Misuse of Freedom Pass - Advice

[throwaway3457]

I was caught using my family members disabled freedom pass. I also received disability allowance but was not given a freedom pass. They took the pass from me. Said my family member can apply to get it back. They asked how often I used it and I said a few times when I forgot mine because I moved house a lot recently. I said I thought I could use it occasionally as I also get disability allowance.

Anyway I have been using it for 1-2 years to go to work etc and I have moved a lot so haven’t been living at the same address as the card owner. I am happy to pay the avoided fare but I am scared of the criminal record. Is it possible to be sent to prison for this? I have no previous criminal record at all, not even warnings etc. Could I be potentially let off with just paying back the money?

Also if I do get a record, how long does it last for and will I have to declare it to all jobs I apply for?

I understand it was a stupid thing to do. I regret it but I just want to know how I can move forward. I am F23.

 

[JBuchananGB]

You will get a letter from TfL in a few weeks time. They will look at the usage pattern of the Pass. They will likely interpret the 1-2 years usage as fraudulent usage which you have made. They will probably prosecute you in magistrates court, and you may receive hefty financial penalties, a criminal record but not a prison sentence. They are unlikely to settle out of court. They consider abuse of high value passes to be a serious matter. If what you said at the time implied that you have your own pass but you do not, you should not attempt to perpetuate that falsehood.

 

[throwaway3457]

You will get a letter from TfL in a few weeks time. They will look at the usage pattern of the Pass. They will likely interpret the 1-2 years usage as fraudulent usage which you have made. They will probably prosecute you in magistrates court, and you may receive hefty financial penalties, a criminal record but not a prison sentence. They are unlikely to settle out of court. They consider abuse of high value passes to be a serious matter. If what you said at the time implied that you have your own pass but you do not, you should not attempt to perpetuate that falsehood.

I didn’t tell them I had my own pass I just said because I got disability allowance too I assumed I could use the pass when not in use too. How long does the criminal record typically last?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...you may receive hefty financial penalties...

This could quickly add up to quite a substantial amount. Others on here have reported being requested to pay something like £6.30 for each and every journey they are alleged to have improperly made using a Freedom pass.

 

[throwaway3457]

This could quickly add up to quite a substantial amount. Others on here have reported being requested to pay something like £6.30 for each and every journey they are alleged to have improperly made using a Freedom pass.

I calculated it as if they ask for me to pay £6.30 per trip for 2 trips every single day for 2 years and it comes to £8,467…

 

[Snow1964]

There is a possibility that they will look up the usage history (not just the live info for last few weeks, but maybe the archived history for year or two)

They might ask if it has been done before (and will obviously be able to see any similar journeys). They might ask about those too.

Clearly if they think you have avoided say £1000 in fares, is a risk they would make any settlement amount appropriate to recover it.

But in meantime, all you can do is await their letter, and keep putting funds into savings in case you get expensive solution.

 

[AlterEgo]

I didn’t tell them I had my own pass I just said because I got disability allowance too I assumed I could use the pass when not in use too.

This was a deeply unwise answer. No reasonable person believes a pass with someone’s name and photo on can be used by them, especially someone who knows they aren’t entitled to their own. It would be wise not to perpetuate this line of defence in any further correspondence.

How long does the criminal record typically last?

It depends on the offence they charge you with, but you should wait until receiving correspondence before worrying too much over it.

 

[JBuchananGB]

You might like to look at

TfL Court letter for using Freedom Pass

Hi everyone, I have been helped by this forum after reading through previous cases and I want to gain some further specific insight related to my case if people are willing to help. I am withholding posting the letters from TfL for now but I will do in due time so people can support me with the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[throwaway3457]

This was a deeply unwise answer. No reasonable person believes a pass with someone’s name and photo on can be used by them, especially someone who knows they aren’t entitled to their own. It would be wise not to perpetuate this line of defence in any further correspondence.


It depends on the offence they charge you with, but you should wait until receiving correspondence before worrying too much over it.

I panicked a bit so I think I was a bit all over the place with my answers. I should have said less. She asked if I know I cannot transfer cards to different people and I said yes though. Is it possible to get legal advice from someone on this? Does CAB handle this stuff?

