GWR Class 769 information. (Units no longer with GWR - Off Lease March 23)

[DelW]

Will Class 769 units be running this coming Wednesday or Thursday on the North Downs route?

They've normally been running M/W/F only, for route and traction knowledge retention (never in public service). Since the units won't ever enter service on GWR (or possibly anywhere else), there doesn't seem to be any point in wasting staff time by continuing with these.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They've normally been running M/W/F only, for route and traction knowledge retention (never in public service). Since the units won't ever enter service on GWR (or possibly anywhere else), there doesn't seem to be any point in wasting staff time by continuing with these.

So much for government commitment to decarbonisation

 

[JonathanH]

So much for government commitment to decarbonisation

If they can't be made to work, there really isn't much option but to bin them, decarbonisation objectives and commitment or not.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If they can't be made to work, there really isn't much option but to bin them, decarbonisation objectives and commitment or not.

They were running pretty reliably on the M/W/F training runs with three changeovers required each way that proved the system. Reality is this is an easy option for saving money unfortunately and GWR have to do what they can to protect the wider network.

 

[Southern Dvr]

GWR have to do what they’re told, the DfT have told them to bin HSTs & 769s. As we’ve seen elsewhere, no need to replace when you can just run down. I expect hourly and 2 hour service frequency to be the norm on many routes across GWR. Whether people are travelling now or not is no longer relevant, it’s now all about reductions not growth.

Whether the 769s worked reliably or not or we’re about to be reliable is irrelevant. Expect most of them to go in the Newport shredder.

 

[fgwrich]

They were running pretty reliably on the M/W/F training runs with three changeovers required each way that proved the system. Reality is this is an easy option for saving money unfortunately and GWR have to do what they can to protect the wider network.

But pretty reliably isn’t full reliability. And that’s only been the odd few units out of the 19 units ordered (the fact most haven’t completed their fault free running before storage in Long Marston isn’t a good sign either).

Luckily, as said elsewhere, binning off the 769s makes a significant dent in the savings GWR has been told it has to make, so at the risk of further cutbacks, I would rather see these binned off than GWR struggling to run a service with them on heavily cutback routes. Yes, decarbonisation still has to be a priority, but hopefully the focus can now be switched to quick electrification wins and potentially battery power instead.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But pretty reliably isn’t full reliability. And that’s only been the odd few units out of the 19 units ordered (the fact most haven’t completed their fault free running before storage in Long Marston isn’t a good sign either).

Luckily, as said elsewhere, binning off the 769s makes a significant dent in the savings GWR has been told it has to make, so at the risk of further cutbacks, I would rather see these binned off than GWR struggling to run a service with them on heavily cutback routes. Yes, decarbonisation still has to be a priority, but hopefully the focus can now be switched to quick electrification wins and potentially battery power instead.

As i said given the current pressures being exerted on operators to save costs i acknowledge that saving money on a non working unit although if they hadn't achieved fault free running why were they paying leasing charges anyhow?

Of course in a sensible world the DfT would have bought 100's of 755 units and dispersed them out to operators working part electrified routes.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

GWR have to do what they’re told, the DfT have told them to bin HSTs & 769s. As we’ve seen elsewhere, no need to replace when you can just run down. I expect hourly and 2 hour service frequency to be the norm on many routes across GWR. Whether people are travelling now or not is no longer relevant, it’s now all about reductions not growth.

The run down to replace HSTs has already happened, the 80x are coming from the Bristol/South Wales super fasts which have been binned along with the Bedwyn services which have been replaced by the Newbury shuttles. The phased rundown of HSTs is due awaiting crew training to be complete.

For 769s as they hadn’t actually entered service there is little that needs to be done to replace them.

So the cuts to allow for this cascade has already happened. Whether other cuts are needed to hit budgets are another thing but not for these plans.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The run down to replace HSTs has already happened, the 80x are coming from the Bristol/South Wales super fasts which have been binned along with the Bedwyn services which have been replaced by the Newbury shuttles. The phased rundown of HSTs is due awaiting crew training to be complete.

