Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'

[bakerstreet]

Seems to be a particular problem on the west section around West Ealing.

I’ve always been rather impressed but I’ve not been further west of Bond Street since through running.

Yes it is busy, but isn’t that the point? And it’s due to get a further frequency increase soon, I think?

What have your experiences been?

Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised' - BBC News

From overcrowding to unreliability, some commuters complain the new service can be a "nightmare".

www.bbc.co.uk

Many say it has been hit and miss, and commuters in West Ealing have been in touch with me to highlight some of the problems.
Many are really fed up with the delays and cancellations and above all the overcrowding.
Sophie Meyrick, who gets the Elizabeth line to work in Hammersmith, said: "I was expecting it to be a reliable, efficient service, where I'd get on the trains no problem. That's not what it is in reality...

 

[BluePenguin]

My experiences have been very good actually,. It has been nice to be able to travel from east to west at a reasonable price. Now there is only one change for Heathrow as well

 

[Bletchleyite]

How, I wonder, is it affecting Heathrow Express's passenger numbers?

 

[gordonthemoron]

I used it to go from Paddington to Heathrow in December, it takes ages, and not just because of the stops, at some stations, there’s a long wait between arriving and departing, Acton & Ealing being the biggest culprit

 

[matt_world2004]

The central line can be quicker from Ealing Broadway in some circumstances because of the wait at Westbourne Park

Tourists can be inconsiderate. I've seen people unable to get off at Hanwell because

Ticketing is too fragmented and confusing for an metro servic

Trains are prone ro leaving early and skipping stops.

 

[zwk500]

This is just a lesson in letting marketing people get carried away and promising too much. I've not used the service, but from the reports I've seen it seems to be working very well and people I've spoken to have been very impressed.

 

[BluePenguin]

How, I wonder, is it affecting Heathrow Express's passenger numbers?

Most likely judging by the amount of suitcases visible on almost every train

 

[mikeb42]

Initially, Paddington<->Abbey Wood was a standout example of what should be routinely expected from rail travel across the board.

Then it got connected to Stratford and beyond, and in particular, west of Paddington. Since when it has imported the poor-odds-lottery that characterises these routes. Random prolonged total stoppages, cancellations, delays, erratic and messed up passenger information, the usual.

The infrastructure west of Paddington (still) seems to be held together with gaffer tape, elastic bands and misplaced optimism. Barely a day goes by without the overhead wires getting into a cat's cradle or points failures or signal failures or herds of wildebeest roaming the line or, or, or ad nauseam. It never seems to get better and stay better for long no matter how much disruptive work is done to it.

The crowding is better than large parts of the tube and like many as long as I can physically barge my way onto the train I just take that as intrinsic to London. If only the damn things would turn up when they're supposed to and go where they're supposed to almost without fail though...

 

[185]

Been on it many times and not once had a problem. For me, only the ticketing seems to be a nuisance. On the few busy (hardly overcrowded) trains, the middles seem quite full, whilst the front and rear are near empty, suggesting people didn't want to walk down the platform.

With the complaints, I get a feeling of 'my state subsidised £1.50 fois gras was a little undercooked'.

Perhaps a more receptive area would have been grateful for this £Xbn service and perhaps stuck it between Liverpool, Manchester and Lee... oh. Okay, I'll stop now.

 

[Taunton]

It is true that the initial core service ran pretty flawlessly, which didn't carry on to through running. I even notice irregular intervals running westbound from Abbey Wood now, which didn't happen in the first phase - notwithstanding which the trains still run somewhat lethargically at each station. I have had the odd "speedy" run, both running and dwell times, which shows it can be done. The Victoria Line cracked this sort of thing in automatic running over 50 years ago - in one command they would cut out the coasting, and a delayed train then ran quicker.

I've never seen a train anywhere "packed". I wonder if it's at a few doors, and there's adequate space further down the (huge) trains. Contrary to much theory, passengers do not recirculate down inside the train, and in particular do not if it is crowded - they can't, by definition, because of the crowd.

It is noticeable that there is nowhere for airport passengers to put their luggage, the provision is not as good as the standback areas on the 1973 Piccadilly Line trains, where it seems it was thought about. This, allied with the paranoia of some that if they don't grip their suitcase(s) handle tightly it will be immediately stolen, leads to all sorts of obstructions to passenger flow.

I've written separately about how on the western section the stone trains on the relief lines seem to be given priority, even when running out of course. How many different Controls manage the whole line?

 

[SynthD]

Wait for the May timetable.

