Should Oxford have a tramway?

[BrianW]

Much as I would love to see trams in Oxford (and after all, we had them before!) I agree that the city, and therefore its traffic flows, are far too small to justify the cost.

With a) I agree except that if you are going to extend the current Chiltern Railways service from London Marylebone, you are going to need to completely rebuild Oxford Railway Station in order to allow platforms 1 & 2 to become through platforms.

b) Good idea, although I'm also of the opinion of having another station in the Cowley-Blackbird Leys area. Certainly useful for match days!

I also wonder what @BrianW and @Parebunks have to say seeing that the two of them also live in Oxford just like me!

Of course, Oxford had tramways in the past: http://www.oxfordhistory.org.uk/high/history/transport_1905.html

and has its share of proposals for the future eg an Oxford 'Metro': https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1...metro-include-electric-trams-new-train-links/

Perhaps, as IIRC Tim Dunn has pointed out regarding trams in London, esp the Kingsway tunnel, trams could run with power supply from in the road 'in town' (thus 'protecting the historic environment' from unsightly infrastructure, and overhead wires beyond.

I'm not sure but I think the Oxford tram routes went by-and-large similarly to the current P&R routes, i.e north-south and east-west crossing in the city centre at Carfax.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Of course, Oxford had tramways in the past: http://www.oxfordhistory.org.uk/high/history/transport_1905.html

and has its share of proposals for the future eg an Oxford 'Metro': https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1...metro-include-electric-trams-new-train-links/

Perhaps, as IIRC Tim Dunn has pointed out regarding trams in London, esp the Kingsway tunnel, trams could run with power supply from in the road 'in town' (thus 'protecting the historic environment' from unsightly infrastructure, and overhead wires beyond.

I'm not sure but I think the Oxford tram routes went by-and-large similarly to the current P&R routes, i.e north-south and east-west crossing in the city centre at Carfax.

Another solution to avoid using overhead wires in the city centre is Alstom's APS (Alimentation Par Sol - Ground electrification) used in Bordeaux, France (and other cities). Such system works as essentially a third rail, but unlike the traditional third rail used in South East England & Merseyrail, it's only energised / live when the tram is passing through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_APS for more info

A limitation I believe (I might be wrong though!) is that if the APS option was chosen, then you'd have no choice but to order Alstom Citadis trams (like the ones used in Nottingham and other European cities)

 

[goldisgood]

As a resident I don't think I'm saying much which others haven't said already but anyway - the city is certainly too small to justify such a network in the current state of things, with the Cowley Road and London Road corridors the only ones which could really justify such investment (which I doubt they could), however as also mentioned the city does benefit from having clear radial routes to convert to trams in the distant future. Certainly if this was to be looked at several decades down the line I would guess that Cowley Road will be most viable due to having the clearest path to conversion (clear corridor of the Station - City - Cowley Road - Cowley - Blackbird Leys, with only one other main bus route serving the corridor) as opposed to London Road which sees the main route to Barton, but complicated more by having frequent overlapping services to Thornhill, Wheatley and Thame which offer a less easy path for conversion. Money would be far better spent on small improvements to bus services, but I'd hope the bus gates will help with this by reducing traffic through some of the biggest congestion hotspots at The Plain, Frideswide Square and Marston Ferry Road, which would be as much of a challenge for trams to negotiate as buses.

Dual-door buses would be great to see on the core city network, with many routes seeing large numbers of overlapping flows (looking at the few cross-city services and Cowley Road particularly), but definitely aren't necessary on the interurban services which need the extra seating far more. Even if there was any money for trams, I would argue it's far better spent on a bigger city (ie Leeds or Bristol), with other funding to secure and improve bus services across the rest of the county in the direction they are currently headed, particularly across the Vale which has seen huge improvements in bus provision in recent years.
IMO the bus network as it stands is very well run by UK standards, and I'm sure the electric buses will be well-recieved, however there has been a clear decline in service provision to some areas in the city (Risinghurst, Elms Rise, Marston Road and Northway to name a few) which should be a priority to restore if funding allows (appreciating that service provision is still fine for most of these areas, but Risinghurst and Marston Road in particular have seen some severe cuts!).

 

[Vespa]

I'm not sure a tram system would be feasible for a city the size of Oxford, a segregated electric guided bus lanes may be a better option without the need for an expensive major tramway infrastructure work.

 

[Arkeeos]

The LTN thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/oxford-low-traffic-neighbourhood.247180/#post-6178606 discusses the issues of excessive car use for local journeys in Oxford, with the LTN concept being a stick with regard to that traffic.

