[RESOLVED!] GWR: delay repay or refund?

[contrex]

Partner and I attempted to go from Stapleton Rd to Cardiff Central today. 2 x Off Peak Day Return with old-fogey railcards. £20.50 total. Took the 11.10 Stapleton Rd - Filton Abbey Wood, to await the 11.37 to Cardiff. This was severely delayed, arrived 12.20. Someone announced on the PA that a train had failed in the Severn Tunnel and the driver was awaiting signaller advice. After about 10 minutes, told that the tunnel was being inspected for damage, then finally that we would proceed and await a 'slot through the tunnel'. Off we went to just past Pilning. Another wait, then we were told that the train was not proceeding any further, and was now going back directly to Bristol Temple Meads. We went directly using the main. Out we all got at around 14.00. I went to the ticket office to ask about options. A trainee at the window asked his mentor for advice. He said that a complete refund would not be suitable if we still needed to get home to Stapleton Road. We'd need the tickets to open the barriers (which all turned out to be open). He gave me a GWR 'Tell us Your Views" leaflet and an envelope and said I should use the feedback box to summarise the situation and ask for a refund. He said the Delay Repay route was not appropriate because the journey was not completed. I heard a gate line person telling a confused passenger to 'get a coach from the bus station' ('Where's that?') This was not suitable for us because we would have got to Cardiff round about the time we wanted to come back again. Is there no online method of claiming a refund? Will we have to post the tickets and hope for the best? Please move this is not the right forum for this topic.

 

[Haywain]

A full refund is due as the journey was abandoned. And the clerk was correct not to take it in at Temple Meads as you needed to get to Stapleton Road.

 

[contrex]

Thanks. Is there an online route, or must I trust to Royal Mail?

 

[plymothian]

https://refunds.gwr.com/

 

[Haywain]

Looks like you can do it online here: Refunds

 

[Kite159]

A full refund is due as the journey was abandoned. And the clerk was correct not to take it in at Temple Meads as you needed to get to Stapleton Road.

Shame they didn't issue the refund at Temple Meads then provide an "back on track" voucher to allow travel back to Stapleton Road.

But whenever did the railways put the passenger first ...

 

[father_jack]

Partner and I attempted to go from Stapleton Rd to Cardiff Central today. 2 x Off Peak Day Return with old-fogey railcards. £20.50 total. Took the 11.10 Stapleton Rd - Filton Abbey Wood, to await the 11.37 to Cardiff. This was severely delayed, arrived 12.20. Someone announced on the PA that a train had failed in the Severn Tunnel and the driver was awaiting signaller advice. After about 10 minutes, told that the tunnel was being inspected for damage, then finally that we would proceed and await a 'slot through the tunnel'. Off we went to just past Pilning. Another wait, then we were told that the train was not proceeding any further, and was now going back directly to Bristol Temple Meads. Out we all got at around 14.00. I went to the ticket office to ask about options. A trainee at the window asked his mentor for advice. He said that a complete refund would not be suitable if we still needed to get home to Stapleton Road. We'd need the tickets to open the barriers (which all turned out to be open). He gave me a GWR 'Tell us Your Views" leaflet and an envelope and said I should use the feedback box to summarise the situation and ask for a refund. He said the Delay Repay route was not appropriate because the journey was not completed. I heard a gate line person telling a confused passenger to 'get a coach from the bus station' ('Where's that?') This was not suitable for us because we would have got to Cardiff round about the time we wanted to come back again. Is there no online method of claiming a refund? Will we have to post the tickets and hope for the best? Please move this is not the right forum for this topic.

Where did you buy the tickets please ?

 

[contrex]

Where did you buy the tickets please ?

Using contactless debit card, as paper tickets from the conductor/guard on the first train we boarded (Stapleton Road to Filton Abbey Wood).

I have now submitted an online refund claim to the GWR Refund Portal, and I await developments.

 

[contrex]

I've now had this claim rejected twice.

1. Because the scan of the tickets did not clearly show that they were cut in two.

2. Having got out the scissors, and re-submitted, rejected today because 'We have checked our records and there is evidence that this ticket has been used for travel. Therefore, we are unable to provide a refund on this occasion.'

It was used for 'travel', yes, in the sense that it was purchased on a train from Stapleton Road (unstaffed) to Filton Abbey Wood. The much delayed second train, a Penzance to Cardiff 'Castle' HST, from Filton Abbey Wood to Cardiff Central, was halted for a long while after Pilning ('trouble in the Severn Tunnel') and then reversed back at moderate pace to Bristol Temple Meads. By that time there was no point in going to Cardiff as we would have arrived roughly when we had planned to come home again, so we travelled back to Stapleton Road. After visiting the ticket office at Bristol TM as above. I'm surprised that the refunds team are not able to check from the train details given, that the journey was not completed.

I've been using the claim category 'Refund Reason: Service Cancelled or Disrupted'.

Any ideas what to do now? I have until Feb 14 to make a fresh claim. I can't see anywhere on the online claim screen to enter some text clarifying what happened.

