Class 321 storage/scrapping

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ok, thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Mar 2023 ==


Past time? These units are just over 30 years old!!!

I meant they seem to have hung on for ages since the new GA fleet introduction began.

 

[Class15]

I meant they seem to have hung on for ages since the new GA fleet introduction began.

Oh, understood. Given your comments about the 313s, I assumed you just didn’t like BR trains.

 

[Wivenswold]

Going on gen/observations I've seen over the last week it appears only 308,309,314,326,328 are in service now. There's probably a few sitting spare that could sneak out if needed.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Going on gen/observations I've seen over the last week it appears only 308,309,314,326,328 are in service now. There's probably a few sitting spare that could sneak out if needed.

I'm not entirely surprised; fifteen units for three branch diagrams seems very excessive.

 

[Stew27005]

Going on gen/observations I've seen over the last week it appears only 308,309,314,326,328 are in service now. There's probably a few sitting spare that could sneak out if needed.

304 and 315 noted in wembley sidings on Tuesday.

 

[D1012]

Going on gen/observations I've seen over the last week it appears only 308,309,314,326,328 are in service now. There's probably a few sitting spare that could sneak out if needed.

312 on COL - WON yesterday, 29/03.

 

[86246]

Greater Anglia have announced that the last scheduled day of 321s in passenger service will be on Monday. They will be on the Colchester - Walton services.

Final phase of Greater Anglia’s new trains transition begins

www.greateranglia.co.uk

The final phase of Greater Anglia’s £1.4 billion fleet replacement programme begins next week. Monday 3 April will see the last pre-planned use of the remaining older Class 321 trains, after which just a handful of those electric trains will remain available for use, for a few more weeks, as short notice spare trains or to provide flexibility in the event of disruption or other unplanned developments.

Monday will see Class 321s scheduled to be used on services between Colchester and Walton-on-the-Naze throughout the day, so anyone wishing to take a last trip on one before they are withdrawn from regular service is encouraged to take a final trip whilst they can.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A bittersweet goodbye to units that have served the route well, but the good news is this shall mean the entire fleet replacement of 90, 153, 156, 170, 317, 321, 322, 360 and 379 with 720, 745 and 755 is complete. It took a while, but they replaced an enormous ageing fleet with a brand spanking new one, and I commend Greater Anglia for it.

 

[Class15]

A bittersweet goodbye to units that have served the route well, but the good news is this shall mean the entire fleet replacement of 90, 153, 156, 170, 317, 321, 322, 360 and 379 with 720, 745 and 755 is complete. It took a while, but they replaced an enormous ageing fleet with a brand spanking new one, and I commend Greater Anglia for it.

Enourmous ageing fleet? The 379s were 10 years old!!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Enourmous ageing fleet? The 379s were 10 years old!!!

That’s pernickety. They were a small part. On the whole, and you can discount the 170s/360s if you want, the fleet was old. The 317s forming the bulk of the West Anglia were old and knackered, the 321s weren’t knackered but were still old and would have been knackered by the end of the decade, the 90+MK3 sets were completely shot and the 153s and 156s are now old and the same 156s now full of holes.

 

[Class15]

That’s pernickety. They were a small part. On the whole, and you can discount the 170s/360s if you want, the fleet was old. The 317s forming the bulk of the West Anglia were old and knackered, the 321s weren’t knackered but were still old and would have been knackered by the end of the decade, the 90+MK3 sets were completely shot and the 153s and 156s are now old and the same 156s now full of holes.

Ok yes, apart from the 170s 360s and 379s it was ageing, however it’s worth saying that the new trains often have less facilities than the old ones, particularly on the Norwich route.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The 720s' seating layout is a downgrade to the 321's....

The 755's are a downgrade to the 90's + Mk3 sets

Even the 360's (in their earlier years) were good trains

I'm glad I don't commute on GA any more....

