Birmingham New Street Gates

[YellowBrick]

I've just changed at Birmingham New Street; my first time there in years. Imagine my confusion when, on changing from platform 1 to 11, it appears I have to gate-out, then gate back in, all on the same concourse! Talk about absurd.

What was the planning meeting for that? "Manager 1: You know what I thinking passengers want? More hassle and complexity while connecting in one of the busiest stations in the country." "Manager 2: Brilliant! And just think of all the people we'll get to have working for us." "Manager 3: Payrises all round!"

UK Rail moto: Assume passengers are criminals. I guess this is in line with that obnoxious "see it say it, sorted" thing that's everywhere constantly.

I can only assume this is some sort of jobs-creation program. All you have to do is wave some random piece of paper at the gate-guards and they just open the gate for you. It's a prime example of a "bull**** job". No wonder rail tickets are so expensive.

(Station Map: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/images/content/rsz_12birmingham_new_street_1080x1920px (1).jpg - looks like I should have used the Red Zone for no gates, though that doesn't obviate my point and it's unreasonable to expect any non-regular traveller to know that.)

Edit: Seems the forum doesn't like the wikipedia link, but "bull**** jobs" is an actual thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can change at the B end without going through gates. There is now signage saying this but it is I guess not clear enough.

It's like this because it was the only way for them to have exits on three sides other than having to bridge one of the exits over it which would be faff for a lot more people as the Bullring side exit is one of the busiest and it'd be this one.

 

[YellowBrick]

You can change at the B end without going through gates. There is now signage saying this but it is I guess not clear enough.

When you've got off a busy train with a hundred other people there's no scope for reading detailed signage (I didn't, and I'm pretty thorough about looking for signs). Also, you certainly don't want to be walking counter-flow down those skinny platforms to the other exit.

 

[Falcon1200]

I have also heard the issue announced on approaching trains, although clearly the information does need to be presented far more clearly.

 

[edwin_m]

The signage at concourse level is also bad. You can see, for example, a huge sign with a 6 and head towards it, only to find there is a glass screen blocking your way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you've got off a busy train with a hundred other people there's no scope for reading detailed signage (I didn't, and I'm pretty thorough about looking for signs). Also, you certainly don't want to be walking counter-flow down those skinny platforms to the other exit.

What do you propose as an alternative? Closing the Bullring exit, which is the busiest one and is the one in the way of making the A end continuous? Closing the A end entirely? Those are the only two possibilities. There's not enough height at that end to put something like a footbridge between the two.

I would agree the signage saying that those changing should go to the B end should be clearer. It's definitely there but it could for instance be bright yellow.

The only other way (bar not having gates at all) would have been, when building it, to have an extra circulation floor between platforms and concourse, but that would to me have been worse. Or only have the B end passageway, but that would also have been worse as it'd have been more crowded.

You can't always build perfect solutions when refurbishing a station.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It is a mandatory announcement for WMR/LNWR trains to say about connections using the B end lifts/escalators. The layout is useful for far more people than it annoys, even if it's not perfect

You can't always build perfect solutions when refurbishing a station.

Indeed, the only other option was to keep it as it was and have the A end lounges the barriers to that side, menacing the entire atrium area was within the gated section.

Would also mean that they was no through route from Bullring side to Victoria Square end and vice versa, so the current layout is clearly the better option

 

[duncanp]

What was the planning meeting for that? "Manager 1: You know what I thinking passengers want? More hassle and complexity while connecting in one of the busiest stations in the country." "Manager 2: Brilliant! And just think of all the people we'll get to have working for us." "Manager 3: Payrises all round!"

UK Rail moto: Assume passengers are criminals. I guess this is in line with that obnoxious "see it say it, sorted" thing that's everywhere constantly.

I can only assume this is some sort of jobs-creation program. All you have to do is wave some random piece of paper at the gate-guards and they just open the gate for you. It's a prime example of a "bull**** job". No wonder rail tickets are so expensive.