 

[RT4038]

Got to laugh .... 'I was expecting a reliable and efficient service' ...... on a UK railway? Really?

 

[RJ]

Got to laugh .... 'I was expecting a reliable and efficient service' ...... on a UK railway? Really?

To be fair, certain parts of the network are reliable - not had any real issues commuting on HS1 or from Croydon/Lewisham to London for instance, the service is good. But realistic expectations should be held for anything involving the eastern end of the GWML as it does seem to be particularly prone to infrastructure and trespass related disruption.

 

[MikeWM]

I've found it rather good east of Paddington, my only complaints are with the infrastructure rather than the service itself. (Notably that the stations are incredibly bland and soulless, the interchanges to other lines are mostly poor, and the ticket gates at Paddington don't accept gold-card-discounted super-off-peak travelcards for some reason (not an issue I've found at any other ticket gate)).

I've written separately about how on the western section the stone trains on the relief lines seem to be given priority, even when running out of course. How many different Controls manage the whole line?

...but the one time so far I've ventured west of Paddington, the train I was on took about 10 minutes longer than (the already rather generously) timetabled duration just to get to Acton Main Line, as we had to wait for two (!) freight services to pass before we could proceed.

If that's a regular occurrence, it would certainly be frustrating.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Should have built dedicated lines at least as far as Heathrow. Appreciate that would have cost billions and billions but I’m just not sure there is room on the GWML for the service that is required.

 

[Craig1122]

Airport users seem in part to be the Gatwick Express problem again. People avoid the premium price option so leaving spare capacity which might overall be better utilised.

Not sure why Tfl have such an objection to providing any luggage space on trains though, doesn't make like easier. It's odd changing onto a 30 year old 165 for the run of a few minutes to Windsor to find a train with luggage racks, charging points and WiFi, all things Crossrail lacks despite being brand new!

 

[ScotGG]

It's just lazy filler content for the beeb in terms of it being busy with a few people moaning which can be found for *anything*

 

[jumble]

Seems to be a particular problem on the west section around West Ealing.

I’ve always been rather impressed but I’ve not been further west of Bond Street since through running.

Yes it is busy, but isn’t that the point? And it’s due to get a further frequency increase soon, I think?

What have your experiences been?

Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised' - BBC News

From overcrowding to unreliability, some commuters complain the new service can be a "nightmare".

www.bbc.co.uk

Ho Ho Ho
The line is too busy
She complains that there are too many people using it

Is she the one too many?

 

[coppercapped]

It's just lazy filler content for the beeb in terms of it being busy with a few people moaning which can be found for *anything*

Quite. One vox pop includes the classic "Another Elizabeth line user...said she liked the link to Heathrow, but had heard of multiple issues with the service." Shock, horror.

Should have built dedicated lines at least as far as Heathrow. Appreciate that would have cost billions and billions but I’m just not sure there is room on the GWML for the service that is required.

Absolutely agree and I have suggested this in posts on other threads. Crossrail, together with Networks Rail's overspend on the GW electrification has shafted the Western's outer suburban service as far as Oxford quite royally and put severe constraints on the freight services using Acton yard.

It doesn't have to be like this. As the S-Bahn around Munich was extended bit by bit after the 1972 Olympic Games it was on the basis of separated tracks as even with 40 minute intervals - as was the case on the branches back then - delays occurred both to the S-Bahn service and the DB services. I know - I was living in the area at the time.

Intensive Metro type operations and mixed traffic railways do not mix.

Seems to be a particular problem on the west section around West Ealing.

I’ve always been rather impressed but I’ve not been further west of Bond Street since through running.

Yes it is busy, but isn’t that the point? And it’s due to get a further frequency increase soon, I think?

What have your experiences been?

Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised' - BBC News

From overcrowding to unreliability, some commuters complain the new service can be a "nightmare".

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't understand this quote at all:

Sophie Meyrick, who gets the Elizabeth line to work in Hammersmith, said: "I was expecting it to be a reliable, efficient service, where I'd get on the trains no problem. That's not what it is in reality..."

The article doesn't say where she boards Crossrail, but it doesn't go to Hammersmith. At least it didn't the last time I looked.

So what is she complaining about, unreliable District Line trains from Ealing Broadway to Hammersmith, missed connections between White City on the Central Line and Wood Lane or that it's a long walk from the Crossrail platforms to the Hammersmith and City platforms at Paddington?

 

[The exile]

Airport users seem in part to be the Gatwick Express problem again. People avoid the premium price option so leaving spare capacity which might overall be better utilised.

