How do you claim under delay-repay when the tickets were swallowed up by the gate line machine?

[45669]

I'm trying to claim from GWR because the train we went to catch was cancelled. When we did finally get to our destination, the outward part of our tickets were swallowed up by the gate line machine as we needed to use them to open the gates to get off the platform.

However, GWR are now saying that because I cannot produce the tickets as evidence of travel, they cannot consider my claim. She said I should have kept them, but I am not aware of any way of asking the gate line machine to return the tickets after it has opened the gates. I sent them a scan of the credit card receipts which clearly show the date, location and time of purchase but, apparently, this isn't good enough. I still have the return half of the tickets though, as our local station is unmanned and therefore no gate line. Would these be suitable evidence that we travelled that day?

I might add that when I looked at RealTime Trains, I noticed that several other trains were also cancelled that day!

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It may be worth drawing GWR's attention to what it says on their website at https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay. If you scroll down and open 'What proof of purchase do I need to submit?' you'll find

This will depend on your ticket.

Paper ticket
An image or scan of your paper ticket. If you no longer have your ticket, we will accept a receipt so long as we can identify the journey details, ticket type, the price you paid, and the ticket number

Of course your receipt may not contain all of this - but if you send it with the return coupon, that will provide all the information. So accompany it with a note explaining that all the information is available - and where they can find it.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm trying to claim from GWR because the train we went to catch was cancelled. When we did finally get to our destination, the outward part of our tickets were swallowed up by the gate line machine as we needed to use them to open the gates to get off the platform.

However, GWR are now saying that because I cannot produce the tickets as evidence of travel, they cannot consider my claim. She said I should have kept them, but I am not aware of any way of asking the gate line machine to return the tickets after it has opened the gates. I sent them a scan of the credit card receipts which clearly show the date, location and time of purchase but, apparently, this isn't good enough. I still have the return half of the tickets though, as our local station is unmanned and therefore no gate line. Would these be suitable evidence that we travelled that day?

I might add that when I looked at RealTime Trains, I noticed that several other trains were also cancelled that day!

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Where did you purchase the tickets from? Did you get a booking confirmation?

 

[Watershed]

The National Rail Conditions of Travel and GWR's Charter do say that you should provide your ticket, or a copy of it, when making your claim - and that you will be let through the barriers manually to allow you to keep your ticket for this purpose.

However, in a case such as this - where you are able to provide both the receipt and the return portion - clearly a pragmatic approach needs to be taken, and I don't think they can really justify refusing your claim. So you should put in an appeal, providing all the evidence that you have, and ask them to take another look. It might be worthwhile contacting them on Twitter, as this can sometimes get these sorts of issues resolved more quickly and easily.

 

[45669]

It may be worth drawing GWR's attention to what it says on their website at https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay. If you scroll down and open 'What proof of purchase do I need to submit?' you'll find


Of course your receipt may not contain all of this - but if you send it with the return coupon, that will provide all the information. So accompany it with a note explaining that all the information is available - and where they can find it.

Thanks for your reply. I have pointed out to GWR that the application form says that a scan of the receipts will suffice if the tickets are no longer available. This gives the date, time and location of purchase, the ticket numbers, price paid, etc. I have asked whether a scan of the return half of the tickets will help as I don't want to waste time scanning and uploading them if GWR won't accept them as proof.

I'm waiting to hear back from them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2022 ==

Where did you purchase the tickets from? Did you get a booking confirmation?

The tickets were bought at Farnborough North and yes, I've got the credit card receipts that the machine churns out at the same time as the tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2022 ==

The National Rail Conditions of Travel and GWR's Charter do say that you should provide your ticket, or a copy of it, when making your claim - and that you will be let through the barriers manually to allow you to keep your ticket for this purpose.

However, in a case such as this - where you are able to provide both the receipt and the return portion - clearly a pragmatic approach needs to be taken, and I don't think they can really justify refusing your claim. So you should put in an appeal, providing all the evidence that you have, and ask them to take another look. It might be worthwhile contacting them on Twitter, as this can sometimes get these sorts of issues resolved more quickly and easily.

