I doubt its chances of acceptance.
 
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800001

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What are these ticket office staff and guards going to do until april 2024 when the compulsory redundancy would expire?!!
I can imagine guards, would be regraded to focus on revenue. That’s my thoughts. Ticket office staff? More customer faced. Again just my thoughts.
 

800001

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The cynic in me wonders if that's deliberate in order to get a rejection so the unions can concretely be blamed.
With this government it would not surprise me. Lay the blame at the RMT for the Xmas strikes
 

Bald Rick

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So has Network Rail now actually published its new “assurance” procedure on powered points for welders to carry out a safety test in place of the FPL safety test that is currently performed by qualified S&T staff?

Has Network Rail defined exactly what they expect OHL staff to do with respect to tree felling, cropping or other tree surgery that is normally carried out by qualified “off-track” staff?

What is the plan for depots that are on former Amey Rail 40 hour contracts if they choose to take a former Carillion/GTRM contract? What happens when Network Rail recruit new staff in these depots on Carillion/GTRM contracts?

No idea. What have the reps received when they asked?

As an aside, the first two would not be covered in the principles consultation though.

The unions do communicate with their members you know.

I know. I see the Comms. I also see what isn’t said.

why do you think there was such a large vote in favour of further industrial action?

That is something of a mystery.
 

physics34

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12 car DOO on southern and TL has paved the way im afraid. Im totally against unstaffed trains though, especially busy trains. The OBS situation on SN works reasonably well.... but maybe not for the TOCs or Govt. They are all on Conductors money anyway. Hardly any savings made.
 

whoosh

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Meanwhile Zahawi has resorted to saying Putin wants to see strikes happening, which sounds like desperation:

Desperation totally. I'm 99% certain that Putin is talking about the US railroads where there is industrial unrest also. This is a greater issue because of the huge amount of freight carried (it's a freight railway with small amounts of passenger traffic)
As if Putin cares that much about our little island and it's trains - mostly passenger ones.
The cynic in me wonders if that's deliberate in order to get a rejection so the unions can concretely be blamed.
They want to finally achieve widespread DOO which was started off in the 80s. When the Southern dispute happened in 2016, I thought it would end up along similar lines to the Strathclyde Manning Agreement. It only took around 20 years to get there!
 
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