SouthEastern fleet replacement updates

[MattRat]

Knowing the DfT could change quickly

DFT more likely will just want the 313s scrapped with no replacement.

 

[NSEWonderer]

If you mean the distinctive high pitched, metallic, chiming sound you can sometimes hear from the bogies, they’ve always done that!

From as far as I remember and that being 2002 when I used to go down on the Peckham rye to Vic route the 465/2s weren't whining like that or over the Plumstead joints in the way they have been in the last decade.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The Networkers are very good metro units.
All they need is some tlc. I'd rather take a 465 over a 376 or an Aventra tbh.

The unrefurbished BR 481s on the Berlin S Bahn aren't hugely different tbh

Indeed still scored highly in MR's golden spanner awards for 2022 with mileage between incidents that many modern units still don't get anywhere near.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd rather take a 465 over a 376 or an Aventra tbh.

You’re gonna quote me to tell me this again, what you’ve already told me seven times?

It’s quite funny because before I saw this, I was literally coming onto this thread to say: I feel like people (certainly enthusiasts anyway) either love one of the 376/465 and then hate the other, for example I’d take a 376 anyday where as I know @cactustwirly would aim for a Networker.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2023 ==

If you mean the distinctive high pitched, metallic, chiming sound you can sometimes hear from the bogies, they’ve always done that!

The sound that tends to get on my nerves is when on 465/0/1 going over the bridge to Charing Cross you hear the Hitachi motors chiming up as if to accelerate and then sharply decline again so it makes a neurrrrrrrrRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr sound, up and down like a yo yo, every few seconds. I seem to remember you saying you used to drive them (I think?) so you probably know the sound I mean. I assume it’s just the throttle being maintained cautiously so that the train enters the station at a suitable speed.

1:15:34-1:15:37 The up and down sound:

 

[CFRAIL]

The remaining 707's will move across before the end of the year and there's a plan in place to refresh 376's. I believe they'll want a 700/707 type of replacement for Networkers. In fact, I think longer term SE will operate 700/707 on all routes, both metro and mainline.

 

[PGAT]

The remaining 707's will move across before the end of the year

Source?

 

[rdlover777]

In fact, I think longer term SE will operate 700/707 on all routes, both metro and mainline.

Would a 700/707 even be able to cope with mainline working?

 

[Trainbike46]

Would a 700/707 even be able to cope with mainline working?

why would it not be able to?

 

[urpert]

Would a 700/707 even be able to cope with mainline working?

They seem happy enough on the ECML.

 

[43066]

I think longer term SE will operate 700/707 on all routes, both metro and mainline.

Where do you get that idea from? The 375s are only mid life and the 700 production line (AIUI) closed after the 717s were built.

There aren’t anywhere near enough 707s in existence to replace SE’s metro fleet.

 

[NSEWonderer]

The remaining 707's will move across before the end of the year and there's a plan in place to refresh 376's. I believe they'll want a 700/707 type of replacement for Networkers. In fact, I think longer term SE will operate 700/707 on all routes, both metro and mainline.

Don't think SE will be getting their hands on any 700s and as said above there won't be enough 707s to cover the networker fleet. I'm mot aware of Thameslink having a surplus of 700s to move over

 

[brad465]

Don't think SE will be getting their hands on any 700s and as said above there won't be enough 707s to cover the networker fleet. I'm mot aware of Thameslink having a surplus of 700s to move over

I think the OP was implying that a replacement would a "700 type", not 700s themselves. However if the technology/latest fleet design has moved on then that type of replacement won't happen. There's also the matter of SE wanting something, but that doesn't mean they will get it, given we're talking about DfT approval.

 

[PGAT]

The 700s will be of surplus after the May timetable change but they will absolutely never move over. The only thing within reasonable possibility happening is the final 707s arriving

 

[theageofthetra]

I think the OP was implying that a replacement would a "700 type", not 700s themselves. However if the technology/latest fleet design has moved on then that type of replacement won't happen. There's also the matter of SE wanting something, but that doesn't mean they will get it, given we're talking about DfT approval.

