SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Kite159]

Blimey, wouldn't entirely surprise me if thats true. I don't want to jump to conclusions though.
What is it with SWR trying to get new trains for the PDL? First the 442s, and now this.

I wonder what they will do with the rest of the 458s in the mean time. Just keep them where they are until the 701s?

To keep the Petersfield massive happy who hate the 3+2 seating on the 450s

 

[jackot]

To keep the Petersfield massive happy who hate the 3+2 seating on the 450s

Ahh the Petersfield lot. Wait until they hear SWRs new plans to put 455s on the PDL retrofitted with new 3+2 seating - Not yet confirmed but you never know...

 

[swt_passenger]

To keep the Petersfield massive happy who hate the 3+2 seating on the 450s

If as I suspect many of the Petersfield lot are working from home permanently, I suggest SWR just tell them to take a hike.

 

[JonathanH]

So, I read on social media the other day a comment that alleges that an "internal email" states that due to significant corrosion being found on the first pair of units that went for conversion the project is being scrapped due to the cost of rectification. The 458s will go off-lease instead and 450s will remain permanently on Portsmouth fasts.

Seems a bit odd they would get to the point of painting one of the converted 458 is corrosion if a show stopper.

On the other hand, if Alstom are looking to present a big bill for the remaining 26 units, that could find no one willing to pay for the cost of rectification.

As you note, corrosion was one of the issues with the 460 conversion programme so it should have already been known about and taken into account.

 

[jackot]

As you note, corrosion was one of the issues with the 460 conversion programme so it should have already been known about and taken into account.

Yes, you'd think they would have done some thorough checks for corrosion knowing the issues with the 460s (and the 334s IIRC), before painting one as you said. Seems very poorly thought out if true, but this is SWR after all.

 

[JonathanH]

Seems very poorly thought out if true, but this is SWR after all.

...or it indicates that corrosion being blamed for cancellation is indeed wibble as the OP indicated it might be.

 

[fgwrich]

Corrosion seems to be a recurring theme for the Millennium era Alstom stock. And unfortunately for something else made in the West Midlands (Landrover fan here )

So perhaps this may see off the Triggers Broom Junipers at last then!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The 458s will go off-lease instead and 450s will remain permanently on Portsmouth fasts.

To be fair around 50% of the Portsmouth fasts are 444s anyway.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Seems a bit odd they would get to the point of painting one of the converted 458 is corrosion if a show stopper.

much as i see this as a waste of money in these straightened times why would they do that if the vehicle integrity was that badly compromised. sounds like wibble to me

 

[mullinsj08]

If as I suspect many of the Petersfield lot are working from home permanently, I suggest SWR just tell them to take a hike.

We (the Petersfield lot) may be working from home but we still want our shiny new trains.

And while we’re at it, where’s the Waitrose trolley service we requested?

 

[D6130]

We (the Petersfield lot) may be working from home but we still want our shiny new trains.

When I was commuting from Petersfield to Guildford, Woking and finally Waterloo (1973-1978), the local commuters moaned like hell if their beloved 2+2 seat CIGs were replaced by 2+3 seat VEPs. Plus ca change!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve seen the seats.

What looks like the same seat frames in standard but with thinner cushions, and of course the SWR moquette including leather top, plus armrests. Looks very comfortable, I think.

First class has the usual leather FISA Lean only a variant with a ridiculous looking blue moquette part in the middle. Looks somewhat uncomfortable.

 

[43096]

I’ve seen the seats.

What looks like the same seat frames in standard but with thinner cushions, and of course the SWR moquette including leather top, plus armrests. Looks very comfortable, I think.

First class has the usual leather FISA Lean only a variant with a ridiculous looking blue moquette part in the middle. Looks somewhat uncomfortable.

Moquette or flat cloth? SWR have used flat cloth on the Desiros.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’ve seen the seats.

What looks like the same seat frames in standard but with thinner cushions, and of course the SWR moquette including leather top, plus armrests. Looks very comfortable, I think.

First class has the usual leather FISA Lean only a variant with a ridiculous looking blue moquette part in the middle. Looks somewhat uncomfortable.

The current former 1st Class area isn't great anyway. The seats and the tables are far too large, making for a very cramped experience. Hopefully this aspect will be better.

 

[pompeyfan]

I’ve seen the seats.

What looks like the same seat frames in standard but with thinner cushions, and of course the SWR moquette including leather top, plus armrests. Looks very comfortable, I think.

First class has the usual leather FISA Lean only a variant with a ridiculous looking blue moquette part in the middle. Looks somewhat uncomfortable.

I’m assuming you’ll share said photo with us eventually and you’ve temporarily forgotten the forum rules?

 

[Wolfie]

Ahh the Petersfield lot. Wait until they hear SWRs new plans to put 455s on the PDL retrofitted with new 3+2 seating - Not yet confirmed but you never know...

Nah, the 350/2s, completely unrefurbished apart from third rail kit.... What the hell makes Petersfield, a complete non-entity of a place, so special anyway?

 

[pompeyfan]

Nah, the 350/2s, completely unrefurbished apart from third rail kit.... What the hell makes Petersfield, a complete non-entity of a place, so special anyway?