I'm getting the distinct impression that GWR want to hang on to my twenty quid. Are they saying that's what I have to pay to ride to Pilning and back?

[Later] - I have made a fresh claim and also typed out the whole story in MS Word as per my original post here, and then taken a screenshot, saved it as an image file, and uploaded it as 'additional evidence' along with the scanned cut-up tickets. maybe someone will read it. Image attached below.

Am I making this claim the wrong way? GWR don't seem to show any phone number on their web presence for me to ask an actual human.

 

[WesternLancer]

I've now had this claim rejected twice.

1. Because the scan of the tickets did not clearly show that they were cut in two.

2. Having got out the scissors, and re-submitted, rejected today because 'We have checked our records and there is evidence that this ticket has been used for travel. Therefore, we are unable to provide a refund on this occasion.'

It was used for 'travel', yes, in the sense that it was purchased on a train from Stapleton Road (unstaffed) to Filton Abbey Wood. The much delayed second train, a Penzance to Cardiff 'Castle' HST, from Filton Abbey Wood to Cardiff Central, was halted for a long while after Pilning ('trouble in the Severn Tunnel') and then reversed back at moderate pace to Bristol Temple Meads. By that time there was no point in going to Cardiff as we would have arrived roughly when we had planned to come home again, so we travelled back to Stapleton Road. After visiting the ticket office at Bristol TM as above. I'm surprised that the refunds team are not able to check from the train details given, that the journey was not completed.

Any ideas what to do now? I have until Feb 14 to make a fresh claim. I can't see anywhere on the online claim screen to enter some text clarifying what happened.

I'm getting the distinct impression that GWR want to hang on to my twenty quid. Are they saying that's what I have to pay to ride to Pilning and back?

I thought you could claim for when abandonment forces you to cancel journey in NrCoC* - the fact that the journey was part way through before the disruption kicks in should not prevent that surely - is it point 30 page 20 of this ? I'd remind them of that

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf

Then maybe a case for going to the Ombudsman or Passenger Focus if they still reject it. Occurs to me they are sending you round in circles so you need to escalate this if they will not accept you pointing out the disruption related refund clauses! Are they honestly saying that essentially because you got to see the view en route part way to your destination before coming straight back you are not entitled to a refund....

*about 10 years ago I and a colleague headed off to a work meeting and the train got stuck en route - we were so late that part way thru the rest of the journey we just had to get off and return to origin point. Bought tickets at ticket office and just went to explain at the same ticket office and money was handed back - I can see that this is no different to that

 

[Haywain]

I've been using the claim category 'Refund Reason: Service Cancelled or Disrupted'.

I'm not familiar with the available reasons for refund, but i wonder if there is also one for 'abandoned journey' which is slightly more appropriate. I am guessing that 'cancelled or disrupted' is suggesting that you didn't travel at all and they are seeing that the ticket has been scanned and is therefore used. On reflection, it may be that the person in the ticket office at Temple Meads who advised you to write in for a refund might have been giving better advice than we have done as your request would have been seen and read at the first attempt by someone capable of dealing with it correctly. As you have now had another go, all you can do is wait, but I would have suggested trying to contact GWR directly rather than going through the online process again.

 

[mikeb42]

My history of dozens of past refund and Delay Repay claims from GWR includes at least one very similar experience: Returned to origin as delays incurred during the journey rendered the whole trip pointless. Applied for a full refund which was then serially rejected because the outbound ticket had (inevitably) been through a barrier.

This was several years ago and there's since been a general impression that GWR have got better at handling claims more complex than trivial Delay Repays. Perhaps not... My historic one was resolved by writing an old-fashioned snail-mail letter. Then another one, and another and so-on.

Rather than sending a narrative, I find the best approach with wrongfully rejected refund claims is bullet points which:

i) Quote the relevant sentences from clause 30.1 in the NRCoT
ii) Itemise how each criterion embodied in 30.1 matches with the specifics of my journey with no superfluous detail beyond that
iii) Demand that they provide a specific refutation of each element of ii) or cough up
iv) When it drags on after multiple attempts, quote "30.3 Your refund application will be processed without undue delay" with heavy irony...

The instance I'm recalling took about 6 months to resolve due to the length of time it took for each round of correspondence - several months. I did get the refund and an apology in the end though.

 

[WesternLancer]

My history of dozens of past refund and Delay Repay claims from GWR includes at least one very similar experience: Returned to origin as delays incurred during the journey rendered the whole trip pointless. Applied for a full refund which was then serially rejected because the outbound ticket had (inevitably) been through a barrier.

This was several years ago and there's since been a general impression that GWR have got better at handling claims more complex than trivial Delay Repays. Perhaps not... My historic one was resolved by writing an old-fashioned snail-mail letter. Then another one, and another and so-on.

Rather than sending a narrative, I find the best approach with wrongfully rejected refund claims is bullet points which:

i) Quote the relevant sentences from clause 30.1 in the NRCoT
ii) Itemise how each criterion embodied in 30.1 matches with the specifics of my journey with no superfluous detail beyond that
iii) Demand that they provide a specific refutation of each element of ii) or cough up
iv) When it drags on after multiple attempts, quote "30.3 Your refund application will be processed without undue delay" with heavy irony...