Some 700's or similar to do the Tunbridge Wells stoppers would eliminate the need for guards at Hildenborough and High Brooms. That would appeal to the DFT.

 

[brad465]

Some 700's or similar to do the Tunbridge Wells stoppers would eliminate the need for guards at Hildenborough and High Brooms. That would appeal to the DFT.

Or just getting the 707s fitted with toilets and moving them over to that route, which would be more appealing as presumably a minor internal refit is cheaper short term than a new fleet order, however necessary it is.

 

[JonathanH]

Some 700's or similar to do the Tunbridge Wells stoppers would eliminate the need for guards at Hildenborough and High Brooms. That would appeal to the DFT.

If that was true, it would be possible to use 377/5s, which also have DOO cameras.

 

[CFRAIL]

Source?

Told the other day by a SE director

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2023 ==

Where do you get that idea from? The 375s are only mid life and the 700 production line (AIUI) closed after the 717s were built.

There aren’t anywhere near enough 707s in existence to replace SE’s metro fleet.

Longer term as in 10+ years down the line

 

[43066]

Told the other day by a SE director

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the remaining 707s will be coming to SE. The timescale depends on SWR being able to release them, though.

Longer term as in 10+ years down the line

They aren’t going to be building any more of either! They’ll presumably muddle through with what they have until the networkers are replaced (which won’t be with either 700s or 707s). As noted above, even after the networkers are replaced, they’ll potentially still have two or three microfleets on the metro side, depending on whether the 376s are retained for metro work.

The 375 fleet will most likely be replaced in 15-20 years time by whether the then current equivalent is. It won’t be 700s!

I assume it’s just the throttle being maintained cautiously so that the train enters the station at a suitable speed.

It was the driver notching-on to keep the speed up, yes.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I think the OP was implying that a replacement would a "700 type", not 700s themselves. However if the technology/latest fleet design has moved on then that type of replacement won't happen. There's also the matter of SE wanting something, but that doesn't mean they will get it, given we're talking about DfT approval.

Ah I see

 

[Mikey C]

Why would Kent Coast services use a 700 type train, with massive standing areas for operating through the Thameslink Core, designed pre Covid when commuting numbers were expected to rise and rise?

You imagine that the 375s along with the Southern 377s and SWR 450s and 444s will eventually be replaced with something similar.

 

[rdlover777]

why would it not be able to?

im more referring to the interior configuration

 

[ComUtoR]

If that was true, it would be possible to use 377/5s, which also have DOO cameras.

It could happen in the blink of an eye. There is simply no political will to do so.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

OT but related, presume there is no will to electrify Ashford - Hastings?

 

[JonathanH]

OT but related, presume there is no will to electrify Ashford - Hastings?

Equally no money, or desire to transfer it to Southeastern.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I appreciate it's not in the public domain yet but have there been any expressions of interest for new rolling stock?

 

[Wivenswold]

OT but related, presume there is no will to electrify Ashford - Hastings?

There's no desire to extend 3rd rail anywhere, all electrification in Britain will be AC OHL in future.
The marsh line will most likely see bi-modes or battery units when the Turbostars become life expired at the end of this decade.

 

[PGAT]

There were proposals to electrify the Marshlink line and link it up to the HS1 at Ashford, but it’s probably getting too off topic for this thread

 

[Bald Rick]

OT but related, presume there is no will to electrify Ashford - Hastings?

Equally no money, or desire to transfer it to Southeastern.

or any need to #batteries

 

[Jammy Dodger]

With the exception of Alstom (offering a 701-type Aventra, possibly a 702...), is there any manufacturer who can produce enough of an "existing design" to provide for the contract?

 

[Doomotron]

With the exception of Alstom (offering a 701-type Aventra, possibly a 702...), is there any manufacturer who can produce enough of an "existing design" to provide for the contract?

No, unless Hitachi offer the AT200 (even if the AT100 would be more appropriate). That said, an AT200 could replace the 377s more acceptably than a 465/9.