As far as I could see, there wasn't anyone there to open the gates manually for us so that I could keep our tickets. The only member of staff that I saw was the lady cleaning the lavatories and it didn't occur to me to ask her.

I don't do twitter! I have enough trouble coping with on-line forums without getting involved with things like twitter as well!

 

[dastocks]

If I know that I will be making a claim I don't feed a ticket to a gate unless I am confident that I will get it back. Even then I will usually scan the ticket to my 'phone, just in case.

As far as I could see, there wasn't anyone there to open the gates manually for us so that I could keep our tickets.

AIUI If the gates are in operation there *has* to be a member of staff present. The staff always seem to become less visible when trains have been delayed, which may be because they are dealing with lots of people trying to exit without feeding tickets to the gates.

 

[Haywain]

AIUI If the gates are in operation there *has* to be a member of staff present.

At some stations where there is more than one gateline they may operate one in person and others remotely. In such cases there will be a means of contacting the operator by a camera/speaker system adjacent to the gateline.

 

[45669]

If I know that I will be making a claim I don't feed a ticket to a gate unless I am confident that I will get it back. Even then I will usually scan the ticket to my 'phone, just in case.


AIUI If the gates are in operation there *has* to be a member of staff present. The staff always seem to become less visible when trains have been delayed, which may be because they are dealing with lots of people trying to exit without feeding tickets to the gates.

Well, if there was someone there, I didn't see them. It's a very busy station though, and there were lots of people around the exit, so he/she might have been at the other end and hidden behind the throng.

I haven't had to claim under delay-repay for ages, so couldn't remember the process. And on that occasion the station to which I was going was unmanned, so no gateline or ticket collector. I cannot remember having to send a photo of my ticket, but if that's standard procedure, I suppose I must have done. But as I hadn't surrendered it and it was still in my pocket it wouldn't have cause the issues that have arisen this time.

Anyway, should it happen again I shall follow the advice given on here and seek out a member of staff before exiting the station. And take photos of the ticket/s as well. I did notice someone taking a photo of the train indicator display with the train showing as cancelled, so perhaps I'll do that as well. However, that shouldn't be necessary as GWR, or any other TOC, would have records of which trains ran and which trains didn't. However, just in case I needed to back up my claim, I took a screenshot of the relevant page on RealTime Trains which shows this train, and others, as cancelled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

At some stations where there is more than one gateline they may operate one in person and others remotely. In such cases there will be a means of contacting the operator by a camera/speaker system adjacent to the gateline.

I'm not aware of any other entrances/exits, but I don't know it that well so I suppose that's a possibility.

 

[penguin8967]

I’ve been in this same situation before and forgotten to keep the ticket after being delayed with GWR. To my surprise they accepted the white paper card receipt from the TVM which only had the price indicated on it. Your mileage may vary though.

 

[Haywain]

I'm not aware of any other entrances/exits, but I don't know it that well so I suppose that's a possibility.

Which station was it?

 

[45669]

I’ve been in this same situation before and forgotten to keep the ticket after being delayed with GWR. To my surprise they accepted the white paper card receipt from the TVM which only had the price indicated on it. Your mileage may vary though.

The credit card receipt looks just like a train ticket at first glance and it gives all the details I would have thought they needed. Date, time, location, price paid, etc.

I e-mailed back pointing all this out and am awaiting their response. If I don't get anywhere, I shall take it higher. It's only a few pounds, but there's a principle at stake. Besides, I'd rather have a few pounds in my pocket than theirs!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

Which station was it?

Guildford.

 

[penguin8967]

The credit card receipt looks just like a train ticket at first glance and it gives all the details I would have thought they needed. Date, time, location, price paid, etc.

