Swanage Railway announce 2023 Wareham service

[Trainlog]

(1) A short campaign for the Wareham service would cost more than SRCs entire advertising budget for a year.
(2) Many heritage railways believe in the "Field of Dreams" approach.
(3) Many heritage railways see more value in putting the money towards restoration (loco, coach, wagon etc) than in marketing and thus revenue generation.

I know you have counter argued me on this several times but at the same time its also getting hard to sympathies with lines when you hear 'Funding appeal is required to save line now' but then you see little to no ads and the lines rely on word of mouth or articles in papers its fair for enthusiasts to call for more promotion and i think some lines should try and ask for funding appeals so that they can afford these ad spaces specifically as many enthusiasts volunteer/armchair would agree that something does need to be done to invite a new audience in to try out a heritage railway.

For a bit of a mini case study down here in Kent, i have seen ads for many non profit and charity tourist attractions such as Zoos, castles and one of Kent's biggest attractions, Chatham dockyard. They take advantage of ad space whenever possible be it bus billboards, Radio ad breaks, and railway posters on the national network so that people can appreciate that they are something to see in the area. Heritage railways for some are a bit of a 'buffet tourist attraction' where many wouldn't typically consider it as their first day out idea but if they do go and see it they might actually enjoy visiting these attractions in the same way we all do on here.

I agree with Brush 4, heritage railways have had some fun ad campaigns and some of the posters from the pioneering decades (60s-80s) are collectables in their own right now as the original big 4/Br ones are.

 

[Titfield]

I know you have counter argued me on this several times but at the same time its also getting hard to sympathies with lines when you hear 'Funding appeal is required to save line now' but then you see little to no ads and the lines rely on word of mouth or articles in papers its fair for enthusiasts to call for more promotion and i think some lines should try and ask for funding appeals so that they can afford these ad spaces specifically as many enthusiasts volunteer/armchair would agree that something does need to be done to invite a new audience in to try out a heritage railway.

For a bit of a mini case study down here in Kent, i have seen ads for many non profit and charity tourist attractions such as Zoos, castles and one of Kent's biggest attractions, Chatham dockyard. They take advantage of ad space whenever possible be it bus billboards, Radio ad breaks, and railway posters on the national network so that people can appreciate that they are something to see in the area. Heritage railways for some are a bit of a 'buffet tourist attraction' where many wouldn't typically consider it as their first day out idea but if they do go and see it they might actually enjoy visiting these attractions in the same way we all do on here.

I agree with Brush 4, heritage railways have had some fun ad campaigns and some of the posters from the pioneering decades (60s-80s) are collectables in their own right now as the original big 4/Br ones are.

I do not argue against it, in fact I believe that (particularly some) heritage railways should spend considerably more on marketing than they currently do taking advantage of every opportunity to get the right message out to the right audience in the right way.

I personally like billboard / poster advertising because of its longevity and often in the case of posters the incumbent always has first refusal at renewal. A poster board well manufactured (and to the correct railway size) is relatively cheap to produce and has a long life. The posters themselves can now be much more creatively designed thanks to technology and can last quite a long time if the correct spec material is used.

Whilst social media marketing has a role to play, one of the beauties of poster and billboard is that it is seen by a wide audience and not just rail enthusiasts. In fact I would argue that too many heritage railways spend too much of their budget "preaching to the converted" and not enough "seeking potential new converts".

On the mainline as JC Decaux or a similar contractor has the rights to the advertising space it can be very expensive to get ads displayed unless the TOC has some space reserved for its own use and can be persuaded to part with one space for a heritage railway possibly through the good offices of the local community rail partnership.

Likewise a heritage railway (tourist attraction) needs to spread their spend around. It is pretty pointless taking space in say 4 or 5 tourism publications if all the same publications are available / on display at the same places ie the local tourist information centre and all are picked up by the same visitors. The law of diminishing returns can soon kick in.

 

[nw1]

As an international visitor, I will be using it in September 2023. Very handy, even if the frequency of suburban trains to and from EG isn't terrific.

You're coming at the wrong time!

From October 1987 (electrification) to pre-Covid it had a very usable half-hourly all-day service.

 

[paul1609]

Yes, given I'm planning a visit on my UK/Europe trip later this year, why can't the Bluebell time departures at EG to be say 20 or 25 minutes after scheduled arrival of the electrics?