You might like to look at

TfL Court letter for using Freedom Pass

Hi everyone, I have been helped by this forum after reading through previous cases and I want to gain some further specific insight related to my case if people are willing to help. I am withholding posting the letters from TfL for now but I will do in due time so people can support me with the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thank you

 

[spag23]

They asked how often I used it and I said a few times when I forgot mine

I didn’t tell them I had my own pass

No offence, but the OP needs to address this contradiction before going forward.

 

[30907]

You might like to look at

TfL Court letter for using Freedom Pass

Hi everyone, I have been helped by this forum after reading through previous cases and I want to gain some further specific insight related to my case if people are willing to help. I am withholding posting the letters from TfL for now but I will do in due time so people can support me with the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Unfortunately, that thread doesn't indicate what the offence is, but based on other similar threads it is quite likely to be an offence under the TfL Byelaws for travelling without a valid ticket.
This is easy for them to prove, but it is a "non-recordable" offence and not likely to damage anyone's career significantly: it doesn't result in a criminal record, but may show up on an Enhanced DBS.
It is possible - though one cannot guarantee it - that TfL will proceed in the same way with you, in which case I don't think legal advice is necessary (unless you want to claim some mitigation) - save the money to pay the costs TfL might ask the court to impose.

 

[throwaway3457]

No offence, but the OP needs to address this contradiction before going forward.

I meant I told them I forgot my OYSTER card not freedom pass

Unfortunately, that thread doesn't indicate what the offence is, but based on other similar threads it is quite likely to be an offence under the TfL Byelaws for travelling without a valid ticket.
This is easy for them to prove, but it is a "non-recordable" offence and not likely to damage anyone's career significantly: it doesn't result in a criminal record, but may show up on an Enhanced DBS.
It is possible - though one cannot guarantee it - that TfL will proceed in the same way with you, in which case I don't think legal advice is necessary (unless you want to claim some mitigation) - save the money to pay the costs TfL might ask the court to impose.

The woman who stopped me mentioned me being charged for fraud

 

[AlterEgo]

I panicked a bit so I think I was a bit all over the place with my answers. I should have said less.

When dealing with answering any questions on the spot, without a legal representative present and under caution it is often wise to refuse to answer. The only thing you need to answer by law is to give your correct name and address. You do not *need* to answer anything else and can either stay silent or respond "no comment".

That's a bit late now but you should also bear it in mind for when the company writes to you. The sole purpose of them doing so is to collect evidence to support your successful prosecution in the magistrates' court. Therefore you should be careful what you say when given the chance to explain yourself in writing (this is the first stage of the correspondence they will send you).

She asked if I know I cannot transfer cards to different people and I said yes though.

This is an admission of guilt because you know you are not allowed to use someone else's pass which has their name and photo on it. Only you will know why you said you thought you could use it in the same line of questioning, but it has happened now so don't dwell on it.

Is it possible to get legal advice from someone on this? Does CAB handle this stuff?

CAB won't be able to handle criminal matters. A solicitor can. However, there is no need for one at this stage, and often there is no need to engage one at all. You should wait for the correspondence to arrive first.

The woman who stopped me mentioned me being charged for fraud

The woman who stopped you is not the person who decides what to charge you with. Fraud is a serious criminal matter triable either way (hence can end up ion a Crown Court), which requires a very high bar of evidence to mount a prosecution, and usually requires a skill set above that normally possessed by the train companies' lawyers. They will not prosecute you for fraud, this we can be sure of.

 

[throwaway3457]

When dealing with answering any questions on the spot, without a legal representative present and under caution it is often wise to refuse to answer. The only thing you need to answer by law is to give your correct name and address. You do not *need* to answer anything else and can either stay silent or respond "no comment".

That's a bit late now but you should also bear it in mind for when the company writes to you. The sole purpose of them doing so is to collect evidence to support your successful prosecution in the magistrates' court. Therefore you should be careful what you say when given the chance to explain yourself in writing (this is the first stage of the correspondence they will send you).


This is an admission of guilt because you know you are not allowed to use someone else's pass which has their name and photo on it. Only you will know why you said you thought you could use it in the same line of questioning, but it has happened now so don't dwell on it.


CAB won't be able to handle criminal matters. A solicitor can. However, there is no need for one at this stage, and often there is no need to engage one at all. You should wait for the correspondence to arrive first.


The woman who stopped you is not the person who decides what to charge you with. Fraud is a serious criminal matter triable either way (hence can end up ion a Crown Court), which requires a very high bar of evidence to mount a prosecution, and usually requires a skill set above that normally possessed by the train companies' lawyers. They will not prosecute you for fraud, this we can be sure of.

