Tfl Prosecution court date 2023

[Llanigraham]

When you say public record - does that mean it will appear on an enhanced DBS check?


As in - is there a time limit on how long it will appear on an enhanced DBS check? After a year will it still appear? For a teaching position in a school - will this show up? Will I have to reveal this to my employer?

That very much depends on what is written in your Contract of Employment, but I suspect that yes it does need revealing. If you are a member of one of the teaching unions it might be best to check with them.

 

[Llanigraham]

What about a teaching position? Will I have to reveal it to my employer when they do an enhanced DBS check? Also will it appear on the an enhanced DBS check forever or is there a time limit on how long it appears?

Possibly, see above.
Also worth noting that some employers now ask "Have you ever been prosecuted/charged with a criminal offence?" and not just "found guilty", and hiding the fact that you have can be more detrimental than admitting it.

 

[30907]

I agree.

If I'd interviewed a candidate for a teaching post and they'd told me openly they'd been daft when a student and evaded fares but had learned their lesson, I wouldn't have held it against them. BUT if they withheld said info, I would have taken a different view.

And I would think the school would be legally entitled to withdraw an offer of employment if the application form omitted the information.

 

[Enthusiast]

This is not correct. The court is encouraged to impose a higher penalty for the substantive offence than would have been imposed without the TIC offences, though it is seen as an "Aggravating Factor", not a whole new set of offences to sentence for.

But I didn't mention anything about sentencing for the signature offence. I only said there would be no separate penalties for the TICs

 

[Puffing Devil]

But I didn't mention anything about sentencing for the signature offence. I only said there would be no separate penalties for the TICs

No specifically, though it could easily be read that there would be no additional penalty for the offences TIC, which is not the case.

 

[mrmartin]

I agree.

If I'd interviewed a candidate for a teaching post and they'd told me openly they'd been daft when a student and evaded fares but had learned their lesson, I wouldn't have held it against them. BUT if they withheld said info, I would have taken a different view.

Learn from the experience; be open and honest.

Good luck with your teaching career.

You are aware that the the candidate has absolutely no requirement legally to tell you if it is more than 11 years ago, as it will be filtered? And you are in a very grey area legally if you obtained that information/held it against them?

 

[Western Sunset]

You are aware that the the candidate has absolutely no requirement legally to tell you if it is more than 11 years ago, as it will be filtered? And you are in a very grey area legally if you obtained that information/held it against them?

I don't want to go off-topic, as doubtless things have changed since I retired a year or so ago. But safeguarding is the BIGGIE in schools, probably more so than educational standards - as far as Ofsted (Office for Standards in Education) is concerned anyway. I've got one as I still visit schools, though some are like Fort Knox to enter; most now take your picture to stick on their visitor badge.

I thought the OP was a student worried about interviews for initial teaching posts, so 11 years doesn't really come into it. Everyone working/volunteering in a school requires an enhanced DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) check. A student teacher would already have one for the teaching practice they do as part of their course. It wouldn't be a document we see before an interview, as the candidates hold their own copy. It would only come into play if the candidate was offered the post.

Hence why I said it was better if the OP were honest and open at their interview, even if the question wasn't raised by anyone on the panel.

The OP might want to have a chat with their Student Union, to clarify/reassure them on the enhanced DBS.

 

[some bloke]

If you're on a teacher training course then perhaps you have to, like nursing and medical students, tell the university immediately when you're charged with a criminal offence.

If you're already in a situation where enhanced DBS is required, it would make sense for disclosure of new convictions to be required and perhaps charges.

In any case, if you are on a course which stipulates disclosure you should have been notified of and agreed to this before the start of the course; we might also expect this information to be on the university website.

You haven't said whether you have consulted the student union as @WesternLancer and @Western Sunset have suggested: that would seem a good idea for potential advice on legal, career and perhaps welfare aspects.

I can't vouch for how accurate or up-to-date these are, but this may be useful:

Information: Becoming a teacher - Unlock

Aim of this page For entry to all professional and Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) courses in England and Wales […]

unlock.org.uk

and "Working as a teacher" here:

Disclosure in different job types

Explore our criminal record advice and guidance about disclosure in different job types. Find out what you need to disclose. See more.

www.nacro.org.uk

Unlock and Nacro have helplines - they may prefer it if you consult their websites before calling.