Easy timetable change to make.

The problem is that heritage railways have to fix their timetables much further in advance than Nationalrail.
For instance at the K & ESR our timetable was fixed in December 2022. We currently have all services available to book to the public on line until 30 October.
This is the timescale that's demanded by coach operators and in our case the cruise ship excursion operators which are an important part of our business.
Our santa specials went on sale in January and attracted sales of £50k in the first week.
So we now have considerable bookings all the way up until Christmas and are committed to the published timetable.
If we had a mainline connection could our partner TOC offer connections to our services over that period? I suggest not.
See the comments by the IOWSR General Manager in the Smallbrook Junction thread about why the connections are so poor. Its really not the heritage railways fault!

 

[railfan99]

The problem is that heritage railways have to fix their timetables much further in advance than Nationalrail.

I don't agree re a location such as East Grinstead.

How often would that TOC radically change arrival and departure times, given this terminus has an infrequent hourly train during the offpeak?

K&ESR railway lacks a mainline connection (sadly) so its situation, while interesting, is not overly relevant.

 

[James H]

I think the point is that since March 2020 the mainline timetable has been much less stable than in the prior decade.

 

[paul1609]

I don't agree re a location such as East Grinstead.

How often would that TOC radically change arrival and departure times, given this terminus has an infrequent hourly train during the offpeak?

K&ESR railway lacks a mainline connection (sadly) so its situation, while interesting, is not overly relevant.

The radical change in the Bluebells case is that the service hasn't been returned to 2 tph. Their timetable will have been fixed at much the same time as the k & esrs for exactly the same reasons. Your assumption that the heritage railway can change its timetable to suit last minute.com decisions by the mainline is incorrect. Online public bookings and coach operators often booking catering packages are core business. Enthusiasts (and in fact all customers arriving by train in the East Grinstead case) are a niche marginal customer.

 

[Dougal2345]

Just had an email offering 20% off Wareham services over the coronation weekend.

Is that offer personalised to you, or is it something you could share here?

 

[James H]

It's a universal offer - if you book a Wareham ticket on Saturday, Sunday or Monday for future travel, 20% will be taken off the price automatically at checkout.

 

[30907]

The radical change in the Bluebells case is that the service hasn't been returned to 2 tph. Their timetable will have been fixed at much the same time as the k & esrs for exactly the same reasons. Your assumption that the heritage railway can change its timetable to suit last minute.com decisions by the mainline is incorrect. Online public bookings and coach operators often booking catering packages are core business. Enthusiasts (and in fact all customers arriving by train in the East Grinstead case) are a niche marginal customer.

In this case, though, the reduced SX service has applied since at least May 2022 so it may be that the Bluebell should have taken action sooner.

The problem is that it doesn't just affect the timetable - it affects all the rostered staff too, not to mention the vast majority of passengers who don't arrive at EGR let alone by NR! And tour operators who package the Bluebell and Sheffield Park can be quite awkward about changing their long established arrangements.

 

[James H]

Wareham service suspended till further notice - sounds like problems with the DMU
https://www.facebook.com/swanagerai...hKDx11ggmNYfGkpWdaVYvDrLufM8y28l?locale=en_GB

We are sorry to announce that we have had to cancel our Wareham mainline DMU service due to circumstances out of our control. Our fitters are hard at work to rectify the issue, but the difficult decision has been made to cancel the service completely for now until the fault has been rectified.

 

[fgwrich]

Wareham service suspended till further notice - sounds like problems with the DMU
https://www.facebook.com/swanagerai...hKDx11ggmNYfGkpWdaVYvDrLufM8y28l?locale=en_GB

That’s a shame, hopefully the trial will be extended rather than being eaten by the DMU being out of service.

Come to think of it, it’s a shame we don’t have any mainline 33/1s. The TC could be borrowed and service operated in Push Pull mode.

 

[joncombe]

Wareham service suspended till further notice - sounds like problems with the DMU
https://www.facebook.com/swanagerai...hKDx11ggmNYfGkpWdaVYvDrLufM8y28l?locale=en_GB

I travelled on it on Saturday and got held at the last signal before joining the mainline due to late running SWR services. When the signal went green the driver seemed to be struggling to get into gear and it took several attempts to move off (sometimes rolling back a little at each attempt). I don't know if that could be related.