In hindsight I definitely see I shouldn’t have answered any questions. I really tried to explain myself too much. I’ll keep this is mind for when they contact me, thank you.

At this point I’ve decided to not stress myself about this. What’s done is done and there is nothing I can do about it until I hear from them. I’m prepared for the cash loss and potentially having a record provided it doesn’t massively impact my ability to find a job or travel.

Will I have to declare this to my current job if I do get convicted?

 

[Vero]

I was caught using my family members disabled freedom pass. I also received disability allowance but was not given a freedom pass. They took the pass from me. Said my family member can apply to get it back. They asked how often I used it and I said a few times when I forgot mine because I moved house a lot recently. I said I thought I could use it occasionally as I also get disability allowance.

Anyway I have been using it for 1-2 years to go to work etc and I have moved a lot so haven’t been living at the same address as the card owner. I am happy to pay the avoided fare but I am scared of the criminal record. Is it possible to be sent to prison for this? I have no previous criminal record at all, not even warnings etc. Could I be potentially let off with just paying back the money?

Also if I do get a record, how long does it last for and will I have to declare it to all jobs I apply for?

I understand it was a stupid thing to do. I regret it but I just want to know how I can move forward. I am F23.

Hi I literally went through the same thing TWICE.

I was found using a family member's disability freedom pass TWICE (Although the second time was accidentally but it's a long story to explain).
I was found guilty under Byelaw 17(1) of the Transport for London Railway Byelaws. I pleaded guilty on both incidents and received a fine to pay between £250 - £400.
TFL does say that you will receive a criminal record if you are found guilty HOWEVER this will not appear under a DBS CHECK. Bylaw offences are civil matters and do not end up on the police database which would actually give you a criminal record.
After I was found guilty and paid the fines I and also my employers did a background check on me and NO CRIMINAL RECORD appeared. My employment was not affected and I continued life normally.

I hope this gives you some peace.

 

[throwaway3457]

Hi I literally went through the same thing TWICE.

I was found using a family member's disability freedom pass TWICE (Although the second time was accidentally but it's a long story to explain).
I was found guilty under Byelaw 17(1) of the Transport for London Railway Byelaws. I pleaded guilty on both incidents and received a fine to pay between £250 - £400.
TFL does say that you will receive a criminal record if you are found guilty HOWEVER this will not appear under a DBS CHECK. Bylaw offences are civil matters and do not end up on the police database which would actually give you a criminal record.
After I was found guilty and paid the fines I and also my employers did a background check on me and NO CRIMINAL RECORD appeared. My employment was not affected and I continued life normally.

I hope this gives you some peace.

Thank you for this, it makes me feel a little better. Just think mine might be a bit more severe due to how long I’ve been using it. I guess it all depends on whether they can prove I’ve used it every time for the whole period. But thank you!

 

[30907]

Hi I literally went through the same thing TWICE.

I was found using a family member's disability freedom pass TWICE (Although the second time was accidentally but it's a long story to explain).
I was found guilty under Byelaw 17(1) of the Transport for London Railway Byelaws. I pleaded guilty on both incidents and received a fine to pay between £250 - £400.
TFL does say that you will receive a criminal record if you are found guilty HOWEVER this will not appear under a DBS CHECK. Bylaw offences are civil matters and do not end up on the police database which would actually give you a criminal record.
After I was found guilty and paid the fines I and also my employers did a background check on me and NO CRIMINAL RECORD appeared. My employment was not affected and I continued life normally.

I hope this gives you some peace.

Thank you for posting. It confirms what others have said.

The woman who stopped me mentioned me being charged for fraud.

Fraudulent travel such as yours is one thing - a prosecution under the Fraud Act another (as AlterEgo has said), and AFAIK would only be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service.

 

[throwaway3457]

Thank you for posting. It confirms what others have said.

Fraudulent travel such as yours is one thing - a prosecution under the Fraud Act another (as AlterEgo has said), and AFAIK would only be prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service.

Thanks for clarifying for me

 

[AlterEgo]

Bylaw offences are civil matters

That's not correct. Bylaw offences are criminal matters, which is why they are prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court.

and do not end up on the police database which would actually give you a criminal record.