Hopefully you can find the offical information on regulation of teachers, disclosure, procedures and so on as well as guidance on how employers view convictions and the behaviour which they may learn about in interviews following disclosure - and how to demonstrate trustworthiness.

Where the main issue is fitness to work in a type of job, it's important to bear in mind that it's about the future, so what someone does after they're caught breaking the law could make a big difference.

Please bear in mind that the charge here is for much less than you actually did, not just in terms of the number of offences but also because the offence you're charged with implies no dishonesty.

People sometimes think that as a result, the consequences would be milder than for an offence which does include intent to avoid a fare. That might happen if there is a "tick-box" exercise, and no questions about what happened to bring about the conviction. But for professions like teaching, the system involves humans making decisions about fitness to work, and sensibly, the idea is to find out what the person actually did, what they did after being caught, and/or how they are now approaching the situation.

Someone might say this is a minor matter and doesn't show a risk to children. What I have partly in mind is that because of the difference between what you did and what you're charged for, you may at some points need to make choices about what to disclose and when. If a person is seen as being less than candid at the time of interview, that can be a bigger matter than the original crime.

In some circumstances, for example, a person might only reveal the byelaw offence without disclosing the other offences or the dishonesty - perhaps wrongly thinking that is all that is required. And in some circumstances that might be viewed as less than frank. So you need to be informed, think in advance, make sure you are clear what is being requested, and be prepared to be open.

 

[2023tfl]

Has anyone heard of someone being prosecuted

Not that we've seen a case of this on the forums, as far as I know.

Does anyone know of any cases like this?

 

[30907]

Has anyone heard of someone being prosecuted

Does anyone know of any cases like this?

I think @Haywain is a reliable guide.

 

[2023tfl]

Update - the charges were dropped. Tfl agreed to settle out of court. I got in contact with Manak Solicitors. They helped me with gathering evidence for mitigating circumstances.

For anyone who has gone through this - I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING IN TOUCH WITH A SOLICITOR before responding to TFL. Do not just do it on your own. Manak Solicitors didnt give me false hope. They were also the only Solicitors who were affordable and reasonable.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Update - the charges were dropped. Tfl agreed to settle out of court. I got in contact with Manak Solicitors. They helped me with gathering evidence for mitigating circumstances.

For anyone who has gone through this - I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING IN TOUCH WITH A SOLICITOR before responding to TFL. Do not just do it on your own. Manak Solicitors didnt give me false hope. They were also the only Solicitors who were affordable and reasonable.

Thanks for letting us know - it sounds as if this is a result that you're happy with.

 

[Haywain]

They were also the only Solicitors who were affordable and reasonable.

Can you say how much this cost you? It might well be helpful for those who come here for help in the future, and for us to understand how it compares with the likely fine and costs in court.

 

[2023tfl]

Can you say how much this cost you? It might well be helpful for those who come here for help in the future, and for us to understand how it compares with the likely fine and costs in court.

£125 for consultation fee
£600 for the letter the solicitor wrote
This was the most affordable and reasonable fee out of all the solicitors I contacted. It took me 3 weeks to gather evidence as I had to get a Drs letter which took the longest. But once everything was given to Samir the solicitor. He was able to write a letter very quickly and submit it to TFL. This was also the most stressful part of my life. Caused so much anxiety. I have certainly learnt my lesson.

 

[2023tfl]

£125 for consultation fee
£600 for the letter the solicitor wrote
This was the most affordable and reasonable fee out of all the solicitors I contacted. It took me 3 weeks to gather evidence as I had to get a Drs letter which took the longest. But once everything was given to Samir the solicitor. He was able to write a letter very quickly and submit it to TFL. This was also the most stressful part of my life. Caused so much anxiety. I have certainly learnt my lesson.

I had to pay TFL for the unpaid journeys - which amounted to £195.

 

[Haywain]

I had to pay TFL for the unpaid journeys - which amounted to £195.

Thanks, it will be helpful to have that.

 

[2023tfl]

How much of your mitigating situations wa taken into account if you don’t mind me asking? It’s just that I heard you have to have an extremely good excuse for the charges to be dropped.

They decision to drop the charges was solely based on mitigating circumstances.

 

[Mylifeisruined]

They decision to drop the charges was solely based on mitigating circumstances.

Okay. I mean that’s great (in the context of things of course). I’m going through the same thing I really hope that I’m not given a criminal charge. That’s the last thing I want. I won’t like it but I’ll take just a fine gladly. I’m praying that this is the case.