(Station Map: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/images/content/rsz_12birmingham_new_street_1080x1920px (1).jpg - looks like I should have used the Red Zone for no gates, though that doesn't obviate my point and it's unreasonable to expect any non-regular traveller to know that.)

Edit: Seems the forum doesn't like the wikipedia link, but "bull**** jobs" is an actual thing.

Rubbish

As @Bletchleyite says, it is the Bull Ring exit onto Smallbrook Queensway, which is the busiest exit of the station, which is in the way of making the concourse at the A (Southern) end of the platforms continuous and barrier free.

There can and should be better signage to assist passengers, and guards and train managers should announce that is it easier changing at the B end of the platforms on approach to Birmingham New Street to help those who are unfamiliar with the station.

Yes it can be confusing if you are unfamiliar with the station, but Network Rail have done the best they can, and the new station is certainly a vast improvement on the dingy depressing old station.

 

[Bald Rick]

Funny!

I changed from P10 to P1 earlier this week, with ease, and without having to go through the gates. For the first time since the rebuild, funnily enough.

I guess it just depends how observant you are.

 

[edwin_m]

Funny!

I changed from P10 to P1 earlier this week, with ease, and without having to go through the gates. For the first time since the rebuild, funnily enough.

I guess it just depends how observant you are.

Anyone who reads threads like this will almost certainly remember to go to the B end or expect to go through two sets of barriers. But that won't be the case for many "normals".

 

[MCR247]

WMR manually announcing it on approach definitely helps, especially as they can say things like ‘turn left when you get off the train’ etc

 

[pdeaves]

The gate line arrangement is fine for using New Street station as an origin or destination.

Unless I am much mistaken, the announcements about using B end bridge, etc., are more recent than the station rebuild itself, only being introduced after the benefit of real experience.

Speculation on my part: the rebuild was designed on the basis of more people actually going to/from Birmingham, than was actually the case and fewer people changing trains than was actually the case. The whole rebuild may have been designed differently if, say, they assumed that 95% of passengers only wanted to change trains.

 

[Dr Day]

This has probably come up before, but is there a public right of way that needed to be maintained?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

This has probably come up before, but is there a public right of way that needed to be maintained?

I don't believe so given there wasn't such a route in the previous incarnation of the station.

 

[Nottingham59]

It just needs clearer and more prominent signage at platform level.

 

[Bald Rick]

The whole rebuild may have been designed differently if, say, they assumed that 95% of passengers only wanted to change trains.

But 95% of people are not changing trains. In fact it’s nearly the opposite - about 85% are entering / exiting, and 15% changing.

 

[midland1]

This has probably come up before, but is there a public right of way that needed to be maintained?

In the first rebuild the public right of way was maintained above the station in the palisade shopping centre I would think that is the same now or something like that.

In the first rebuild the public right of way was maintained above the station in the palisade shopping centre I would think that is the same now or something like that.

Just had a look at Network Rail's map of New Street, the right of way is now back through the station from Stephenson Street to a set of steps down to Station Street.

 

[william.martin]

You can change at the B end without going through gates. There is now signage saying this but it is I guess not clear enough.

It's like this because it was the only way for them to have exits on three sides other than having to bridge one of the exits over it which would be faff for a lot more people as the Bullring side exit is one of the busiest and it'd be this one.

When I was on a 350 arriving there it anounced it on the automated PA.

 

[BeijingDave]

Anyone who reads threads like this will almost certainly remember to go to the B end or expect to go through two sets of barriers. But that won't be the case for many "normals".

Surely the easiest/most obvious thing to do would be to start having massive signs at our stations with an 'Exit' arrow in one direction, and a 'Transfer Passengers' sign in the other direction, as they do in airports and on major Chinese stations (we may have invented the railways, but there are things we can learn from others, especially those dealing with huge passenger numbers in 32-platform stations).

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Surely the easiest/most obvious thing to do would be to start having massive signs at our stations with an 'Exit' arrow in one direction, and a 'Transfer Passengers' sign in the other direction, as they do in airports and on major Chinese stations (we may have invented the railways, but there are things we can learn from others, especially those dealing with huge passenger numbers in 32-platform stations).