This is true, they do not end up on the Police National Computer (PNC) as they are deemed so minor to be "non recordable".

Regulation of Railways Act offences are recordable - these require intent to be proven. TfL tend to go for Bylaw convictions probably for the ease of collecting evidence as there is no intent needed for Bylaw matters.

After I was found guilty and paid the fines I and also my employers did a background check on me and NO CRIMINAL RECORD appeared. My employment was not affected and I continued life normally.

I hope this gives you some peace.

It may be useful to explore what a "criminal record" is, because there is no agreed definition. To put it bluntly, if you are convicted of a criminal offence, even a Bylaw one, in the Magistrates' Court, your offence is a matter of record. The Court keeps a record and it will be searchable by anyone with access to a legal archive. In 200 years, someone will be able to pull a (metaphorical!) dusty book off a shelf and there will be a record of your offence. Sometimes, newspapers will report on Magistrates' Court cases and train companies may even publish names and addresses of people convicted of Bylaw offences in court.

What bothers most people is whether the offence will show up on a Standard DBS Check. A Bylaw offence will not.

It may show, but only in very rare circumstances where the conviction is relevant to the job role applied for, on an Enhanced DBS Check which includes intelligence collected from myriad sources, not just the PNC.

It will be absolutely known about if you apply for a job which requires Developed Vetting or other niche and significant security clearance.

Will I have to declare this to my current job if I do get convicted?

You should check your contract of employment and, if you have one, consult your trade union. Some employers do require you to inform them of convictions in court.

 

[Vero]

That's not correct. Bylaw offences are criminal matters, which is why they are prosecuted in the Magistrates' Court.


This is true, they do not end up on the Police National Computer (PNC) as they are deemed so minor to be "non recordable".

Regulation of Railways Act offences are recordable - these require intent to be proven. TfL tend to go for Bylaw convictions probably for the ease of collecting evidence as there is no intent needed for Bylaw matters.


It may be useful to explore what a "criminal record" is, because there is no agreed definition. To put it bluntly, if you are convicted of a criminal offence, even a Bylaw one, in the Magistrates' Court, your offence is a matter of record. The Court keeps a record and it will be searchable by anyone with access to a legal archive. In 200 years, someone will be able to pull a (metaphorical!) dusty book off a shelf and there will be a record of your offence. Sometimes, newspapers will report on Magistrates' Court cases and train companies may even publish names and addresses of people convicted of Bylaw offences in court.

What bothers most people is whether the offence will show up on a Standard DBS Check. A Bylaw offence will not.

It may show, but only in very rare circumstances where the conviction is relevant to the job role applied for, on an Enhanced DBS Check which includes intelligence collected from myriad sources, not just the PNC.

It will be absolutely known about if you apply for a job which requires Developed Vetting or other niche and significant security clearance.



You should check your contract of employment and, if you have one, consult your trade union. Some employers do require you to inform them of convictions in court.

I think you may be overthinking this.

A DBS check will not pick this type of conviction. It is a very minor offence.

I did inform my employer about this matter and I am still employed, bearing in mind that my job is pretty serious (won't go into details).
As long as you are honest and transparent with your employer it should be fine.

I wish I received this info when I was going through it. It was very stressful, so I just hope I get to help someone.
I would advice EVERYONE to just spent that extra ££ for a valid ticket OR oyster card.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think you may be overthinking this.

A DBS check will not pick this type of conviction. It is a very minor offence.

It's not overthinking, it's correcting your assertion that a criminal offence is a civil matter, and outlining in which cases your criminal record is likely to come back to bite you.

As I have said in the post you quoted, a *Standard* DBS will not pick up your Bylaw conviction, that is correct - and will almost never show on an Enhanced DBS. However, the record remains a matter of public record and, if you are required to inform your employer of the conviction, there are ways and means for them to find out, either by them conducting a more thorough check, or by accident, like reading it in the local news.

The fact you haven't been personally affected and your employer was happy for you to continue working (which is good, btw!) is a data point and not comprehensive advice.

