Shouldn't be able to kick the windows out on the new trains. They are not fitted the same way as the existing Metros for just that reason.I think we may be onto something here. If kids kick the windows out, then we board them up instead of replacing them
Good to see a unit running under battery, it’s going to be good to finally get one over here so we can start properly testing it on the network.
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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler
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DanNCL
Established Member
27th is the date I’ve heard for arrival of 555003. Not sure if that’s arrival on Metro infrastructure or just arrival in the UK.
Also seen reported that 555002 has been graffitied at Arth-Goldau.
Also seen reported that 555002 has been graffitied at Arth-Goldau.
Not even in the UK yet and they’ve already been given the North East treatment. Where did you hear of this?
I’ve seen pictures of it on some Facebook and Instagram pages. One of the insta pages that posts a lot of local graffiti posted it and the comments were full of the local taggers arguing over the fact that it “doesn’t count till it’s on British soil”. This is in reference to the fact that there is a “bounty” to be claimed for the first person/crew to graffiti it. I’ve heard it’s about £5k.
DanNCL
Established Member
£5k that’s mad!
The amount of info that’s online these days, it wouldn’t surprise me if some of these ‘artists’ tracked down 555003 within hours of it leaving Dollands Moor. I would have said they’d tag it there if it wasn’t for the level of security that place has!
Killingworth
Established Member
Most of the members of this forum would never contemplate spray painting art work on trains or lineside structures. Sadly a large number of our fellow citizens do and the art of some of it is very good. Much isn't. The climbing ability of many who do this is also impressive. Misguided and often criminal damage but almost legitimised by the way Banksy and others get praised. Make a Google search for 'graffiti paint' and there are very many people making a lot of money out of graffiti.
D821
Member
The same thing happened to one of the 777 units, IIRC.
I do hope the livery on these trains has got graffiti removal protection on them so we don't see the evidence of graffiti removal like we do on the current fleet with the smudges and the such like.
I believe it does. The current fleet utilises a sacrificial layer so basically the train paint comes off with the graffiti. This leaves yellowish patches where body filler has been used in the last and painted over. I guess the idea is to repaint it straight away but this often is easier said than done.
185143
Established Member
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Not sure if this is really the right thread for this, but didn't feel it warranted a new thread.
There's three of the current fleet I've not travelled on, 4001, 4002 and 4050. Are they still operational? I suspect one or both of 4001 and 4002 at least no longer are.
There's three of the current fleet I've not travelled on, 4001, 4002 and 4050. Are they still operational? I suspect one or both of 4001 and 4002 at least no longer are.
185143
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Much appreciated.
Had one winner so far today, and know where another pair are, so festering in 'Spoons waiting for them to come back from Monkseaton.
Need to keep an eye out for 4050 though.
DanNCL
Established Member
To my knowledge the only long term stopped units are 4001, 4055 and 4062. Unlikely that any of the three will run in revenue service again.
4001 last carried passengers in either late 2020 or early 2021. It's currently a parts donor - it will at some point be restored but that might only be a cosmetic restoration for Tyne & Wear Museums rather than a return to operational condition. 4002 carried passengers in 2022 - my last sighting of it in passenger service was in April. 4002 has always been one of the rarer units in passenger service, even before the other units went through the Wabtec refurbishment it didn't run in service that often.
4040 and 4083 are still operational. They were working a driver training diagram on the Airport branch on Monday.
On the subject of the 555s, Nexus posted a photo on Twitter of 555002 alongside one of the Rigi Bahn's own EMUs at Arth-Goldau: https://twitter.com/My_Metro/status/1614948144030031872?s=20&t=gtX5XS75PWLlgAN9u4fAag
4001 last carried passengers in either late 2020 or early 2021. It's currently a parts donor - it will at some point be restored but that might only be a cosmetic restoration for Tyne & Wear Museums rather than a return to operational condition. 4002 carried passengers in 2022 - my last sighting of it in passenger service was in April. 4002 has always been one of the rarer units in passenger service, even before the other units went through the Wabtec refurbishment it didn't run in service that often.