The platforms are too narrow to have conflict of paths like this. It's not as if you can't get to other platforms from any of the 3 exits to the concourse (or bridge), just that 1 end makes it slightly inconvenient. There is already concern from train crew regarding number of passengers in the PTI due to the lack of space and passengers going in different directions

 

[Bletchleyite]

The platforms are too narrow to have conflict of paths like this. It's not as if you can't get to other platforms from any of the 3 exits to the concourse (or bridge), just that 1 end makes it slightly inconvenient. There is already concern from train crew regarding number of passengers in the PTI due to the lack of space and passengers going in different directions

This signage exists, it just isn't clear enough.

 

[satisnek]

I agree, it's a mess.

My own view on this is that it's because what's now the 'B' end was constructed and opened first (with the bottoms of the escalators just a hop, skip and a jump from the Navigation Street Bridge!), after which the original part of the station was redeveloped as, well, mostly air with the pre-1967 LNWR/Midland divide reinstated. Now, I realise that this would have cost more and caused a lot more disruption, but if passengers access had been confined to the Navigation Street bridge and a temporary footbridge at the 'A' end during reconstruction, this would have left a 'clean slate' on which a much more practical layout could have been built.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I agree, it's a mess.

My own view on this is that it's because what's now the 'B' end was constructed and opened first (with the bottoms of the escalators just a hop, skip and a jump from the Navigation Street Bridge!), after which the original part of the station was redeveloped as, well, mostly air with the pre-1967 LNWR/Midland divide reinstated. Now, I realise that this would have cost more and caused a lot more disruption, but if passengers access had been confined to the Navigation Street bridge and a temporary footbridge at the 'A' end during reconstruction, this would have left a 'clean slate' on which a much more practical layout could have been built.

Yes, but what would that look like. You still want access to the station from Stephenson St, Bullring and above from Grand Central (was Pallisades). Plus there's Station St to consider.

You either have the current approach where the main atrium is not within the barriers which increases space and footfall for shops/eateries or you have the atrium barriered.

Personally I much prefer this layout, but I know not everyone will agree

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but what would that look like. You still want access to the station from Stephenson St, Bullring and above from Grand Central (was Pallisades). Plus there's Station St to consider.

You either have the current approach where the main atrium is not within the barriers which increases space and footfall for shops/eateries or you have the atrium barriered.

Personally I much prefer this layout, but I know not everyone will agree

I think I'd prefer it as it is than gating the atrium. For instance you'd have to find somewhere new for the booking office and TVMs, and the direct access to/from the shopping centre would have to go.

The only sensible alternative I can see is to extend the gated A ends a bit so they would be within the atrium so a footbridge could be provided between the two halves, but to be honest I'd still go through the gates on the flat, it isn't a problem to do that and you have to to change at many termini anyway. Indeed I often change at the A end to avoid the crowds, particularly the toilets are quieter. But if people really hate it then making the signs clearer would help. Yes, the platforms are narrow but there's rarely a train boarding/emptying on both sides at once.

 

[GoneSouth]

What do you propose as an alternative? Closing the Bullring exit, which is the busiest one and is the one in the way of making the A end continuous? Closing the A end entirely? Those are the only two possibilities. There's not enough height at that end to put something like a footbridge between the two.

I would agree the signage saying that those changing should go to the B end should be clearer. It's definitely there but it could for instance be bright yellow.

The only other way (bar not having gates at all) would have been, when building it, to have an extra circulation floor between platforms and concourse, but that would to me have been worse. Or only have the B end passageway, but that would also have been worse as it'd have been more crowded.

You can't always build perfect solutions when refurbishing a station.

You maybe not be able to design perfect solutions at complex stations, but to remove a simple option that was already there and replace it with an over complicated, badly signed and in my opinion not very well lit option was just stupid. All for John Lewis who stayed for about 5 years then cleared off. I hate the place now, it used to be so much easier.

