Fly Atlantic - New Airline to launch TransAtlantic flights from Belfast

[Iskra]

Well, this seems ambitious. Not only are they aiming for Transatlantic flights, but 35 other destinations too. Is this just wibble or can anyone see it working? It seems like trying to compete with the Republics' Aer Lingus for competitions sake- I was recently on one of their TransAtlantics and got an entire row to myself... I can see that if you are from Northern Ireland, travelling to Dublin, London or Manchester to go TransAtlantic could be a minor irritation, but is there enough demand for Belfast to work?

Fly Atlantic to offer transatlantic flights at Belfast International Airport

Fly Atlantic says it will initially employ 50 people at Belfast International Airport and 250 crew.

www.bbc.co.uk

Fly Atlantic plans to launch a new transatlantic airline at Belfast International Airport in summer 2024.

It aims to fly to the US and Canada, British and European destinations and, once fully operational, plans to fly to 35 destinations.
This initial announcement is the first stage in its plans; the next steps will be securing aircraft and a licence.
Initially, the airline says it will employ 50 people at Belfast International Airport and 250 crew.
It plans to create 1,000 jobs in the first five years within the airline and indirectly create thousands more in tourism and support sectors.
The new airline says it will create a major hub linking Europe with North American destinations to supplement local passenger numbers.
It will initially operate six aircraft at its Antrim base, growing to a fleet of 18 by 2028.
Fly Atlantic's chief executive Andrew Pyne said: "The lack of direct transatlantic air services has clearly been an impediment to Northern Ireland's economic and tourism development, which we now intend to remove.
"We already have offices at the airport and will now be building out the infrastructure to support the airline's launch."

Managing director of Belfast International Airport Graham Keddie welcomed the announcement by Fly Atlantic.
"We look forward to them bringing this project to fruition as it would have very real economic benefits for Northern Ireland's economy and would further enhance our international connectivity," he said.
The airline has received support from Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council.
Mayor Alderman Stephen Ross said improving connectivity was a "key part of our economic development strategy and we are delighted that Fly Atlantic has selected Belfast International Airport to become a hub, offering direct flights to North America, UK and Europe".

 

[Huntergreed]

Seems ambitious indeed.

I note they’re going for narrowbodies, not sure I’d like to spend 6-7 hours in a narrow body across the Atlantic (especially if it’s a 737 max!)

 

[Snow1964]

Seems ambitious indeed.

I note they’re going for narrowbodies, not sure I’d like to spend 6-7 hours in a narrow body across the Atlantic (especially if it’s a 737 max!)

I don’t think anyone would like it in cramped economy.

However if they are like the new Korean seats on A321neo or on a 737 max, 63 inch seat pitch, 19 inch wide seats, and 17 inch TVs would you still object

Korean Air Accidentally Leaks Details Of Stunning Airbus A321neo Cabins

Korean Air's A321neo interior reveals a new color scheme.

simpleflying.com

 

[Iskra]

I did it on an A32XNeo with Aer Lingus, and while I was lucky to get the row to myself, I think it would have been manageable had others have been sat there. To JFK on a day flight isn't too far and you aren’t likely to be trying to sleep. So, if you get a decent price as I did it’s certainly worth doing compared to paying three times the price for an economy seat on a widebody on the same route. Would I want to do it on a red-eye flight though? Probably not.

 

[Ediswan]

However if they are like the new Korean seats on A321neo or on a 737 max, 63 inch seat pitch, 19 inch wide seats, and 17 inch TVs would you still object

Exactly. Its not the size of the tube that matters, its the size of the seat. All but the largest business jets have a narrower fuselage than a B737 or A320, but nobody suggests their seats are uncomfortable.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Seems ambitious indeed.

I note they’re going for narrowbodies, not sure I’d like to spend 6-7 hours in a narrow body across the Atlantic (especially if it’s a 737 max!)

Air Canada are already using the MAX on the Halifax to Heathrow route...

 

[AlterEgo]

Air Canada are already using the MAX on the Halifax to Heathrow route...

Very common to see narrow bodies across the Atlantic. United uses the 757 on several routes. JetBlue has A321s, TAP, SAS (they have the longest A321 route in the world!). Air Canada have the MAX, WestJet, etc.

Aer Lingus, Air Transat, La Compagnie. All using narrow bodies.