 

[pedr]

To try to make things clear there are some related but not identical aspects to this:

• Offences under the by-laws are criminal offences. Being convicted of one means a person has been convicted of a criminal offence.
• In most cases, by-law offences will not be recorded on a national system, and will not be returned on DBS checks and similar, though there are exceptions.
• Most employers and other interested parties acting within the UK are prohibited from asking about ‘spent’ convictions (or expecting a historically accurate answer if they do ask) under the terms of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. An offence punished by a fine is spent one year after the date of the conviction.
• Before that year is over, and after that year if asked by someone who does not have to abide by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act provisions [such as an employer for a job which is exempt due to its sensitive nature, or where the organisation asking is not British/acting in the UK] a person with a by-law conviction should disclose it if they wish to answer in a way which isn’t dishonest.

There is information and advice on disclosing convictions etc available from Unlock: https://unlock.org.uk/

 

[some bloke]

You could write down what happened and what was said, in as much detail as possible which seems potentially relevant, before memories fade more. Please bear in mind that memory can deceive.

If you are eligible for a pass and haven't already applied, it might help if you do.

The fact that a conviction is for a byelaw offence does not mean an employer won't ask questions about the circumstances, including matters related to whether the employee or potential employee acted dishonestly.

We might think that in many situations a responsible employer would ask such questions (subject to any relevant provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act about "spent" convictions).

Employers could see shiftiness or lack of openness as worse than both the conviction and the offence actually committed.

 

[gray1404]

If you are taken to court and you are on a low income or benefits is important you make the course aware of this using the necessary paperwork. Otherwise they will assume average earnings and the fine you receive maybe higher. Likewise if you are on an above average income you might wish to not declare your income so the court only seems average earnings.

If you are required to pay a fine by the court it will be possible for you to arrange a payment plan.

 

[Titfield]

Employers could see shiftiness or lack of openness as worse than both the conviction and the offence actually committed.

Yes a failure to declare or disclose is often treated as a more serious issue by employers because an employer having asked the question and the employee failing to declare or disclose goes directly to intent, honesty and truthfulness. It can not be accidental not to disclose or declare (because employers will say if you are unsure you should declare) and because whilst the original offence may have been sometime in the past the failure to disclose is in the present. Many job application forms contain declarations which you have to sign that you have answered all questions truthfully and honestly.

Some employers do draw a distinction as to the role the potential employee is applying for. If cash handling is involved then a stronger line will usually be taken. The employers insurance may include a clause that would exclude cover if an employee has a conviction for certain offences.

 

[Haywain]

If you are required to pay a fine by the court it will be possible for you to arrange a payment plan.

It may be possible but I don't think it is by any means a certainty.

 

[throwaway3457]

I received this letter in the post today. Any advice, does this tell you anything about the direction they’re going in?

 

[AlterEgo]

This is their standard letter. Use caution - the letter does not specify any allegation nor does it suggest which offence you are suspected of.

It's basically a "hello yeah you did a bad thing recently, please tell us about it". No no no.

You should admit nothing and write something along the lines of:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your letter of (DATE).

I was stopped by one of your representatives at (STATION) on (DATE), and have been expecting your letter since.

Your letter asks me to comment about an offence but does not state what, if any, offences you suspect me of. I would be grateful if you could state which offences you suspect me of by reply, so I may make a response which will be of some substance.

Kind regards,

etc.



Then wait for their reply.

 

[some bloke]

You should admit nothing and write something along the lines of:. ...what, if any, offences you suspect me of...

I'm not clear what that would achieve, and why it wouldn't antagonise needlessly. Isn't the kind of offence obvious, especially given the admission?

She asked if I know I cannot transfer cards to different people and I said yes

Why would they not write back saying there may be evidence to suggest an offence under the Byelaws [17(1) or 18(1)] or [section 5(3)(a) of] the 1889 Act, and/or "the case may be suitable for a Fraud Act prosecution" - which leaves @throwaway3457 no further forward?

@throwaway3457 , what you write may depend on the details of what happened and what they and you said.

 

[throwaway3457]

I'm not clear what that would achieve, and why it wouldn't antagonise needlessly. Isn't the kind of offence obvious, especially given the admission?

Why would they not write back saying there may be evidence to suggest an offence under the Byelaws [17(1) or 18(1)] or [section 5(3)(a) of] the 1889 Act, and/or "the case may be suitable for a Fraud Act prosecution" - which leaves @throwaway3457 no further forward?

@throwaway3457 , what you write may depend on the details of what happened and what they and you said.

I admitted to using the pass ‘a couple times when I had forgot my oyster/bank card due to moving house a lot in the past year’ - I have moved 4 times in less than 9 months due to cost of living etc and can prove this