I’m in a hurry to make a connection, do I

• Fight past 150 people on an overcrowded platform and walk to the west end of the station
• Go up the first set of stairs i find then faff about with barriers and queue (twice)

I do everything I can to avoid the place but sometimes it’s a necessary evil.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You maybe not be able to design perfect solutions at complex stations, but to remove a simple option that was already there

So they've gone from a station with one bridge to a station with two. You can still do exactly what you used to do by using the B end tunnel. It's wider and has better facilities, too.

OK, the old tunnel was where the A end is now, but how does that matter?

and replace it with an over complicated, badly signed and in my opinion not very well lit option was just stupid. All for John Lewis who stayed for about 5 years then cleared off. I hate the place now, it used to be so much easier.

I think it's great, it has a lovely atmosphere up top, a very pleasant place to spend some time and unrivalled facilities for a UK station.

I’m in a hurry to make a connection, do I

• Fight past 150 people on an overcrowded platform and walk to the west end of the station
• Go up the first set of stairs i find then faff about with barriers and queue (twice)

I do everything I can to avoid the place but sometimes it’s a necessary evil.

Your option before would have been "fight past 150 people on an overcrowded platform and walk to the east end of the station".

Don't forget there's also the second B end bridge as long as you don't want P1. That was going to be removed but has been kept.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m in a hurry to make a connection, do I

• Fight past 150 people on an overcrowded platform and walk to the west end of the station
• Go up the first set of stairs i find then faff about with barriers and queue (twice)

These circumstances only apply if:

1) your inbound train arrives at the east end (a end) of the station, AND
2) your outbound train is not from the same group of platforms as your inbound train (1-5 or 6-12), AND
3) the station is busy.

At a guess, this applies to perhaps 20% of interchanging passengers, which is 3% of all passengers using New St.

 

[GoneSouth]

These circumstances only apply if:

1) your inbound train arrives at the east end (a end) of the station, AND
2) your outbound train is not from the same group of platforms as your inbound train (1-5 or 6-12), AND
3) the station is busy.

At a guess, this applies to perhaps 20% of interchanging passengers, which is 3% of all passengers using New St.

3% of a very large number is probably still a large number

I’m not saying there aren’t alternatives, I just preferred changing there before the rebuild. I’m not going there as a destination so the range of restaurants and bars isn’t off interest to me, I just want to make that 10 minute change easily without putting barriers (literally) in the way.

Perhaps I’ll go there one day and have time to enjoy the ambiance, who knows, but for now my personal opinion is that it used to be easier to change trains there

 

[Bald Rick]

3% of a very large number is probably still a large number

About 3000 of the 100,000 people who use it each day. And I’d bet that most of those 3000 are fine with it, as they’ll be doing it regularly.

For what it’s worth, I much prefer the new station compared to the old. I missed countless trains in the 90s and 00s when interchanging due to the bridge being heaving. The new station is much, much less congested, and I find it much easier to change (Which I now use it for a few times a year). I will always change there rather than other options in the area (eg Tamworth, Birmingham Inter, Smethwick GB, Wolves) as it’s a much nicer environment. The exception is if I have more than 20 minutes between potential trains at Wolves, and I’m not working, in which case a trip to the Great Western PH is mandatory.

 

[Llanigraham]

3% of a very large number is probably still a large number

I’m not saying there aren’t alternatives, I just preferred changing there before the rebuild. I’m not going there as a destination so the range of restaurants and bars isn’t off interest to me, I just want to make that 10 minute change easily without putting barriers (literally) in the way.

Perhaps I’ll go there one day and have time to enjoy the ambiance, who knows, but for now my personal opinion is that it used to be easier to change trains there

So you want to go back to the 1960's?
What happened then cannot be compared to what happens now.
I've been using |New St for years and have never had a problem walking down to the B end, even during the morning rush, or having to go through all the gates, even when they reject my ticket.
Methinks you are in a very, very small minority.