 

[60159]

A bittersweet goodbye to units that have served the route well, but the good news is this shall mean the entire fleet replacement of 90, 153, 156, 170, 317, 321, 322, 360 and 379 with 720, 745 and 755 is complete. It took a while, but they replaced an enormous ageing fleet with a brand spanking new one, and I commend Greater Anglia for it.

Are the 321s being replaced on thebranches by 720s or are there any755s which I think Sudbury has.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are the 321s being replaced on thebranches by 720s or are there any755s which I think Sudbury has.

Sudbury is unelectrified which is why 720s can't use it. Well, that's the primary reason, but also of importance is a 122m 5-720 would be too long for the branch, and indeed so is a 80m 755/4, hence why it's ran with a 755/3. It formerly had Sprinters.

There are quite considerably more 755s than there are 755 diagrams, or at least that was the case not so long ago anyway, and therefore many spares available. 755s were therefore often seen on the Harwich branch line during the early stages of the 720's introduction, to allow for a faster withdrawal of non-Renatus 321s and to compensate slightly for a slower acceptance of 720s, but 720s are the primary stock for the route.

I very much doubt you'll see 755s booked on Walton/Clacton/Braintree but never say never to them appearing very occasionally ad hoc I guess. Southend and Southminster I reckon you've got no chance.

 

[Class15]

The 720s' seating layout is a downgrade to the 321's....

The 755's are a downgrade to the 90's + Mk3 sets

Even the 360's (in their earlier years) were good trains

I'm glad I don't commute on GA any more....

I agree.

The difference in quality between old and new trains on GA is huge. They are just trying to cram more and more people in because the government won’t extend platforms or allow GA more trains.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 720s' seating layout is a downgrade to the 321's....

The 755's are a downgrade to the 90's + Mk3 sets

This is a very subjective, biased opinion based on personal taste, rather than fact.

 

[Class15]

This is a very subjective, biased opinion based on personal taste, rather than fact.
I disagree on both counts.

You’re saying that the 745s are better than the 90+Mk3 sets?

I can see why you don’t commute on GA.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You’re saying that the 745s are better than the 90+Mk3 sets?

I can see why you don’t commute on GA.

You have no knowledge of how or where I commute, though I have as matter of fact travelled on GA so often that I've been on all twenty 745s, all but three 755s, all thirty 379s, all thirty 360s, all 15 former GA 90s, all but three of the 117 321s, and my number of 720s for haulage is currently in the seventies. I've travelled on them enough to determine fairly how I feel about them, thanks. It really is down to personal opinion. The MK3s had toy seats and the 321 seats were difficult for me to sit in as a tall, thin person who felt slouched in them, and the originals had no airline seats with pull down tables.

Seat comfort and interior furnishings are subjective and you cannot say as a fact that a train is a downgrade based on that. Something like standing room, number of seats, carriage length, is not subjective but is fact, so is different.

That said, this is verging fast off topic.

 

[60159]

Sudbury is unelectrified which is why 720s can't use it. Well, that's the primary reason, but also of importance is a 122m 5-720 would be too long for the branch, and indeed so is a 80m 755/4, hence why it's ran with a 755/3. It formerly had Sprinters.

There are quite considerably more 755s than there are 755 diagrams, or at least that was the case not so long ago anyway, and therefore many spares available. 755s were therefore often seen on the Harwich branch line during the early stages of the 720's introduction, to allow for a faster withdrawal of non-Renatus 321s and to compensate slightly for a slower acceptance of 720s, but 720s are the primary stock for the route.

I very much doubt you'll see 755s booked on Walton/Clacton/Braintree but never say never to them appearing very occasionally ad hoc I guess. Southend and Southminster I reckon you've got no chance.

Many thanks for that.