But what about a carrot? While Oxford does have an excellent bus service by UK standards, could a tramway make sense? The layout of the city other than Blackbird Leys and its surrounds is oddly linear down only a few corridors, so it could be done with only a few routes which would be well-used.

Maybe in the future if Oxford grows, but given the residents and local government reject the growth of the city, I don't see why the government should waste money on it. They would be much better building a tram system in Cambridge that can support the new developments there and take over the guided busway, as well as run as a tram train over some the rural lines to the east of Cambridge.

 

[Kingston Dan]

I'm not sure a tram system would be feasible for a city the size of Oxford, a segregated electric guided bus lanes may be a better option without the need for an expensive major tramway infrastructure work.

Just like Cambridge which has shown it is both expensive and doesn't work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just like Cambridge which has shown it is both expensive and doesn't work.

How has Cambridge shown a tramway doesn't work? It hasn't got one and hasn't had one in recent years.

 

[Snapper37]

Witney to Abingdon via the station? Inter urban rather the city. Station to the JR, out via the Bicester line, down the ring road then into JR, perhaps continuing to Headington. We can dream. Perhaps a monorail…..

 

[urbophile]

Trams are feasible only if they have dedicated tracks (including repurposed heavy rail lines), or the centre of enormous boulevards, or if they mix it with other vehicles on lightly-used roads.
None of that applies to Woodstock Road, Banbury Road, and Abingdon Road in Oxford.
(Alas - I'm just back from loving the trams in Bonn and Freiburg im Breisgau)

There's an awful lot of trams on busy and not particularly wide streets in Milan, as I'm sure in many other cities.

 

[Mikey C]

Oxford United are planning to leave their current ground incidentally (which they don't own) and are hoping to build a new one on a site near Parkway station

 

[Kingston Dan]

How has Cambridge shown a tramway doesn't work? It hasn't got one and hasn't had one in recent years.

I meant busway.

 

[Nicholas43]

There's an awful lot of trams on busy and not particularly wide streets in Milan, as I'm sure in many other cities.

Yes, I do remember being amazed at Vespas happily weaving round the trams in Milan (and Naples). I just don't believe it could work for North Oxford SUVs in Banbury Road - let alone White Vans in Cowley Road.

 

[higthomas]

Just like Cambridge which has shown it is both expensive and doesn't work.

In what way? Always seems particularly popular to me, and the one to St Ives has much the best inter-urban bus service in the county.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what way? Always seems particularly popular to me, and the one to St Ives has much the best inter-urban bus service in the county.

I thought they were referring to trams, probably off the back of the bizarre and expensive (sort of) proposed underground scheme, which isn't really a tramway.

 

[snowball]

I thought they were referring to trams, probably off the back of the bizarre and expensive (sort of) proposed underground scheme, which isn't really a tramway.

The original quote was by @Kingston Dan in #26, who added in #41 that he was referring to the busway. So @higthomas's question remains unanswered.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The original quote was by @Kingston Dan in #26, who added in #41 that he was referring to the busway. So @higthomas's question remains unanswered.

The busway itself is fine for the intended purpose (a congestion-avoiding core, fanning out at the end), but now the service is pretty much self contained I can't see any reason you'd not connect it to a Cambridge tramway if there was one. It fulfilled a very specific need in a city where heavy rail would have been inferior because of the awkward location of the railway station.

 

[Magdalia]

Just like Cambridge which has shown it is both expensive and doesn't work.

As a local I would agree with this assessment of the Cambridge Busway.

Punctuality is awful because of congestion in the city itself.

Between Cambridge North and St Ives it is a very expensive piece of infrastructure for 6 buses per hour off peak.

Routes extended off the busway to other destinations are now non-existent apart from Huntingdon. There's now nothing running off the busway to places such as Chatteris, Ramsey and Wyton, which was supposed to be one of the main benefits of the busway over heavy or light rail.

The Cambridge station-Biomedical Campus section has been closed northbound for more than a year. It can only take single deckers and is more important as a cycleway than as a busway. A cycleway without a busway would have been a lot cheaper to build.

 

[duncanp]

Another solution to avoid using overhead wires in the city centre is Alstom's APS (Alimentation Par Sol - Ground electrification) used in Bordeaux, France (and other cities). Such system works as essentially a third rail, but unlike the traditional third rail used in South East England & Merseyrail, it's only energised / live when the tram is passing through.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_APS for more info

A limitation I believe (I might be wrong though!) is that if the APS option was chosen, then you'd have no choice but to order Alstom Citadis trams (like the ones used in Nottingham and other European cities)

Another solution is for the trams to have rechargeable batteries which can be used on short sections without wires, such as in Birmingham where there are no wires between Grand Central and Brindley Place, and between Five Ways and Edgbaston Village.