Ah, I got mine from one of the newer GWR machines on a paper receipt. Although that claim happened during the heatwave so they were accepting delay repay from pretty much anyone

 

[507020]

I am not aware of any way of asking the gate line machine to return the tickets after it has opened the gates.

Given that only an image of paper tickets is required, rather than than the actual return of tickets in the post, you can always take a picture of the ticket before it gets swallowed by the barrier and use that for your claim, if you anticipate delay repay will be applicable.

Alternatively, you can simply insist to station staff that they open the barrier with the key and return your ticket manually, as I have done on one occasion at Manchester Oxford Road!

(Although on that occasion the member of staff had grabbed the ticket out of my hand and shoved it in the barrier without giving me a chance to explain why I needed it - and it didn’t even open because it was only valid to Deansgate - the train I was on had the stop removed because it was 67 minutes late…)

 

[Runningaround]

If I know that I will be making a claim I don't feed a ticket to a gate unless I am confident that I will get it back. Even then I will usually scan the ticket to my 'phone, just in case.


AIUI If the gates are in operation there *has* to be a member of staff present. The staff always seem to become less visible when trains have been delayed, which may be because they are dealing with lots of people trying to exit without feeding tickets to the gates.

That's fine if you have the time but when you have a tight connection you don't want to be in a queue longer than necessary, looking for staff or trying to get a ticket in focus to take a picture.
There is no reason for barriers or staff to keep your tickets when you exit unless it's to deliberately put an obstacle into making a claim by keeping the evidence requested.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

There is no reason for barriers or staff to keep your tickets when you exit unless it's to deliberately put an obstacle into making a claim by keeping the evidence requested.

<Tangent - sorry>
It also stops people throwing unwanted tickets on the floor having gone through the barrier and having it given back to them
</Tangent>

 

[Watershed]

That's fine if you have the time but when you have a tight connection you don't want to be in a queue longer than necessary, looking for staff or trying to get a ticket in focus to take a picture.

Fair enough - but if you have a connection to make then surely your ticket will be returned? Unless you are referring to having split tickets, and one of your tickets' validity finishes at the station with the barriers.

Either way, surely you would know that you are likely to be able to make a claim before you get to the station, and so can take a picture on the train whilst you have time?

E-tickets also avoid this problem, although I appreciate that they're not available for all journeys, nor does everyone want to use them.

There is no reason for barriers or staff to keep your tickets when you exit unless it's to deliberately put an obstacle into making a claim by keeping the evidence requested.

The intention certainly isn't to make it harder to claim, even if that's sometimes the effect. It's more to prevent tickets from being reused, or being left to litter the station.

 

[45669]

Well, I asked for advice and that I've had a-plenty. So if it happens again I shall take some snaps of the ticket/s, but also make sure that I don't let the gateline swallow them up.

In the meantime, I shall await a reply from Amy at GWR Customer Services...

 

[Class800]

For future reference, could be useful to take a photo of ticket using your phone before putting it in the gate

 

[45669]

For future reference, could be useful to take a photo of ticket using your phone before putting it in the gate

I won't let the ticket/s near the gateline! I shall seek out a human being - even if it is the lady cleaning the lavatories.

It's a pity I didn't know any of this before though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

Ah, I got mine from one of the newer GWR machines on a paper receipt. Although that claim happened during the heatwave so they were accepting delay repay from pretty much anyone

These are the credit card receipts; as far as I can see they give all the information needed:

 

[Class800]

I won't let the ticket/s near the gateline! I shall seek out a human being - even if it is the lady cleaning the lavatories.

It's a pity I didn't know any of this before though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==



These are the credit card receipts; as far as I can see they give all the information needed:

View attachment 126215

As the ticket remains the property of the railway the staff can insist it be put in the gates, as they have on some occasions with me

 

[tspaul26]

As the ticket remains the property of the railway the staff can insist it be put in the gates, as they have on some occasions with me

This is subject to NRCOT n.33.1 whereby the passenger has the right to retain the ticket for the purposes of a delay repay claim.