It’s not so much the town itself, it’s the towns and villages within a 20 mile radius that are more the issue, there is a LOT of money / wealth in circulation. I believe I’m right in saying A272 connects Winchester to Midhurst which has a large amount of mansions and large gated houses, and runs straight through Petersfield. Haslemere is very similar.

 

[DelW]

It's been mentioned elsewhere that SWR is one of the TOCs that has been most affected by the post-Covid collapse of sales of first-class season tickets. A contributory factor (albeit probably small in effect) might be that Covid coincided with SWR's refurbishment of the 444s, which removed the spacious 2+1 seated first class saloon, and replaced it with a much smaller and cramped 2+2 first class zone. The 458s might have given an opportunity to rethink this, since arguably "cram in as many seats as you can" is less a necessity now. I imagine it's too late for that now though, even if the 458s do eventually arrive on the Direct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been mentioned elsewhere that SWR is one of the TOCs that has been most affected by the post-Covid collapse of sales of first-class season tickets. A contributory factor (albeit probably small in effect) might be that Covid coincided with SWR's refurbishment of the 444s, which removed the spacious 2+1 seated first class saloon, and replaced it with a much smaller and cramped 2+2 first class zone. The 458s might have given an opportunity to rethink this, since arguably "cram in as many seats as you can" is less a necessity now. I imagine it's too late for that now though, even if the 458s do eventually arrive on the Direct.

I remain of the view that I wouldn't purchase a ticket for 2+2 First Class other than on a 3+2 seated train, so I'd certainly "downgrade"!

 

[Goldfish62]

It's been mentioned elsewhere that SWR is one of the TOCs that has been most affected by the post-Covid collapse of sales of first-class season tickets. A contributory factor (albeit probably small in effect) might be that Covid coincided with SWR's refurbishment of the 444s, which removed the spacious 2+1 seated first class saloon, and replaced it with a much smaller and cramped 2+2 first class zone.

I think that's more to do with people in the areas served by SWR being more likely to be in jobs where they're able to readily work from home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that's more to do with people in the areas served by SWR being more likely to be in jobs where they're able to readily work from home.

I'm sure that's true too - but if you want to make First Class something leisure passengers or discretionary ones will buy up to, it needs to be markedly better than Standard, antimacassars and curtains won't cut it.

I've done 1st on 319s (best 1st on LNR) but I won't do it on 350s. Thing is, if it was 2+1 I would.

 

[DelW]

I think that's more to do with people in the areas served by SWR being more likely to be in jobs where they're able to readily work from home.

Indeed, that's why I referred to it being a "contributory factor ... probably small". I doubt the change would deter people from travelling, but they might trade down from a first class season to once or twice a week standard class tickets.

I used occasionally to splash out on first if I'd be travelling on a 444, but like @Bletchleyite, I haven't done so post refurb as I don't consider it's worth it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, that's why I referred to it being a "contributory factor ... probably small". I doubt the change would deter people from travelling, but they might trade down from a first class season to once or twice a week standard class tickets.

I used occasionally to splash out on first if I'd be travelling on a 444, but like @Bletchleyite, I haven't done so post refurb as I don't consider it's worth it.

I have yet to travel on a refurb 444. They don't sully themselves with my part of the SWR network.

 

[DanNCL]

I’m assuming you’ll share said photo with us eventually and you’ve temporarily forgotten the forum rules?

As I'm sure you'll know some things cannot be shared publicly, but there's nothing to stop us from mentioning them.

 

[pompeyfan]

As I'm sure you'll know some things cannot be shared publicly, but there's nothing to stop us from mentioning them.

But they obviously have been shown to members of the public!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m assuming you’ll share said photo with us eventually and you’ve temporarily forgotten the forum rules?

Which forum rule is that?!

But they obviously have been shown to members of the public!

Going by what assumption?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2022 ==

Moquette or flat cloth? SWR have used flat cloth on the Desiros.

It looks like block colour (no pattern) blue moquette in the middle of the seat, with leather for the headrest and on the sides of the seat.

 

[RealTrains07]

So, I read on social media the other day a comment that alleges that an "internal email" states that due to significant corrosion being found on the first pair of units that went for conversion the project is being scrapped due to the cost of rectification. The 458s will go off-lease instead and 450s will remain permanently on Portsmouth fasts.

It might be complete wibble. On the other hand it might be true. Significant corrosion was found in the Class 460s which delayed the five car conversion project.

Begs the question if corrosion was such a big issue for the 458s why wasnt this issue found earlier and rectified then?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've done 1st on 319s (best 1st on LNR) but I won't do it on 350s. Thing is, if it was 2+1 I would.

I’m assure you usually have full phone battery when you board then

 

[Goldfish62]

Begs the question if corrosion was such a big issue for the 458s why wasnt this issue found earlier and rectified then?

I suppose one possibility is that it was once the units were stripped back, but that Alstom were asked to complete the work to ascertain how much it would cost.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m assure you usually have full phone battery when you board then

I carry a power bank. It's not hard.

I don't recall ever having charged my phone on a train. It's not really harder to carry a small power bank than a USB cable. I've used sockets for my laptop, but my current one has a whole business day's worth of battery life (about 9 hours) so even that's less important.