 

[Wivenswold]

I've already said my goodbye to these venerable old units in January but to be honest, I struggle to feel too much love for the Renatus units. Throughout my 30 years of commuting on the GEML the 321s were always my least favourite unit of those available, 3rd to the 309, 2nd to the 312s and 360s.
The only complaints I have about the 720s is they aren't low-floor like all new trains should be and the 3+2 configurations. As modern trains go, they're pretty good. But I'd take Stadlers on the Clacton line over Aventras

 

[43102EMR]

all thirty 360s,

Hate to be “that guy”, but GA only had 21 360s. Even then, only 26 have ever been built…

 

[Wivenswold]

They nearly had 24 Desiros before those meanies at the DfT stepped-in and reduced the 2002 order.

 

[D365]

This is a very subjective, biased opinion based on personal taste, rather than fact.

It really is down to personal opinion.

Make your mind up!

But it's good to see that Greater Anglia has put out a press release for the final scheduled Class 321 operations. By comparison, we had one day's notice [courtesy of GTR's Twitter] for the final day of Class 365, in passenger service, anywhere.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I've already said my goodbye to these venerable old units in January but to be honest, I struggle to feel too much love for the Renatus units. Throughout my 30 years of commuting on the GEML the 321s were always my least favourite unit of those available, 3rd to the 309, 2nd to the 312s and 360s.
The only complaints I have about the 720s is they aren't low-floor like all new trains should be and the 3+2 configurations. As modern trains go, they're pretty good. But I'd take Stadlers on the Clacton line over Aventras

I also said goodbye to them towards the end of last year; although yes, the Renatus units are just not the same. I used to commute on GE a lot at the time when the 305's/307's were being withdrawn (and 321's introduced) and spent 30+ years visiting granny in Clacton/Frinton travelling on 309's, 312's, 360's and 321's. I will miss them.

Travelled on a 720 yesterday and was was also noted how my arm kept getting bashed as people walked through the train. Sitting next to daughter in an aisle seat.

Keeping on topic; spied 314 and 308 at Clacton yesterday. Will these run again I wonder?

 

[JonathanH]

Harwich line seems to be 4-car units today. Southminster and the Walton-on-the Naze shuttle are 720s.

Greater Anglia indicated a Walton-on-the-Naze farewell tomorrow so the last operation is presumably the 2350 arrival there tomorrow.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Make your mind up!

But it's good to see that Greater Anglia has put out a press release for the final scheduled Class 321 operations. By comparison, we had one day's notice [courtesy of GTR's Twitter] for the final day of Class 365, in passenger service, anywhere.

No, you have missed the point entirely of what I was saying. I’m saying it’s down to personal opinion, but saying that personal opinions should not be presented as facts. Both posts that you have quoted by me are saying the same thing, not contradicting each other as you seem to think that they are. I’m saying it is down to personal taste whether or not someone personally perceives a stock to be a downgrade, but it cannot be said point blank as a fact a train is a downgrade based on those personal opinions.

 

[86246]

Harwich line seems to be 4-car units today. Southminster and the Walton-on-the Naze shuttle are 720s.

Greater Anglia indicated a Walton-on-the-Naze farewell tomorrow so the last operation is presumably the 2350 arrival there tomorrow.

I have just travelled through Manningtree and it was a 755 on the branch service.

 

[JonathanH]

I have just travelled through Manningtree and it was a 755 on the branch service.

Ah, I did wonder, thanks for confirming. So, tomorrow really is a one-off last day.

 

[D365]

No, you have missed the point entirely of what I was saying. I’m saying it’s down to personal opinion, but saying that personal opinions should not be presented as facts. Both posts that you have quoted by me are saying the same thing, not contradicting each other as you seem to think that they are. I’m saying it is down to personal taste whether or not someone personally perceives a stock to be a downgrade, but it cannot be said point blank as a fact a train is a downgrade based on those personal opinions.

About that...

The MK3s had toy seats

Although I will concede that seats in the Mk3-derived EMUs were not pleasant.

 

[CEPG]

Thought I'd also share here, but I've been given permission once more to make some "last day" souvenirs available to enthusiasts travelling, similar to our involvement with 317 farewell. however, Not been allowed to make a headboard or anything else but as the Railtour is happening at end of the month not overly fussed. £5 cash only with all funds raised towards our Heritage EMU projects