There are overhead wires at the Edgbaston Village terminus so that trams can recharge the batteries whilst on layover before starting their return journey.

 

[MarkyT]

Another solution is for the trams to have rechargeable batteries which can be used on short sections without wires, such as in Birmingham where there are no wires between Grand Central and Brindley Place, and between Five Ways and Edgbaston Village.

There are overhead wires at the Edgbaston Village terminus so that trams can recharge the batteries whilst on layover before starting their return journey.

CAF also have a system, ACR (Acumulador de Carga Rápida), using supercapacitors that charge extremely rapidly at each revenue stop en route. Used in Sevilla, Zaragosa, Newcastle Australia, and Luxembourg.

Acumulador de Carga Rápida - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Coventry VLR (Very Light Rail) proposals include battery operation throughout with fast charging.

Coventry Very Light Rail - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Battery operation can avoid the expense and difficulty of threading wires and their supporting catenary and supports through sometimes sensitive historic locations, and risks of stray traction return current escaping into underground utility pipes and other surrounding metalwork.

Battery trams, especially lightweight ones are advantageous compared to similar-sized buses as power consumption is reduced by the lower rolling resistance relative to rubber-tired vehicles. This can reduce the size and weight of a battery for a given range or allow greater range.

Another company producing battery streetcars in the USA which they claim can do a full-day operation without charging en route is:

TIG/m, LLC

Explore our state-of-the-art light rail transport systems. TIG/m, LLC offers sustainable and efficient transportation solutions for urban areas.

tig-m.com

While they aim to be able to run all day on stored energy from the battery, the company also offer range extension options using a small gas-fuelled IC engine/generator module or a H2 fuel cell.

 

[Dr Day]

Plenty of cities in France of a similar population to Oxford manage to justify light rail networks - Oxford isn't necessarily too small. The more relevant issue is probably density - of both housing and employment/other attractors. Are there enough people making trips along a core corridor or two to hit the rough threshold above which tram becomes more cost effective than bus (something like 3000 passengers per direction per hour iirc)? Combined with the right governance and combination of carrots and sticks including park and rides and integrated fares/ticketing), Oxford isn't the worst place by any stretch for a tram to be considered IMHO.

 

[JamesT]

Plenty of cities in France of a similar population to Oxford manage to justify light rail networks - Oxford isn't necessarily too small. The more relevant issue is probably density - of both housing and employment/other attractors. Are there enough people making trips along a core corridor or two to hit the rough threshold above which tram becomes more cost effective than bus (something like 3000 passengers per direction per hour iirc)? Combined with the right governance and combination of carrots and sticks including park and rides and integrated fares/ticketing), Oxford isn't the worst place by any stretch for a tram to be considered IMHO.

Maybe the Cowley Road corridor might have got close to those numbers in the before-Covid times. You had two companies running double-deckers every 5 minutes in the peak with the 1/5 routes, plus some additionals (10/12/U5/etc.).

 

[Fleetmaster]

It will probably never attract enough car users to cover its capital and running costs. Anything less just threatens the viability of the bus network.

 

[Bartsimho]

It will probably never attract enough car users to cover its capital and running costs. Anything less just threatens the viability of the bus network.

Considering how off-putting buses can be based on what has been said in other threads that might be a good thing. A good transport city should have no more than 10 bus routes into the centre

 

[Dr Day]

It will probably never attract enough car users to cover its capital and running costs. Anything less just threatens the viability of the bus network.

Other changes to the overall transport network, including revised bus routes and parking provision, would need to be part of the scheme - it would be pointless maintaining a competing parallel bus route.

Difficult here with deregulation but one of the reasons many European cities, including Dublin, have a more successful tram network than say Sheffield, is that they are planned as part of an integrated public transport network with complementary rather than competing services. Integrated fares and ticketing and integrated high density complementary planning policies help too.

 

[Nottingham59]

A good transport city should have no more than 10 bus routes into the centre

I think a city may need more than that, but for easier public communication it really helps to group them into distinct service groups along the main routes to the centre. Nottingham does this really well, with buses coloured by service group, so all the orange buses go down the Derby Road, and all the green buses go to West Bridgford etc. The City bus map makes it really clear where the high frequency bus routes go.