 

[Ediswan]

As the ticket remains the property of the railway the staff can insist it be put in the gates, as they have on some occasions with me

It does not. That condition was removed when NRCoT replaced NRCoC.

 

[Runningaround]

Fair enough - but if you have a connection to make then surely your ticket will be returned? Unless you are referring to having split tickets, and one of your tickets' validity finishes at the station with the barriers.

Not if you need to get out the station and catch a bus for eg or your ticket finishes at that station.

Either way, surely you would know that you are likely to be able to make a claim before you get to the station, and so can take a picture on the train whilst you have time?

Why do I need to take photos of everything while trying to make connections, and having enough hands to carry luggage and rummage around for tickets all the while then finding the queue for staff that's formed due to others needing tickets to get through or are needing to keep theirs so to avoid the barrier swallowing them.
Just don't have barriers keeping tickest their is no benefit of them doing this unless of course it is to be awkward for those needing to keep it.

E-tickets also avoid this problem, although I appreciate that they're not available for all journeys, nor does everyone want to use them.


The intention certainly isn't to make it harder to claim, even if that's sometimes the effect. It's more to prevent tickets from being reused, or being left to litter the station.

Really then why don't they delete the phone ticket just after it's last usable point or keep printed QR coded tickets as well if that's the case.
And if the railways were bothered about littering they'd have enough bins on their stations.

 

[njr001]

Arriving at Cardiff Central some years ago I wanted to retain my ticket for an expenses claim. No staff were present on the gateline so I had no option but to insert ticket, I then found a member of staff who tried to find ticket without success, I was then given all the tickets from the gate. Found an interesting ticket which had been endorsed to allow passenger to travel on a later train as the booked train was crowded and the passenger was carrying a surfboard

 

[tetartoid]

If it helps, I have just done a successful delay repay on the return leg of an Avanti ticket where I only had the outbound portion of the ticket. I asked customer services before making the claim and they said it should be fine as the outbound and return portions have the same ticket number. I put the claim through and it has been approved. I didn't need to provide a receipt or anything extra.

 

[londonbridge]

This is subject to NRCOT n.33.1 whereby the passenger has the right to retain the ticket for the purposes of a delay repay claim.

Exactly, for my last delay repay claim, at my destination I showed my ticket to the gate line attendant and said “I need to hold on to my ticket to claim delay repay”. He looked at it then opened the gate and let me out without saying anything.

 

[45669]

I'm pleased to report that following a further exchange of e-mails with GWR Customer Services, they have finally accepted my delay-repay claim and "the cheque's in the post". But what a palaver for £4.40!

So thanks for the advice and comments from the good folks on this forum; if it happens again I shall make sure that, come hell or high water, I shall hang on to all tickets and credit card receipts.

 

[AdamWW]

I'm pleased to report that following a further exchange of e-mails with GWR Customer Services, they have finally accepted my delay-repay claim and "the cheque's in the post". But what a palaver for £4.40!

I'm glad that it was resolved in the end.

I've seen stations with signs saying that all tickets will be retained and that if you want to make a delay claim you should have asked for a receipt when you bought the ticket.

Since this isn't the usual policy, and you don't see the signs until well after you've bought the ticket, this doesn't seem particularly fair.

 

[45669]

I'm glad that it was resolved in the end.

I've seen stations with signs saying that all tickets will be retained and that if you want to make a delay claim you should have asked for a receipt when you bought the ticket.

Since this isn't the usual policy, and you don't see the signs until well after you've bought the ticket, this doesn't seem particularly fair.

When buying from a machine it usually gives credit card receipts. But they were reluctant to accept these as proof of purchase, even though they clearly showed the date, time and place of purchase! When I buy at the ticket window, I'm sure that I usually get offered a receipt.

 

[Haywain]

I've seen stations with signs saying that all tickets will be retained and that if you want to make a delay claim you should have asked for a receipt when you bought the ticket.

Where have you seen these signs? And were they official branded signs or locally cobbled together nonsense?