 

[ABB125]

SAS (they have the longest A321 route in the world!).

What route is it? I'm guessing something like Stockholm to eastern USA?

 

[AlterEgo]

What route is it? I'm guessing something like Stockholm to eastern USA?

Copenhagen to Washington.

 

[camperdown9]

Personal opinion but not sure it will happen. Transatlantic services from Belfast have an issue and that is that Dublin with lots of choices of destinations is just 100 miles down the road. Google maps suggest that it takes 1 hr 40 to drive that, well thats what it take me to drive from Canterbury to Heathrow.

 

[Wynd]

Nice idea, but surely one of the major headwinds is that Boeing and Airbus' order books are full out to nearly 2030...so what machines do they intend to use?

 

[nlogax]

Nothing amiss with narrowbodies for those east coast routes when they’re configured favourably for long-ish stints. Pre-clearance via Dublin has to be a competing factor though.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Nice idea, but surely one of the major headwinds is that Boeing and Airbus' order books are full out to nearly 2030...so what machines do they intend to use?

Most of the big leasing companies will always have something available with a few months notice.

 

[Wynd]

Most of the big leasing companies will always have something available with a few months notice.

Good point! But, will they have 321xlr or similar?

 

[Chester1]

Nothing amiss with narrowbodies for those east coast routes when they’re configured favourably for long-ish stints. Pre-clearance via Dublin has to be a competing factor though.

Pre clearance at Dublin tends to result in higher prices than comparable airports. The cost of running facilities is paid for by the airlines. Its why Manchester doesn't have pre clearance many years after US government offered it. I suspect the bigger factor is that the catchment area of Belfast International is smaller than Dublin.

Good point! But, will they have 321xlr or similar?

A 737 can fly to the east coast of US from Ireland (TUI uses them on Florida services for instance).

 

[Ted633]

Good point! But, will they have 321xlr or similar?

Possibly not, but I'm sure they'll be able to get hold of some 757's if they are really desperate!

 

[WizCastro197]

Possibly not, but I'm sure they'll be able to get hold of some 757's if they are really desperate!

From where will they get 757s from?

 

[Elwyn]

Belfast has had services to New York and latterly to Newark, in the past. Last operator was United who gave up a few years back. They could generally fill the flights in the summer months but struggled in the winter, and in latter years suspended flights between November and February. I don’t think there’s really the traffic for an all year round operation.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

From where will they get 757s from?

There's four immediately available, although two of those are freighters.

 

[jagardner1984]

Wasn't the whole logic of Are Lingus for example putting A321neo on the east coast routes that the fuel per passenger km was significantly reduced from an A330 or other traditional fleet option they use ?

Would seem if the finances are marginal then an old 757 with less capacity and greater fuel costs per passenger may be tricky ...

That said, travelling on a full A321 was a really horrible experience, toilet queues vs catering vs single aisle vs single galley .... it all felt a very very cramped and unpleasant cabin, with crew clearly frustrated with the setup.

 

[Lost property]

The promotional blurb seems to follow a standard format...extensive range of destinations, the promise of "xxxx" jobs being generated, the "boost to the economy " without too much detail...and an AOC would prove useful here.

Forget new builds, the leasing companies will be capable of supplying a selection of types, which may involve a compromise, along with which many support services will be contracted out. Crews, CC and Flight deck, are relatively easy to recruit, certainly the former, but engineering is a different matter. They may have a core of their own, but, down route and base maintenance will be contracted out to third party providers, which is where the "fun" can begin...and escalating costs incurred as a result. Laker at least already had a well established engineering division to support his "Skytrain " operation.

I don't see this taking off, no pun intended, purely because of the economic climate, the location of Dublin, and the fact the market as they project it, isn't really there. There may well be some short term success, but, longevity is unlikely.

It's been tried before, notably from GLA, however, whilst one did start, another was a complete scam which resulted in prosecutions and convictions....and please note, I am NOT suggesting or implying this proposed operation is in anyway a scam. The scam emerged in their application forms....and it wasn't very subtle, in fact, it stood out straight away.

 

[Airline Man]

The promotional blurb seems to follow a standard format...extensive range of destinations, the promise of "xxxx" jobs being generated, the "boost to the economy " without too much detail...and an AOC would prove useful here.