 

[Titfield]

I travelled on it on Saturday and got held at the last signal before joining the mainline due to late running SWR services. When the signal went green the driver seemed to be struggling to get into gear and it took several attempts to move off (sometimes rolling back a little at each attempt). I don't know if that could be related.

I would like to think that the problem is easily fixable given the time, effort and money (C£1.3M) which has been spent on the DMUs to refurbish them and bring them up to mainline standards.

 

[Trainlog]

Swanage Railway: Wareham service to be reinstated after train fault fixed

The Swanage Railway have released an update on its Wareham service, after a fault was discovered with the resident DMU.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Have to admit that is a really fast turnaround for the DMU to get back in service!

Out of curiosity how has the service been passenger wise this month?

 

[Titfield]

Swanage Railway: Wareham service to be reinstated after train fault fixed

The Swanage Railway have released an update on its Wareham service, after a fault was discovered with the resident DMU.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Have to admit that is a really fast turnaround for the DMU to get back in service!

Out of curiosity how has the service been passenger wise this month?

"The DMU" is not one DMU at all. It is a three car class 117 and a single car class 121. The idea being that the service could be operated as a 1 3 or 4 car unit depending upon passenger demand and unit serviceability. The fact that both the 117 and 121 were out of service at the same time must be of concern.

As regards passenger numbers I have not seen anything official but anecdotally it has been "ok" which to me suggests that the service will be running at a loss given the high fixed costs (hiring in crews, track and station access charges, insurance etc etc).

 

[Dai Corner]

"The DMU" is not one DMU at all. It is a three car class 117 and a single car class 121. The idea being that the service could be operated as a 1 3 or 4 car unit depending upon passenger demand and unit serviceability. The fact that both the 117 and 121 were out of service at the same time must be of concern.

As regards passenger numbers I have not seen anything official but anecdotally it has been "ok" which to me suggests that the service will be running at a loss given the high fixed costs (hiring in crews, track and station access charges, insurance etc etc).

I wonder if both units have to be operational before a main line service can be run, in case one fails and needs to be rescued?

 

[Train Boy]

I wonder if both units have to be operational before a main line service can be run, in case one fails and needs to be rescued?

I would have thought 33012 was the back up plan to be the Thunderbird if required.

 

[paul1609]

I wonder if both units have to be operational before a main line service can be run, in case one fails and needs to be rescued?

I think that the financial risk is probably such that the Swanage have decided that the 121 can't run on it own. The 117 probably has sufficient redundancy that it can drag itself off the mainline. You'd have probably hit the maximum financial penalty by the time you resourced a mainline certified DMU or loco crew and sent the loco from Swanage to Wareham to rescue a failed DMU.

 

[Titfield]

I think that the financial risk is probably such that the Swanage have decided that the 121 can't run on it own. The 117 probably has sufficient redundancy that it can drag itself off the mainline. You'd have probably hit the maximum financial penalty by the time you resourced a mainline certified DMU or loco crew and sent the loco from Swanage to Wareham to rescue a failed DMU.

If it can not run on the mainline on its own then that would suggest it has been very expensively refurbished for capacity reasons alone in which case surely an unpowered TCL Trailer Composite Lavatory (but with the lavatory removed) would have been a more cost effective solution.

 

[paul1609]

If it can not run on the mainline on its own then that would suggest it has been very expensively refurbished for capacity reasons alone in which case surely an unpowered TCL Trailer Composite Lavatory (but with the lavatory removed) would have been a more cost effective solution.

I'm not a dmu expert but I think that the 121 would offer better redundancy in terms of engines, brake exhauster and stuff such as aws etc. I'm not sure that 117s ever ran as 4 car units and whether the control wiring etc would be suitable. You can always modify stuff but getting mainline accreditation for an ammended unit may be difficult.

 

[Trainlog]

"The DMU" is not one DMU at all. It is a three car class 117 and a single car class 121. The idea being that the service could be operated as a 1 3 or 4 car unit depending upon passenger demand and unit serviceability. The fact that both the 117 and 121 were out of service at the same time must be of concern.