For 769s as they hadn’t actually entered service there is little that needs to be done to replace them.

So the cuts to allow for this cascade has already happened. Whether other cuts are needed to hit budgets are another thing but not for these plans.

What services were the Thames Valley 165s actually going to do in the West, seeing as there weren't plans to axe the 150s?

 

[cactustwirly]

What services were the Thames Valley 165s actually going to do in the West, seeing as there weren't plans to axe the 150s?

Half hourly extras to Gloucester and Westbury I believe?

 

[Parallel]

What services were the Thames Valley 165s actually going to do in the West, seeing as there weren't plans to axe the 150s?

I think some of them were going to be used for MetroWest - increased services on some routes around Bristol.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Half hourly extras to Gloucester and Westbury I believe?

In addition to the current 2tph between Bristol and Westbury?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

In addition to the current 2tph between Bristol and Westbury?

Yes that phase of metro west was to double the service at Keynsham and Oldfield Park without slowing down the Cardiff to Portsmouth services. Originally there was a proposal to have a turnback facility at Bathampton Jn but this got dropped instead the extra services running through to Westbury to save the money building the turnback and provide some additional relief capacity to the Portsmouth services.

Some of these services already run in the peaks.

 

[heathrowrail]

GWR have to do what they’re told, the DfT have told them to bin HSTs & 769s. As we’ve seen elsewhere, no need to replace when you can just run down. I expect hourly and 2 hour service frequency to be the norm on many routes across GWR. Whether people are travelling now or not is no longer relevant, it’s now all about reductions not growth.

And then in 2 or 3 years time we will be back to 2008-2014 style rammed trains, not enough stock everyone complaining and the government going "sorry guv nothing to do with me"

 

[Snow1964]

And then in 2 or 3 years time we will be back to 2008-2014 style rammed trains, not enough stock everyone complaining and the government going "sorry guv nothing to do with me"

Actually rammed trains is already happening on the Filton-Bristol-Bath-Trowbridge section.
Attaching photo taken near Bath Spa to show how rammed already are (this was a Portsmouth-Cardiff train and yes people have climbed on the luggage stacks as aisles were full)

And not having the 165s from Thames Valley and North Downs means there is no short term solution to rammed trains. I sometimes wonder if DfT realises how busy Wessex services are, but as they say a photo is worth 1000 words, so hope mods don’t mind posting an example.

 

[irish_rail]

DfT won't be happy until GWR falls into line with TPE and Avanti in terms of appalling service. I get that savings need to be made, but why make them on the routes that ARE still busy and flourishing?

 

[JonathanH]

I get that savings need to be made, but why make them on the routes that ARE still busy and flourishing?

In the GWR case, neither the removal of HSTs, nor 769s, appears to be leading to a reduction in the number of services run.

 

[irish_rail]

In the GWR case, neither the removal of HSTs, nor 769s, appears to be leading to a reduction in the number of services run.

But will inevitably lead to short forms and cancellations (when the HSTs are fully stood down). It certainly feels a race to the bottom in many ways.

 

[Ashley Hill]

In the GWR case, neither the removal of HSTs, nor 769s, appears to be leading to a reduction in the number of services run.

No but it will lead to the reduction of the quality of service.

 

[bramling]

In the GWR case, neither the removal of HSTs, nor 769s, appears to be leading to a reduction in the number of services run.

That’s a matter for debate. It may, just about, mean things don’t have to be reduced beyond what’s provided now (albeit the Devon Metro seems to suffer very regularly from short forms), however it will certainly represent a reduction from pre-Covid aspirations.

This might not be an issue for the Bristol fasts, but it seems like it might well be in the case of the services the 165s were originally planned to work, where the general view seems to be that loadings are holding up well.

 

[Irascible]

That’s a matter for debate. It may, just about, mean things don’t have to be reduced beyond what’s provided now (albeit the Devon Metro seems to suffer very regularly from short forms), however it will certainly represent a reduction from pre-Covid aspirations.