Forget new builds, the leasing companies will be capable of supplying a selection of types, which may involve a compromise, along with which many support services will be contracted out. Crews, CC and Flight deck, are relatively easy to recruit, certainly the former, but engineering is a different matter. They may have a core of their own, but, down route and base maintenance will be contracted out to third party providers, which is where the "fun" can begin...and escalating costs incurred as a result. Laker at least already had a well established engineering division to support his "Skytrain " operation.

I don't see this taking off, no pun intended, purely because of the economic climate, the location of Dublin, and the fact the market as they project it, isn't really there. There may well be some short term success, but, longevity is unlikely.

It's been tried before, notably from GLA, however, whilst one did start, another was a complete scam which resulted in prosecutions and convictions....and please note, I am NOT suggesting or implying this proposed operation is in anyway a scam. The scam emerged in their application forms....and it wasn't very subtle, in fact, it stood out straight away.

What airline was this that was a 'scam'?

 

[Lost property]

What airline was this that was a 'scam'?

I can't remember the name, but, I do remember the details.

There was a full page ad in "Flight", once only, ostensibly looking for Crew / engineers for a start up 757 operation based at GLA. After the usual crew room discussion, I responded and got a reply.

This was unusually long in that it contained a lot of information about training costs. to be incurred by applicants...this was not the equivalent of "pay to fly " or a training bond, it was upfront finance from applicants for all costs incurred.

Then came the application form which, in one sense, was a bit more subtle. This being, it started in the usual way with the usual questions, but, then came the "whoa !" bit, because by the time this section appeared people would / could, easily be into "form filling mode " and simply carry on...without reading the questions.

These questions, as I recall, set the alarm bells ringing. Which airports do you have security clearance for ?...What was your service number if ex military and, What was your F1250 number if ex RAF ?...now nobody asks those questions without having a motive as the information isn't relevant to employment. Hence, after another crew room discussion, we trotted off to see Special Branch who were very interested, politely thanked us, and said in all probability we wouldn't hear any more from them....which duly happened.

The case didn't make headlines, but, I do recall it made one of the London Crown Courts.

 

[edwin_m]

Related to, or something similar to, the recent story about the Chinese hiring Western ex-forces pilots in an alleged attempt to understand their tactics?

 

[Lost property]

Related to, or something similar to, the recent story about the Chinese hiring Western ex-forces pilots in an alleged attempt to understand their tactics?

No, totally different in one sense in that they were trying to extract money from applicants, with a vague reassurance of being reimbursed "later"...however, I take your valid point about security implications given the questions asked and, whilst I have no knowledge of the investigation, it would be reasonable to assume these would have attracted the attention of SB

 

[Airline Man]

I can't remember the name, but, I do remember the details.

There was a full page ad in "Flight", once only, ostensibly looking for Crew / engineers for a start up 757 operation based at GLA. After the usual crew room discussion, I responded and got a reply.

This was unusually long in that it contained a lot of information about training costs. to be incurred by applicants...this was not the equivalent of "pay to fly " or a training bond, it was upfront finance from applicants for all costs incurred.

Then came the application form which, in one sense, was a bit more subtle. This being, it started in the usual way with the usual questions, but, then came the "whoa !" bit, because by the time this section appeared people would / could, easily be into "form filling mode " and simply carry on...without reading the questions.

These questions, as I recall, set the alarm bells ringing. Which airports do you have security clearance for ?...What was your service number if ex military and, What was your F1250 number if ex RAF ?...now nobody asks those questions without having a motive as the information isn't relevant to employment. Hence, after another crew room discussion, we trotted off to see Special Branch who were very interested, politely thanked us, and said in all probability we wouldn't hear any more from them....which duly happened.

The case didn't make headlines, but, I do recall it made one of the London Crown Courts.

Thanks. No wonder I hadn't heard of the airline!

 

[jagardner1984]

Thanks. No wonder I hadn't heard of the airline!

All very interesting - and GLA an interesting comparison in that as of today, there isn't, for example, demand for even a direct flight to any New York airport - presumably as the connections via Heathrow, Gatwick, Schipol or Dublin, or indeed proximity to Edinburgh, makes the economics not workable.

To Give an idea of the relative scale of the airports, in the last full pre Covid year, Belfast 6.3m Passengers, Glasgow 8.8m Passengers.