As regards passenger numbers I have not seen anything official but anecdotally it has been "ok" which to me suggests that the service will be running at a loss given the high fixed costs (hiring in crews, track and station access charges, insurance etc etc).

Yeah I'm not surprised the numbers have gone down a bit, however, i reckon the numbers will go back up when the summer holidays fully kicks in.

 

[341o2]

I think that the financial risk is probably such that the Swanage have decided that the 121 can't run on it own. The 117 probably has sufficient redundancy that it can drag itself off the mainline. You'd have probably hit the maximum financial penalty by the time you resourced a mainline certified DMU or loco crew and sent the loco from Swanage to Wareham to rescue a failed DMU.

But, as mentioned above 33012 (D6565) is mainline certified, and would rescue the 117 if it was totally incapable of moving under its own power.
could 31806 be used as well, because likewise it is also mainline certified?

 

[Dai Corner]

But, as mentioned above 33012 (D6565) is mainline certified, and would rescue the 117 if it was totally incapable of moving under its own power.
could 31806 be used as well, because likewise it is also mainline certified?

Do Swanage Railway drivers sign the main line, or SWR drivers sign 33s and 31s?

Organising a driver and route conductor might take some time, and the delay minutes will be racking up.

 

[jupiter]

The 121 can join the set to make 4 cars, or can substitute for either end power car so it may be taken out of the set for maintenance.

 

[paul1609]

Do Swanage Railway drivers sign the main line, or SWR drivers sign 33s and 31s?

Organising a driver and route conductor might take some time, and the delay minutes will be racking up.

The Swanage don't have a mainline licence as I understand it. The DMUs are operated by West Coast.

 

[Titfield]

But, as mentioned above 33012 (D6565) is mainline certified, and would rescue the 117 if it was totally incapable of moving under its own power.
could 31806 be used as well, because likewise it is also mainline certified?

You wont be able to use 31806 (U Class) unless it is the steam locomotive rostered for the day because self evidently it wouldnt be in steam and there may not be a suitable driver and guard available.. You could use 33012 but only if there was a suitable driver and guard available which again may not be possible at short notice.

There was talk of getting an 08 class shunter mainline certified to act as a thunderbird. I am not sure what happened to this plan.

I'm not a dmu expert but I think that the 121 would offer better redundancy in terms of engines, brake exhauster and stuff such as aws etc. I'm not sure that 117s ever ran as 4 car units and whether the control wiring etc would be suitable. You can always modify stuff but getting mainline accreditation for an ammended unit may be difficult.

It is my understanding though that when the units were refurbished, the control wiring etc was modified in such a way that it could run as a 4 car set.

Yeah I'm not surprised the numbers have gone down a bit, however, i reckon the numbers will go back up when the summer holidays fully kicks in.

The numbers on the Wareham service havent gone down as it hasnt been run at this time of year before. The 60 day trial in 2017 started in June and ran 12 weeks into September. The 90 day trial started in April and runs 4 days a week until sometime in September. (The online timetable isnt complete beyond the first week of September).

 

[jupiter]

The 121 is standard blue square jumper wiring. If you map it out, on one end the oil pressure/air-axle lights appear correctly, at the other they appear at a lower order rank, 6 & 12 or something, I can’t remember exactly, but they function properly there.

 

[341o2]

It is my understanding though that when the units were refurbished, the control wiring etc was modified in such a way that it could run as a 4 car set.

It did run as a 4 car unit on the first day of operation this year. I would have thought that the Railway has contingency plans in the event of a unit failure, and would only be a real issue if it occurred between Worgret and Wareham. As West Coast have a 33 themselves, couldn't they operate D6515 if necessary?

 

[Dougal2345]

Had a day out on this on Saturday, coughing up the requisite £25! (ouch)

First service (the 117 so three coaches) Wareham-Swanage of the day seemed busy-ish - each bay of 4 or 6 seats had one or two people in, I would say - and about the same on the last one back.

Not sure what the 'ding-dong' sounds, played alarmingly loudly over the PA (distorted and off key) prior to departure were signifying - doors locked maybe?

If this is purely a 'feeder' to the Swanage Railway, as posts above suggest, it seems strange that it's running on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, but not Sundays, or Bank Holiday Mondays - wouldn't the latter be the busier days?