So the express option should not be at a premium - perfectly practical at Heathrow where the trains aren’t going to get packed out with people going further (except by air, of course) - but seen as the way of keeping airport travellers out of other peoples’ way.

 

[danielcanning]

I said this earlier on another thread, Londoners were promised Tube style frequencies in Crossrail publicity, so is it any wonder that many passengers and commuters are not happy with current service levels?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I said this earlier on another thread, Londoners were promised Tube style frequencies in Crossrail publicity, so is it any wonder that many passengers and commuters are not happy with current service levels?

The frequencies are in keeping with the Metropolitan Line, to which it's very similar. Only wilful misreading (i.e. expecting frequencies like the Northern Line in the pre COVID morning rush) would leave people with issues there.

 

[camflyer]

Good to see high passenger numbers. Maybe the theory that everyone was working from home now has been overstated.

I'm sure if passenger numbers were lower than expected people would be complaining that the EL was a waste of money.

Better get on building CR3 and the other TfL projects if the demand is there.

 

[dk1]

You’ll never please all of the people all of the time. My personal experience of it is nothing but positive.

 

[zwk500]

I said this earlier on another thread, Londoners were promised Tube style frequencies in Crossrail publicity, so is it any wonder that many passengers and commuters are not happy with current service levels?

The promise was 20 or 24tph when the full service was in, I believe? This is not quite the full service plan, AIUI, that comes in the next Timetable change

 

[mrmartin]

My main question is how the western section is going to cope with HS2; given I believe it is going to terminate at OOC for some time?

 

[dk1]

My main question is how the western section is going to cope with HS2; given I believe it is going to terminate at OOC for some time?

Bit early to worry about that isn’t it?

 

[swt_passenger]

My main question is how the western section is going to cope with HS2; given I believe it is going to terminate at OOC for some time?

All westbound Crossrail trains will reach Old Oak Common, and half of them will reverse there, so alternate eastbound trains will be starting empty.

 

[Horizon22]

Should have built dedicated lines at least as far as Heathrow. Appreciate that would have cost billions and billions but I’m just not sure there is room on the GWML for the service that is required.

They will effectively be dedicated soon enough (if GWR Didcot Parkway trains run fast to Slough), but a major issue is freight regulation. Also infrastrructure performance is worse on the West generally and appears to be a known issue.

I said this earlier on another thread, Londoners were promised Tube style frequencies in Crossrail publicity, so is it any wonder that many passengers and commuters are not happy with current service levels?

It is between Paddington - Whitechapel. Not sure people were really expecting that further out and 10tph in the peak (12tph on the East) is very good and equivalent to some outer branches of the Underground.

The issue is that the services have generally been pretty empty in parts if you knew where you were going. For example at the rear of the train from Paddington used to be crammed with suitcases for Heathrow (pandemic excepted obviously), but now the Heathrow passengers are more spread out throughout the train which makes it overall busier. I get the impression Heathrow Express passengers have dropped a little, but obviously compared to the last 2-3 years they are still up. This is impressive considering how much marketing Heathrow Airport arrange for HeX around the terminals!

There's a fair amount of induced demand too. I would suggest Hanwell / West Ealing residents are perhaps slightly more annoyed than others because they are only served by Heathrow trains. Acton Main Line has had an uplift in service and through running in less than a year, so that's a major positive.

The article even goes on to say PPM is 93% which is very high, especially with what could have happened with through running into the central section; a December 2018 Thameslink fiasco this was not. People making statements such as

"If you get on it it's great, but I would say more than half the time it's not predictable," she said.

which are easily disprovable and way of the mark can't help.

I think sometimes people just like to complain - sure some days there are delays, but when is there not and if you compare it to the service (let alone the station environment) to what was there just 5-6 years ago, this is a complete different league. There's lots of mention of "wanting improvements" but of what exactly? It's a busy metro railway so certain levels of crowding should be expected. Arguably, it is a victim of its own success.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2023 ==

All westbound Crossrail trains will reach Old Oak Common, and half of them will reverse there, so alternate eastbound trains will be starting empty.

I thought he might have been referring to engineering works which will prevent departures further East to slew lines and such, when (I don't think it's if!) that happens.

 

[Cdd89]

How, I wonder, is it affecting Heathrow Express's passenger numbers?

The staff at Heathrow do their best to encourage you to wait for the “faster” Heathrow Express service. Combined with the “tired tourist” factor, I bet the impact is directionally asymmetric.