ExRes
Established Member
A schedule has appeared on RTT for next Tuesday (21st) 0856 0Z54 Kings Norton OTPD to Db Cargo Fan A and B Sdgs, I can't see anything on from that yet though
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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler
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A schedule has appeared on RTT for next Tuesday (21st) 0856 0Z54 Kings Norton OTPD to Db Cargo Fan A and B Sdgs, I can't see anything on from that yet though
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RailUK Forums
The Laziest
Member
I use the Metro on a daily basis to get to work and the lack of short peaks is noticeable, especially in the morning. I was hoping they would be back after the 10th but so far all I see is train to South Shields and South Hylton, no shorts to Pelaw. It is frustrating. Customers are constantly given information that then changes, causing inconveniences. It is starting to annoy me a lot.
The new trains were supposed to get to the North East in December 2022. We are now in February and there is still no sight of them - it is ridiculous! When they first cancelled the delivery of the first train they advised that it was due to December being a busy period. Am I missing something? December is always busy? How could they not have seen it coming?
Call me cynical, but I call bull. Especially since no delivery has been completed yet.
The system is so very in need of these new trains and given that everything so far has been delayed by nearly two months, it is likely that the date the class 555 enter passenger service will also be pushed back.
The situation is disheartening to say the least.
The new trains were supposed to get to the North East in December 2022. We are now in February and there is still no sight of them - it is ridiculous! When they first cancelled the delivery of the first train they advised that it was due to December being a busy period. Am I missing something? December is always busy? How could they not have seen it coming?
Call me cynical, but I call bull. Especially since no delivery has been completed yet.
The system is so very in need of these new trains and given that everything so far has been delayed by nearly two months, it is likely that the date the class 555 enter passenger service will also be pushed back.
The situation is disheartening to say the least.
DanNCL
Established Member
Even just one extra diagram running will be noticed by passengers. Might not make much of a difference to those in the depot who still have a mountain of broken units stopped but passengers will notice.
Paths also in for Belmont - Tyne Yard on the night of the 22nd and for Tyne Yard - Pelaw on the night of the 23rd. Nothing yet for Dollands Moor - Wembley or Wembley - Belmont.
Realtime Trains | 6Q56 0138 Belmont Down Yard to Tyne S.S. | 23/02/2023
Real-time train running information for 6Q56 0138 departure from Belmont Down Yard to Tyne S.S. on 23/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 6Q57 0012 Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops | 24/02/2023
Real-time train running information for 6Q57 0012 departure from Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops on 24/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
The original arrival date was 27th January and this was attempted - the train left the Stadler site in St Margrethen for the channel tunnel, but didn’t make it very far (still within Switzerland) before turning back to St Margrethen with brake issues.
Entry into service is always just an estimate. 8 drivers are in the Czech Republic as part of the testing process, the delay to delivery to Gosforth hasn’t delayed this. Once the first train arrives in the North East it’ll have to be extensively tested on the full metro network, complete fault free running, and then complete driver training. The latter hopefully won’t take as long as it did with the old fleet as drivers are doing a lot of training on a simulator. December still seems like a realistic timeframe for passenger service, but that’ll all depend on how well testing goes. The extensive testing and training only needs to be done once, for the majority of the new fleet they’ll arrive, complete fault free running then enter service.
Consider yourself lucky. South West Trains (and its predecessor) ordered new trains to be in service in 2020, but are still not in service
.New trains are not like buying a new car from a showroom - they need to be extensively tested and proven not to break down. New trains are often bespoke, but based on a 'catalogue' design. Being bespoke means that all sorts of teething problems may emerge when they start testing them.
The Laziest
Member
I really admire your positivity, but as dates have been pushed back a few times as I mentioned in my original message, it is hard to believe they will keep to any dates they will throw at us over the coming months.Even just one extra diagram running will be noticed by passengers. Might not make much of a difference to those in the depot who still have a mountain of broken units stopped but passengers will notice.
Paths also in for Belmont - Tyne Yard on the night of the 22nd and for Tyne Yard - Pelaw on the night of the 23rd. Nothing yet for Dollands Moor - Wembley or Wembley - Belmont.