4040 and 4083 are still operational. They were working a driver training diagram on the Airport branch on Monday.
On the subject of the 555s, Nexus posted a photo on Twitter of 555002 alongside one of the Rigi Bahn's own EMUs at Arth-Goldau: https://twitter.com/My_Metro/status/1614948144030031872?s=20&t=gtX5XS75PWLlgAN9u4fAag
The new Stadler Metro train has been photographed at one of the world’s most scenic railways – the Rigi Bahn in Switzerland ahead of its move to a test track in Czech Republic. #NewTrains
185143
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They were driver training today too, before doing one of the Pelaw-Monkseaton peak diagrams.
I got them from Pelaw-Central Station.
I do wonder what the folk who made 4001/4002 "compliant" think seeing them both out of use long term. 4002 even had door sounders fitted onto it but has been out of service for months again, yet again it seems a case of money being spent that is perhaps not justified.
Also what is the reasoning behind 4040/83 only doing the peak runs? Apart from the lack of door lights, surely they are fully compliant?
Also what is the reasoning behind 4040/83 only doing the peak runs? Apart from the lack of door lights, surely they are fully compliant?
Think the issues go beyond compliance. They generally aren’t popular to drive for starters and more fault prone despite modifications, these two of course also being the stars of these two photos which both caused lasting damage I’m told. Hence referb not being viable. Although there’s depot lad on here somewhere who can probably shed more light on it than me.
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Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Which was the one coupled to 4040 in that first picture?
Good question. Quickly checked and it was car 90, which did get refurbished, so maybe came out of it unscathed, or throws my theory out the window lol.
Why aren't they popular to drive? Do they drive differently from the others for some reason?
I was told that 80 did drive strangely due to the warped chassis from the crash, although I can’t say I’ve ever noticed.
The cabs haven’t been updated so there are some issues around comfort and lighting etc, and they never had a lip fitted in the floor under the internal cab door meaning urine from countless weekend revellers has flowed under and soaked into the floor under the driving seat leaving a smell. (The lip was fitted in the Wabtec refurbishments for this very reason)
They also tend to get a lot of door faults and other things going wrong.
Oh and until very recently they were a pain to drive because you had an extra button to press before closing the doors and probably the worst part was without the automated station announcements you had to make a PA at each station.
Not great to drive if you didn't like your picture taken either.
bramling
Veteran Member
I went on 4002 in May 2022, it was paired with 4083 and as usual was working one of the peak shorts. At some point 4002 was replaced in the formation with 4040.
Certainly 4002 hasn’t worked much over the last decade or so. I was quite pleased to catch it during one of its rare periods of action.
Must admit it’s always been a pleasure to ride on the four units. The “normal” passengers don’t ever seem fussed, and it really gives the look and feel of the 70s / 80s, albeit the compliance mods watered this down a little. I’ll be up in Newcastle in the spring and hope they will still be going then.
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To be fair, going by twitter, it seems all the metrocars are particularly fault prone! For this reason I really do hope these new trains are going to be as reliable as Nexus are hoping they will be.
At least since 2015, 4002 has not been in service all that much. Was out of service for 2 years between 2015 and 2017 and then out of use at various different times since 2018. Speaking of interiors, I do think the lighting on the unrefurbished units are much better than the refurbished ones I'm not sure if it's the design of the diffusers or lack of cleaning of the lighting tubes themselves(looked once and recalled they looked fairly dusty) but there always seem to be a mixture of lighting which is dull and some where its much brighter(perhaps a new bulb being fitted).
DanNCL
Established Member
The decision not to refurbish 40 and 83 had nothing to do with the two incidents you mention. It was planned from early on in the refurbishment program that only 86 units would be refurbished - 01 and 02 were always going to be excluded but the other two weren’t determined until late on.
83 did come out of the Kingston Park accident in a rather poor state, worse than the rear unit of the formation (74), but it had a full repair before returning to service so no lasting damage remains to the unit. The warping that appears in some of the accident photos is likely just a trick of the light.
40 and 90 came out of the Airport flooding as bad as each other.
