Townsend Hook
Member
Albeit partially offset by the class 360s on the Corby services.
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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
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Skymonster
Established Member
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Indeed, especially as EMR loadings are now at pre-COVID levels. However, I gather this is in the plan demanded by the DfT, and these days the DfT rarely seems to be overly concerned with niceties such as there being enough space on trains to meet demand.
Alternatively the 180s added little capacity due to their poor availability but added a lot to the cost due to being a seperate fleet. It'll be much better when the 810s are in service
InTheEastMids
Member
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However the diagramming in those days was very inefficient as there were so many permutations and combinations of stock possible.
...which I think released around 3 Cl222s for Nottingham/Sheffield.
Indeed, I've seen other members of this forum comment that the recovery of EMR demand in passenger numbers has been at least partly driven by abstraction from Thameslink.
But I agree with the point, most of the EMR services I've been on since the pandemic have been full or thereabouts, a number of morning peak arrivals and evening peak departures at St Pancras are only 5 cars already, so there will be a concern that things are going to get noticeable worse this summer.
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
They just be sent to Long Marston, Ely or Worksop to gather dust with the rest of half decent rolling stock coming off lease - the DfT don't have a strategy.
Maybe, if you look at the passenger km's travelled for July to September 2022 vs the same period in 2019 it's 95.3% of the total (pure numbers between the 2 and it's 99.9%)
That would imply shorter journeys are making up some of the difference in total numbers, how much difference that makes is difficult to understand from the publicly available data, as if it's 2 journeys half the distance then it could be that they are 10% down. However if it's more trips but a shorter distance (sat a quarter the distance) then they could be only a little more than 6% down.
I doubt that replacing one class of trains which are razor blade raw material with another would go down well at all, especially with those living near to the MML south line seeing the promise of a pollution-free passenger service that they have paid for being delayed unnecessarily.Strikes me that is the 180s leases expire soon, and GW are scaling back on the Castle Class fleet HSTs, there is a real opportunity to replace the 180s with some Castle Class HSTs to use on the MML
WesternLancer
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Why would it be an unnecessary delay? The 180s were proposed / promised / clearly implied additional stock to cover until the new build 810s are delivered - but now it is being suggested that the 180s will go in May 2023 - but the date for 810 introduction seems to be slipping later into 2024 - meaning that pollution free environment on the south end of the MML remains a mirage only visible through a diesel exhaust haze for some time to come....
or, more likely, stay at 100mph.
more than offset, when taking into account the stopping patterns and loadings.
Not if you remove all the passengers gained from Thameslink.
Trainbike46
Established Member
For the purposes of rolling stock requirements it doesn't matter whether passengers were abstracted from thameslink or not. If they travel on an EMR train, there should be space for them there. Unless of course the timetable were to be changed to attempt to push passengers back onto thameslink
The “morning peak” trains into London are quieter, but for those who use the service at any other time EMR IC services are regularly full and standing Possibly this is partly down to fewer seats due to no HSTs, but on the ground you’d struggle to tell the difference between now and 2019.
The busiest trains in terms of being uncomfortably crowded will be the ICs. There is space on the 360s when they run as eight cars, albeit they’re getting steadily busier.
I agree. However you must also therefore take into account the 84 x Class 360 coaches that have been provided.
bluelagoon8951
Member
looks like the first completed 810 is standing outside the factory
from: https://twitter.com/railexpress/status/1617831568864870401?t=gnDGxYAIDv3umttvW7JVTA&s=19 - pic by James Garthwaite
from: https://twitter.com/railexpress/status/1617831568864870401?t=gnDGxYAIDv3umttvW7JVTA&s=19 - pic by James Garthwaite
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XCTurbostar
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Very nice, I know its been discussed to death but I'm disappointed about the lack of front yellow given that the rest of the EMR fleets will have yellow.
Indeed. I think it's what we are used to. It always completes any train look. Looks very smart though.
WizCastro197
Established Member
Is it just me, but are the windows placed a lot lower than other 80xs?
Very smart. The aubergine livery does work well on these.
QSK19
Member
I believe the plan was to keep the “normal” AT300 doors, but instead to open towards the edge of the carriage in order to maximise passenger space. I stand corrected if not, though.
Correct. There are windows on the inner side.
Prestige15
On Moderation
The 810 is a almost compleatly different new train compared to the 805/7, The same way as 720's and 701/730s. Hull Trains and Lumo use to use other 8xx's from other TOC for training before their own fleet arrives and I reckon Avanti would do the same, Don't look like it'll be the case with the 810s i don't think.
Hmm. Not sure about that but aesthetics are subjective I admit. I actually think they would look good on the old BR blue grey.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Putting them against the door window position they do look slightly lower, yes, but not massively so. Might make it nicer to rest your elbow on the window frame?
That does look great though. Better than the 26m units I'd say.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Looks impressive.
Killingworth
Established Member
That's correct. Many elements are different not just the length and distribution of power packs. The wiring arrangement is totally different. I'm not familiar with rolling stock construction so will leave it to others to explain the differences in detail
What it adds up to is that although first deliveries should be running this year it would be optimistic to expect them to be fully tested and all to be in revenue earning service before the May 2025 timetable changes. Possibly even December for those with a pessimistic view.
Which possibly helps explain why the 222s are receiving attention, although they do need it.
RailWonderer
Established Member
This may have been mentioned before but I don't have time to read 51 pages of posts. Will there be a buffet on these trains or will it be a trolley service only? I was on a 180 the other day and they said they had withdrawn the trolley service and that only first class would get complementary food and drink and that was that.
No buffet and will be a trolley just like now.
Pedant mode on: there won’t be a May or December timetable change in 2025. It will be June or October.
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
Its still far too long. The industry really needs to up its game with such large costs involved in leasing modern trains
Without wishing to sling the thread off course is there any reason for this?