See also: https://robinhoodnetwork.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Nottingham-Core-Bus-Tram-Service-Map.pdf
Se

 

[daodao]

Plenty of cities in France of a similar population to Oxford manage to justify light rail networks - Oxford isn't necessarily too small. The more relevant issue is probably density - of both housing and employment/other attractors. Are there enough people making trips along a core corridor or two to hit the rough threshold above which tram becomes more cost effective than bus (something like 3000 passengers per direction per hour iirc)? Combined with the right governance and combination of carrots and sticks including park and rides and integrated fares/ticketing), Oxford isn't the worst place by any stretch for a tram to be considered IMHO.

What Oxford and Cambridge have in common is their relatively small size and narrow central streets, without significant distances to cover (i.e. over 4 miles from the centre to the edge of the urban area). They both had horse tramways that were never electrified, both with the same narrow gauge (4 feet) and both were closed in 1914. Neither are suitable for a modern light rail system. Even the large cities of Leeds and Liverpool, whose former tram systems continued to be developed until the 1940s with extensive reserved tracks, have been unable to re-open tram networks.

 

[davetheguard]

Oxford United are planning to leave their current ground incidentally (which they don't own) and are hoping to build a new one on a site near Parkway station

At least that'll make it a lot more accessable by public transport than the current location. But no plans to go back to Headington I assume?! Kidlington United anyone?

 

[JamesT]

At least that'll make it a lot more accessable by public transport than the current location. But no plans to go back to Headington I assume?! Kidlington United anyone?

The former ground in Headington now has a hospital built on it. There isn’t anywhere within Oxford itself with anything like enough space for a new ground.
If the Cowley branch line gets opened for passengers, there would be a station within easy walking distance of the stadium, almost as good as Kidlington. Unfortunately the railway and the design of Greater Leys road network makes for a rather indirect route from the city centre to the Kassam, whereas Oxford Parkway is just a stop on a direct route from Oxford to Kidlington.
I think similar issues would affect any tramway, trams want to be direct linear routes, but to collect the passengers you need to go round the houses like the buses do. I’m also unconvinced there’s enough space. Large parts of Cowley Road (which is the obvious corridor to start with given its bus use) are barely wide enough for buses to pass each other. The trams would be at the mercy of any terrible drivers, just last night I saw a large queue forming as a taxi was sitting waiting for a passenger in the lane rather than going further on to find a parking spot.

 

[Fleetmaster]

Considering how off-putting buses can be based on what has been said in other threads that might be a good thing. A good transport city should have no more than 10 bus routes into the centre

My city has ten high frequency double decker routes just to serve the west side. And it's not seen as one of the better networks (this is essentially all the market will sustain at present). Franchising has been routinely rejected precisely because it comes with unpopular measures like congestion charging and even more layers of expensive local bureaucracy under the guise of "devolution" (local politicians have long histories of corruption and financial incompetence, this being a lifelong Labour city).

There is perennial talk of a tram down the main westbound drag, one of three main arteries, but it's widely considered a costly exercise in producing not much benefit. The buses are already doing this run in 30 minutes with no priority measures and little parking/traffic enforcement, and their diverging routes at the periphery are way more useful than a simple straight corridor that ends at a bypass.

There is I guess the possibility for such a tram to terminate at a park and ride site beyond the bypass, but that would be well outside the city and only benefit rich country dwellers, allowing them to speed past the long suffering city residents in comfort, being well able to pay for the privilege. A potential negative impact would also be to drain the already down at heel towns and villages way out west of workers and shoppers, attracting them to the city rather than their local economy.

This is a city where most of the bus routes are former tram (and then trolleybus) routes. It has a healthy tourist and student population, and is a major shopping destinations. The car is the problem. As in, people do not see any benefit to giving it up, and will absorb any and all measures designed to force them. The economic impact of making the city any more hostile to cars than it already is, would be disastrous. I imagine Oxford is in an even worse position.

 

[Fleetmaster]

I think a city may need more than that, but for easier public communication it really helps to group them into distinct service groups along the main routes to the centre. Nottingham does this really well, with buses coloured by service group, so all the orange buses go down the Derby Road, and all the green buses go to West Bridgford etc. The City bus map makes it really clear where the high frequency bus routes go.

See also: https://robinhoodnetwork.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Nottingham-Core-Bus-Tram-Service-Map.pdf
Se

It still looks to be a quite complicated network once you get out in the boonies. The variations in Plains and Wolds for example give me a headache just looking at them, and also makes it harder to use the high frequency corridors (because you have to remember the 9/9A/9B etc all go to the stop you want). I'm surprised to see they have retained this type of retrograde network design.