As far as operations go the 4 unrefurbished units have also had a lot of the modifications that the Wabtec units have. The cabs were updated at the same time as the accessibility mods were done, not sure about the water issue, but certainly the 4 units now have the window facing the front passenger seat blanked off as per the Wabtec units. Automated announcements came before the Wabtec refit, around 2010, so the 4 unrefurbished units were fitted with them. The two big differences between those and the Wabtec units were the door tone - one button for the warning tone and another one to actually shut the doors; and the wiring - the Wabtec units were completely rewired.
Both the unrefurbished and Wabtec units retain the button for the old doors closing recording and it can still be played. It’s rare to hear but does occasionally happen.
Most likely the lower reliability of the unrefurbished units is down to two factors - the infrequent usage of them will make them more prone to faults; and the older wiring in them - one does have to wonder just how bad the rest of the fleet would be now if they hadn’t been rewired…
Photography is one of the main things that drivers don’t like about the unrefurbished units, but I don’t believe drivers are able to refuse to take the units preemptively because of photography that may happen. Only grounds for drivers refusing to take them are the same as for any other unit - train defect, not being familiar with the traction or other safety issues.
bramling
Veteran Member
I’ve always thought it quite a coincidence that two units with colourful histories got omitted from the refurbishment. But it really does seem to be a coincidence - the money ran out and these two just happened to draw the short straw.
As far as photography goes, as the metrocars enter their last couple of years the drivers are likely to find photography of all the fleet will become rather more common. The metro doesn’t seem to have much of a widespread enthusiast following, though there does seem to be a small core of very loyal enthusiasts. I must admit to having a real soft spot for the system, despite living 300 miles away!
Yeah definitely coincidental bearing in mind other units have had accidents also with road vehicles albeit perhaps not as severe as the Kingston Park incident.
Anyways the magical date of the 27th grows ever closer, I'm still a little dubious the first unit will arrive then but it will be interesting when the first old train will leave for good especially if the one in one out policy is going to happen.
Anyways the magical date of the 27th grows ever closer, I'm still a little dubious the first unit will arrive then but it will be interesting when the first old train will leave for good especially if the one in one out policy is going to happen.
Zamracene749
Member
Why is photography an issue for the drivers? (Flash excepted of course) Are they sensitive about their hair or something? Do they think it steals part of their souls? Are they up to stuff they shouldn't be up to in the cab? I'm intrigued
Are they so up themselves that they think spotters are taking photos of them?Plenty of units have also been flood damaged as well over the years, in particular 4012, 4044 and 4087 during 2012 rain storms
I suspect 4040 and 4083 will be among the first to be withdrawn for the new fleet due to their incompatibility with the rest of the fleet, and the fact that they are restricted to operating short diagrams. As I say, 4001 and 4002 are already stopped and I personally cannot see them being returned.
DanNCL
Established Member
Even before 2015 you wouldn't see 4002 that often. Certainly not compared to 4001 during the same time period anyway.
The Emirates advertising liveries they both carried at the time may have had something to do with it, were Emirates still paying for the advertising liveries on those two units in 2015?
I think it's the latter, some do seem to be overly sensitive to it. I can understand not wanting to be photographed themselves, but someone taking a photograph of the train, as long as they're doing so safely and without getting in the way, shouldn't be an issue.Why is photography an issue for the drivers? (Flash excepted of course) Are they sensitive about their hair or something? Do they think it steals part of their souls? Are they up to stuff they shouldn't be up to in the cab? I'm intrigued
Almost certain that 4040 and 4083 will go first, unless one of the Wabtec units suffers an accident or major fault that makes it uneconomical to repair (like 4022).
bramling
Veteran Member
It does seem to be a Tyne & Wear thing, and I don’t fully understand it as Newcastle itself is always pretty friendly and outgoing as far as most things go.
No train driver can really moan about being in a picture (very close range excepted) as people have been taking photos of trains since steam days, so expecting not to be photographed is a bit like going swimming and expecting not to get wet. It comes with the job, and no driver should have taken on the role without knowing that.
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