Realtime Trains | 6Q56 0138 Belmont Down Yard to Tyne S.S. | 23/02/2023
Real-time train running information for 6Q56 0138 departure from Belmont Down Yard to Tyne S.S. on 23/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.Realtime Trains | 6Q57 0012 Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops | 24/02/2023
Real-time train running information for 6Q57 0012 departure from Tyne S.S. to Pelaw Goods Loops on 24/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
The original arrival date was 27th January and this was attempted - the train left the Stadler site in St Margrethen for the channel tunnel, but didn’t make it very far (still within Switzerland) before turning back to St Margrethen with brake issues.
Entry into service is always just an estimate. 8 drivers are in the Czech Republic as part of the testing process, the delay to delivery to Gosforth hasn’t delayed this. Once the first train arrives in the North East it’ll have to be extensively tested on the full metro network, complete fault free running, and then complete driver training. The latter hopefully won’t take as long as it did with the old fleet as drivers are doing a lot of training on a simulator. December still seems like a realistic timeframe for passenger service, but that’ll all depend on how well testing goes. The extensive testing and training only needs to be done once, for the majority of the new fleet they’ll arrive, complete fault free running then enter service.
You say that the original arrival date was 27th January - yes, it was, after the original original arrival date in December was pushed back due to December being a busy period. One does wonder what that even means. Just to confirm that I am not making this up, the following two links mention the original arrival date as well as the arrival of the first unit being pushed back due December being a busy period:
Watch: The first new Metro train runs along the Stadler test track | nexus.org.uk
The first new Tyne and Wear Metro train has been captured on video being put through its paces at the Stadler test track in Switzerland. The new train, one of the first in the new £362m Metro fleet to be completed, can be seen running along a special test track. Click here to see the video.
The second article does mention that by 'busy' they mean engineering work taking place in December, but - correct me if I am wrong - engineering work is normally scheduled some time ahead, so I find it quite frustrating that the arrival was only delayed in November, just weeks before the first unit was due to arrive to the North East.
Finally, yes, entry into service might be an estimate, but the original entry into service was scheduled to be in the Summer of 2023. This was also pushed back before they even knew that the delivery of the first unit was not going to take place in December, if I remember correctly (see https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/when-new-metro-tyne-trains-25574836). It is easy to suggest that if entry into service has already been pushed back to Autumn 2023, these additional months of delay definitely will not help the trains enter passenger service any quicker, the opposite is most likely.
i am a big fan of the network, which just saddens me even more as both a fan and a regular user of the Metro to see dates being pushed back constantly while the service is progressively getting worse. Last month, I believe, trains punctuality was at possibly the lowest it has ever been (67%), which is in strong contrast with what we were seeing back in 2007/08, when they proudly announced that the trains were running with a punctuality of 96% (on average), see https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/another-record-breaking-year-metro-punctuality.
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DanNCL
Established Member
The delivery is on and it’s already got further than it got last time. Linked tweet shows 555003 being hauled through Baden-Württemberg in Germany by a RailAdventure Vossloh diesel.
Entry into service was at first promised for Summer 2023, this was pushed back, if I recall correctly, because it was realised that 6 months from delivery of the first unit to entry into service wasn't realistic. Realistically, regardless what Nexus say publicly, we’re looking at December this year or early 2024 for entry into service. Taking into consideration the Covid pandemic in 2020 which held up the initial design phase, the contracts being signed two months before the first lockdown, 6 months delay isn’t that bad.
General rule of thumb with Nexus is that if the likes of Jamie Driscoll, Kim McGuinness or Martin Gannon start making noise about it, take it with a pinch of salt. They’ll say whatever they need to say to win votes even if it isn’t true, and Nexus seem to be quite happy to allow them to play politics with the new fleet (and indeed the Metro in general). The end result is the public being given misleading information.I really admire your positivity, but as dates have been pushed back a few times as I mentioned in my original message, it is hard to believe they will keep to any dates they will throw at us over the coming months.