The instance I'm recalling took about 6 months to resolve due to the length of time it took for each round of correspondence - several months. I did get the refund and an apology in the end though.

I agree with this - tho it may be possible to convert the letter to an e-mail these days

But not immediately easy to get postal or e-mail addresses off the GWR website! Tho if it saves the OP time I found this booklet which does include those details if needed: https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdf...edure-2019--how-to-make-a-complaint.pdf?la=en

from:

Make a complaint with GWR | Process and support for your concerns | Great Western Railway | Great Western Railway

If you have any concerns, find out how to file a complaint with GWR and understand the steps we'll take to address it.

www.gwr.com

I would indeed emphasise the wording that your refund is connected with an 'Abandoned Journey' (industry term after all) after such serious disruption on route that it was not possible to complete the journey that you had embarked upon.

Don't let them grind you down and get out of paying you back !

 

[contrex]

[UPDATE] I called their phone number, and an agent sympathised with me, and after taking the latest claim ref number and asking me some personal details said 1. He would put a note on my account summarising the situation 2. I should make a claim for max delay repay (120+ mins). 3. If I got 'a decision that I didn't like' to call back. 4. Yesterday was the 28th day since the journey so to do it at once. I may make a separate complaint and quote the relevant NRCoT clauses as described above. This sort of thing was my bread and butter before I retired last March, as I was a finance officer with policy responsibility in a large public sector organisation, only now I'm on the receiving end!

 

[WesternLancer]

[UPDATE] I called their phone number, and an agent sympathised with me, and after taking the latest claim ref number and asking me some personal details said 1. He would put a note on my account summarising the situation 2. I should make a claim for max delay repay (120+ mins). 3. If I got 'a decision that I didn't like' to call back. 4. Yesterday was the 28th day since the journey so to do it at once. I may make a separate complaint and quote the relevant NRCoT clauses as described above. This sort of thing was my bread and butter before I retired last March, as I was a finance officer with policy responsibility in a large public sector organisation, only now I'm on the receiving end!

I should make a claim for max delay repay (120+ mins)

I fear this is bad advice that they have given you....
and I fear it will not work once it goes back again to the D-R team

I may make a separate complaint and quote the relevant NRCoT clauses as described above.

I would strongly suggest you do this, in writing, not via phone

This sort of thing was my bread and butter before I retired last March, as I was a finance officer with policy responsibility in a large public sector organisation,

Gamekeeper turned poacher

 

[Benjwri]

I fear this is bad advice that they have given you....
and I fear it will not work once it goes back again to the D-R team

I was told once this is how GWR like to deal with tickets that have been technically used, because their refund system doesn’t like processing refunds for tickets have have been validated, and it avoids it having to be escalated a long way up the chain.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was told once this is how GWR like to deal with tickets that have been technically used, because their refund system doesn’t like processing refunds for tickets have have been validated, and it avoids it having to be escalated a long way up the chain.

Well, hope it does work out - good luck and keep us posted. Well done for keeping on pursuing it!

 

[contrex]

Well, hope it does work out - good luck and keep us posted. Well done for keeping on pursuing it!

I could hardly do otherwise, twenty quid's twenty quid, and I'm a pensioner. Plus I have plenty of time to spare. Thanks for the good wishes!

I was told once this is how GWR like to deal with tickets that have been technically used, because their refund system doesn’t like processing refunds for tickets have have been validated, and it avoids it having to be escalated a long way up the chain.

Well, it certainly worked in my case, because I just received this email 10 minutes ago:

Dear My Real Name

Thank you for your delay repay claim which we received on Tue, 17 Jan 2023.

We are sorry that you experienced a delay to your journey.

Your claim has been checked using a set process and the details of any delay verified using industry systems holding historic train running information. We have reviewed your claim and can confirm the following:

Journey Details:
Travel Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022
Departing 11:10 from STAPLETON ROAD to CARDIFF CENTRAL
Decision: Approved

We have confirmed that the delay you experienced was 120 minutes or more and that you are entitled to £20.10 in compensation. For further information on how we have calculated your award amount, please visit the Delay Repay page on the GWR website.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement, both here and the person who PM'd me!

 

[WesternLancer]

I could hardly do otherwise, twenty quid's twenty quid, and I'm a pensioner. Plus I have plenty of time to spare. Thanks for the good wishes!



Well, it certainly worked in my case, because I just received this email 10 minutes ago:


Thanks for all the help and encouragement, both here and the person who PM'd me!

Thanks for update. Good to hear!

 

[contrex]

Thinking about it, judging by the number of people tipped out when the train had reversed back to Temple Meads (the train had come up from Penzance, and appeared to be working back there in service) I don't expect I was the only person attempting such a claim. Also, if the tunnel was blocked, there were probably people disrupted ex-Cardiff as well.

 

[contrex]

Final update! Cheque received today in the post; GWR emailed me on 19 Jan to say that card repayment had failed (i don't know why, I provided checked details).