Overcrowding on Devon locals has been a problem for how many years now? maybe we should be looking more at SWR to try and find a fix, given GWR keeps trying but seems to be repeatedly being tripped up.

 

[markglos]

Does anyone know what 769/9`s are where at the moment. I thinking of going out for them before they go.

 

[Razorblades]

Scroll back, see post 2459 et al.

 

[fgwrich]

Actually rammed trains is already happening on the Filton-Bristol-Bath-Trowbridge section.
Attaching photo taken near Bath Spa to show how rammed already are (this was a Portsmouth-Cardiff train and yes people have climbed on the luggage stacks as aisles were full)

And not having the 165s from Thames Valley and North Downs means there is no short term solution to rammed trains. I sometimes wonder if DfT realises how busy Wessex services are, but as they say a photo is worth 1000 words, so hope mods don’t mind posting an example.

It's worse than that, stretching back to Warminster / Westbury. It hasn't helped that the SWR Bristol service along this section has been withdrawn which certainly helped to soak up the passenger numbers a little - it was of course sacrificed as it was considered a 'rival service' to GWRs, as well as being off SWRs core patch but was set to give up a path to GWR which seems unlikely to happen now. And many passengers will still crowd into the slightly faster Cardiff bound services over the usually 2 car 165 operated stopper services, despite operating not too far behind them.

As an aside, while I'm pleased the MetroWest Bath extensions are now envisaged to run to Westbury, I'm surprised bringing Chippenham's disused platform back into use and used as a turn back hasn't also been considered.

 

[800 Driver]

In the GWR case, neither the removal of HSTs, nor 769s, appears to be leading to a reduction in the number of services run.

I don't see any way that it won't lead to a reduction in services AND formations. Expect the fewer trains thad do run after May to be much busier

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

GWR have to do what they’re told, the DfT have told them to bin HSTs & 769s. As we’ve seen elsewhere, no need to replace when you can just run down. I expect hourly and 2 hour service frequency to be the norm on many routes across GWR. Whether people are travelling now or not is no longer relevant, it’s now all about reductions not growth.

Whether the 769s worked reliably or not or we’re about to be reliable is irrelevant. Expect most of them to go in the Newport shredder.

GWR would have given DfT the options about the best balance between service provision and costs for them to take decisions against

 

[Benjwri]

As an aside, while I'm pleased the MetroWest Bath extensions are now envisaged to run to Westbury

Unfortunately the MetroWest scheme in itself seems rather at risk, I wouldn't bet on the increased frequencies materialising any time soon, since the trains for this should've come from the turbo cascade from Reading, which won't happen with the death of the 769s.

 

[RPI]

Overcrowding on Devon locals has been a problem for how many years now? maybe we should be looking more at SWR to try and find a fix, given GWR keeps trying but seems to be repeatedly being tripped up.

SWR's service on the West of England line of late has been absolutely diabolical, its become a local joke amongst the passengers, when the landslip happened at Honiton and SWR threw the towel in, GWR still ran the one train a day and an additional return working, one passenger from Feniton asked me if GWR were taking over the route, his exact words were "Even you lot are f**king better than that shower" (referring to SWR), to which I chuckled and replied that I'm sure there was a back handed compliment in that statement somewhere!

 

[Benjwri]

I'm surprised bringing Chippenham's disused platform back into use and used as a turn back hasn't also been considered.

The current pathing is set up so the fast Bristol to London services almost catch up with the stopper in front by Bathampton Junction. Any extension to Chippenham would mean fast services caught up and therefore get slowed down. I would also argue the benefits are minimal, there is already a half hourly Bath-Chippenham service, and from what I've seen travelling on it, passenger numbers are that high. Trains to Chippenham don't add any further connectivity beyond that offered by extra Westbury trains.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Unfortunately the MetroWest scheme in itself seems rather at risk, I wouldn't bet on the increased frequencies materialising any time soon, since the trains for this should've come from the turbo cascade from Reading, which won't happen with the death of the 769s.

If and when Portishead reopens where will the additional units come from to operate it?