You say that the original arrival date was 27th January - yes, it was, after the original original arrival date in December was pushed back due to December being a busy period. One does wonder what that even means. Just to confirm that I did not make this up, the following two links mention the original arrival date as well as the arrival of the first unit being pushed back due December being a busy period:
Watch: The first new Metro train runs along the Stadler test track | nexus.org.uk
The first new Tyne and Wear Metro train has been captured on video being put through its paces at the Stadler test track in Switzerland. The new train, one of the first in the new £362m Metro fleet to be completed, can be seen running along a special test track. Click here to see the video.www.nexus.org.uk
The second article does mention that by 'busy' they mean enginerring work taking place in December, but - correct me if I am wrong - engineering work is normally scheduled some time ahead, so I find it quite frustrating that the arrival was only delayed in November, just weeks before the first unit was due to arrive in the North East.
Finally, yes, entry into service might be an estimate, but the original entry into service was scheduled to be in the Summer 2023. This was also pushed back even before they knew that the delivery of the first unit was not going to take place in December, if I remember correctly (see https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/when-new-metro-tyne-trains-25574836). It is easy to suggest that if entry into service has already been pushed back into Autumn 2023, these additional months of delay definitely will not help the trains enter passenger service any quicker, the opposite is most likely.
i am a big fan of the network, which just saddens me even more as both a fan and a regular user of the Metro to see dates being pushed back constantly while the service is progressively getting worse. Last month, I believe, trains punctuality was at possibly the lowest it has ever been (67%), which is in strong contrast with what we were seeing back in 2008/09, when they proudly announced that the trains were running with a punctuality of 95% (on average), see https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/another-record-breaking-year-metro-punctuality.
Entry into service was at first promised for Summer 2023, this was pushed back, if I recall correctly, because it was realised that 6 months from delivery of the first unit to entry into service wasn't realistic. Realistically, regardless what Nexus say publicly, we’re looking at December this year or early 2024 for entry into service. Taking into consideration the Covid pandemic in 2020 which held up the initial design phase, the contracts being signed two months before the first lockdown, 6 months delay isn’t that bad.
Of course from the very beginning, we got told 2021 could be the year we will see the first new train, always felt that was extremely optimistic. This then got pushed back to 2022 and now 2023. I would not be at all surprised if entry into passenger service won't be till next year. I do wonder how many units will be delivered before one enters passenger service though.
Anyways fingers crossed the move happens this time.
Anyways fingers crossed the move happens this time.
This is true but there’s also other reasons why A ends are the only ends driven from in passenger service.
One issue is that the configuration ABAB causes issues of getting air into the breaking system to release the breaks in the even that you have to shut off some of the air pipes due to a leak.
Similarly, cars aren’t used anymore due to the frequent break downs of the compressors and other components, they need the redundancy of having the second car to Provide the systems If the first car fails/
Killingworth
Established Member
That wire looks high enough to test a double deck train.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
That's because they do test a lot of double deck stock at Velim.
It does look odd over the 555, I agree.
DanNCL
Established Member
I believe it's the same height as the highest wires on the Metro network!
The Laziest
Member
That’s a good sign, hopefully. I really cannot wait to see the new Class 555 being tested on the network.
Regarding the involvement of politicians, I am not sure what you mean. Those articles I referred to quote Nexus’ own spokepeople. It was Nexus who initially advised that trains would enter passenger service in the Summer of 2023, only to then push this back to Autumn. It was also Nexus who supposedly pushed back the arrival of the first unit (this was even before the first delivery failed due to a technical glitch on the way to the UK.
Finally, I think you hit the nail on the head there - I think Nexus does not think realistically in terms of how long things like deliveries of new trains, testing of these and, in general, maintenance of the network might take, so they end up setting people’s expectations to certain time frames they will not be able to meet. This also happened with the 3-month maintenance and track dualling between Pelaw and South Shields. They seriously need to start adding additional time to their initial time frames, because clearly that is the only way they can stop disappointing people. It works a bit like Amazon: you get told you will get the product delivered on Friday but you end up getting it on Thursday. In most cases it is much more pleasant to get that early rather than late.
Anyways, fingers crossed there are no issues with this delivery and 555003 gets here okay and there are no issues during testing.
DanNCL
Established Member
555003 has been spotted in France today so is still making good progress. From looking at Facebook groups it looks like this move has attracted a lot more interest from enthusiasts on the continent than deliveries to the UK normally would.
There is an STP movement from Frethun to Dollands Moor transited the Channel Tunnel about an hour ago, not sure what was on it, it might have been 555003 as the timing would be right.
It’s being delivered with two barrier wagons and four additional wagons for brake force. Two tampers were added to the consist in Germany and are coming with 555003 to the UK, not sure where they’re headed but I don’t think they’re for Metro.
There is an STP movement from Frethun to Dollands Moor transited the Channel Tunnel about an hour ago, not sure what was on it, it might have been 555003 as the timing would be right.
It’s being delivered with two barrier wagons and four additional wagons for brake force. Two tampers were added to the consist in Germany and are coming with 555003 to the UK, not sure where they’re headed but I don’t think they’re for Metro.
ExRes
Established Member
RTT are showing 6Q55 Wednesday arrival at Belmont Down Yard, then 1000 6Q75 to Scunthorpe Frodingham (Gr) and 0Z76 1415 arrival back at Belmont before Thursdays continuation as 0138 6Q56 to Tyne SS
DanNCL
Established Member
I’m trying to get my head around what exactly the plan is for taking delivery of the full fleet of 555s and getting rid of the metrocars. Obviously with the Gosforth depot rebuild limiting stabling space, there won’t be many 555s that can arrive before metrocars have to start leaving the network.
Could we be seeing metrocars once withdrawn dumped in places usually avoided for stabling like Stoddart Street sidings? The reason they aren’t usually used if I recall correctly is vandalism risk, presumably Nexus wouldn’t be too fussed about withdrawn stock awaiting a one way trip to Newport or Rotherham being ‘tagged’.
Or is there a plan to start removing metrocars from Howdon by road as soon as they’re withdrawn, and therefore eliminating the need to store them anywhere on the network?
Could we be seeing metrocars once withdrawn dumped in places usually avoided for stabling like Stoddart Street sidings? The reason they aren’t usually used if I recall correctly is vandalism risk, presumably Nexus wouldn’t be too fussed about withdrawn stock awaiting a one way trip to Newport or Rotherham being ‘tagged’.
Or is there a plan to start removing metrocars from Howdon by road as soon as they’re withdrawn, and therefore eliminating the need to store them anywhere on the network?
That would make sense. Leave the 555 at Belmont, take the tampers to Scunthorpe, then go back to Belmont to pick up the 555 again and carry on north.
ExRes
Established Member
According to info on se gen arrival into Frethun Yard is confirmed but the trip to Dollands Moor has been cancelled until Thursday
DanNCL
Established Member
4913 0645 Frethun - Dollands Moor should have moved the unit through the tunnel this morning but was cancelled, reason unknown. Could be a loco failure in the tunnel, as an eastbound working left Dollands Moor at 0441 but didn’t make it to Frethun. May be reattempted tomorrow. But definitely won’t be arriving at Pelaw on Friday now.
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They built a new depot near the Tyne Tunnel for exactly this purpose didn't they?
DanNCL
Established Member
Howdon depot was built so that they had space for the existing fleet whilst Gosforth was rebuilt, as well as somewhere with better road access than Hylton Street. Once the depot rebuild is complete they’ll have ample space for both 555s and metrocars, but until Gosforth is finished they won’t and that’s still some way off yet.
ExRes
Established Member
Looks as though it could be happening on Thursday, 1702 0Z54 Kings Norton OTPD to Wembley Receptions 1-7 and 2349 6Q55 to Belmont Down Yard on RTT so far
Class91Joe
Member
Train 4913 did end up running this morning: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:36354/2023-02-21/detailed. I think the reports just went in late because when I checked earlier it seemed as if it hadn't ran. Does this mean it's now in the UK?
Royston Vasey
Established Member
East Boldon springs to mind
DanNCL
Established Member
4913 had been reported as caped but as @Class91Joe has said it ran after all, although it's also expected to run again tomorrow. So 555003 could now be at Dollands Moor, or 4913 could have been 92015 light loco. Regardless which of the two it was, the plan remains to move the unit from Dollands Moor on Thursday.
SE gen has been a useful resource for finding out what's happening with the tunnel move and on to Wembley. Thanks to those who've posted gen there.
For workings in the UK we have:
21 or 22/02 4913 0645 Calais Frethun - Dollands Moor
92015 if ran today otherwise 920xx + 8047370279 IGB + 8047370071 IGB + 8027970192 IWA + 555003 + 8027970200 IWA + 8047370394 IGB + 8047370477 IGB + DR75505 + DR75506
23/02 6Q42 time TBC Dollands Moor - Wembley Receptions 1-7
66001 (expected) + 8047370279 IGB + 8047370071 IGB + 8027970192 IWA + 555003 + 8027970200 IWA + 8047370394 IGB + 8047370477 IGB + DR75505 + DR75506
23/02 6Q55 2355 Wembley Receptions 1-7 - Belmont Down Yard 2x 43/4 + 8047370279 IGB + 8047370071 IGB + 8027970192 IWA + 555003 + 8027970200 IWA + 8047370394 IGB + 8047370477 IGB + DR75505 + DR75506.
Date and time TBC Belmont Down Yard - Tyne Yard 2x 43/4 + 8047370279 IGB + 8047370071 IGB + 8027970192 IWA + 555003 + 8027970200 IWA + 8047370394 IGB + 8047370477 IGB
Date and time TBC Tyne Yard - Pelaw, same vehicles as above but possibly remarshalled to make handover to Nexus traction at Pelaw easier.
Tampers will be detached at Belmont, will be taken to Scunthorpe, then the 43/4s will return to Belmont light to collect the 555 again.
No onward working to Tyne Yard or Pelaw yet.
Update 22/02 11:00
555003 confirmed on UK soil at Dollands Moor. Arrived this morning on train 4913, hauled by 92015 and 92042.
23/02 6Q42 1730 Dollands Moor - Wembley 66001 + barriers + 555003 + barriers + tampers
Expected to run in path of 6B42 in the WTT, have linked to 6B42s schedule but it'll run either as a VAR schedule with the correct headcode or as an STP schedule in the same path as the one linked. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H39134/2023-02-23/detailed
23/02 6Q55 2355 Wembley - Belmont Down Yard 2x 43/4s + barriers + 555003 + barriers + tampers
Weekend at Belmont
27/02 6Q56 tbc Belmont Down Yard - Tyne Yard 2x 43/4s + barriers + 555003 + barriers
28/02 6Q57 tbc Tyne Yard - Pelaw 2x 43/4s + barriers + 555003 + barriers
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Killingworth
Established Member
DB Cargo 92015 + 92042 haul the First Tyne & Wear Metro Class 555 into the UK! - 22/2/23
Youtube video by HSTHoward
Class142sbad
Member
- Joined
- 14 Nov 2021
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ExRes
Established Member
Pathway now on RTT for today, 1725 7Q42 Dollands Moor Sdgs to DB Cargo Fan
DanNCL
Established Member
Finalised delivery plan:
23/02 7Q42 1725 Dollands Moor - Wembley hauled by 66001. Note via Sevenoaks instead of Maidstone.
23/02 6Q55 2349 Wembley - Belmont hauled by 43465 and 43484
25/02 6Q56 0208 Belmont - Tyne hauled by 43465 and 43484
28/02 6Q57 0012 Tyne - Pelaw hauled by 43465 and 43484
Powercars and barriers leave Pelaw as 6Z58 0441 Pelaw - Belmont. Powercars will return to Kings Norton, barriers will go back to Europe.
7Q42 on the move, 4 early at Ashford.
23/02 7Q42 1725 Dollands Moor - Wembley hauled by 66001. Note via Sevenoaks instead of Maidstone.
23/02 6Q55 2349 Wembley - Belmont hauled by 43465 and 43484
25/02 6Q56 0208 Belmont - Tyne hauled by 43465 and 43484
28/02 6Q57 0012 Tyne - Pelaw hauled by 43465 and 43484
Powercars and barriers leave Pelaw as 6Z58 0441 Pelaw - Belmont. Powercars will return to Kings Norton, barriers will go back to Europe.
7Q42 on the move, 4 early at Ashford.
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BRX
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Oct 2008
- Messages
- 3,703
Here they are creeping through south london tonight
Is there some reason the 43s can't go to Dollands Moor, by the way, and collect directly from there?
Is there some reason the 43s can't go to Dollands Moor, by the way, and collect directly from there?