Cross Country Trains produce a useful PRINTED Timetable booklet again.

[Amlag]

Cross Country Trains Management and staff are to be congratulated on their producing, (for the new Timetable from 21/5 to 9/12/23) a very useful, handy and popular printed booklet of all their train services including a map showing their routes to help people realise the places they serve.

These printed booklets allow an easy at a glance understanding of the spread and times of trains and do not rely on often troublesome hand held devices that need regular charging up using electricity.

Let‘s hope other TOCs follow suit and are more inclusive to their potential customers by reintroducing the option of printed Timetables.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Cross Country Trains Management and staff are to be congratulated on their producing, (for the new Timetable from 21/5 to 9/12/23) a very useful, handy and popular printed booklet of all their train services including a map showing their routes to help people realise the places they serve.

These printed booklets allow an easy at a glance understanding of the spread and times of trains and do not rely on often troublesome hand held devices that need regular charging up using electricity.

Let‘s hope other TOCs follow suit and are more inclusive to their potential customers by reintroducing the option of printed Timetables.

I agree. Reading a printed timetable on the page is so much quicker and customer- friendly than having to scroll through a 40 page pdf on a mobile phone just to find the specific times you want. Just another example of technology actually making things worse rather than better!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is this a digital version of the paper booklet being described here?

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/6811/book-1-may-23-v4-web.pdf

 

[JordR]

I think being a bit more realistic, this is likely to have very little value to the vast majority of travellers. I don't understand why they would increase their costs by providing these in hard copy.

Most won't be able to read a 64 page printed timetable. Even if they can, it's only of use when travelling between two XC served stations and even then they're not the sole TOC that operates on many parts of their routes.

 

[jagardner1984]

Definitely agree - sometimes I have a desired operator and route - and find whatever I put into journey planner software I cannot get it to generate said route ! Therefore when I know this route exists, the PDF planner can be very useful.

My only request (which perhaps exists in a corner of the internet I am unaware of) is for example a “make your own PDF” where basically you could specify a start and end point, a desired TOC or routing option, and a start time, and it would produce essentially the same document but with non relevant services excluded. In the example of Cross Country and my journey starting in Scotland - the Manchester originating services are for example of little relevance to me - and reduce the clarity of the timetable by wading through many options which I could never board, when the relevant services fit on a much smaller document.

I feel this would be a useful service more widely.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

My only request (which perhaps exists in a corner of the internet I am unaware of) is for example a “make your own PDF” where basically you could specify a start and end point, a desired TOC or routing option, and a start time, and it would produce essentially the same document but with non relevant services excluded. In the example of Cross Country and my journey starting in Scotland - the Manchester originating services are for example of little relevance to me - and reduce the clarity of the timetable by wading through many options which I could never board, when the relevant services fit on a much smaller document.

Your Pocket Timetables - National Rail Enquiries

Create your own personalised printable PDF timetable. Up to 3 separate departure or arrival stations, selected days, dates and travel times to suite - and more

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

Found it, it also kinda works as a mini-journey planner.
I'd accidentally stumbled across this a while ago and managed to re-find it.
I think this might be an amazing tool for assisting family and friends travelling.

 

[trainJam]

Recently picked both up at the XC rack at Birmingham New Street. It is great to see them back after a few years.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It’s been mentioned elsewhere on here timetable books are only authorised for printing when a timetable has major changes to a service, which in this case for XC it does. I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to be printed again at the next change.

 

[DarloRich]

I think being a bit more realistic, this is likely to have very little value to the vast majority of travellers. I don't understand why they would increase their costs by providing these in hard copy.

Absolutly.

It is 2023 not 1953. Get a decent modern phone. Use an on line planner. It isnt hard.

If my partners mother who is of an age that one does not ask about can use on line bus and train timetbales AND twitter to lambast arriva for poor performance so can you!

There are no excuses.

I agree. Reading a printed timetable on the page is so much quicker and customer- friendly than having to scroll through a 40 page pdf on a mobile phone just to find the specific times you want. Just another example of technology actually making things worse rather than better!

It really isnt. I planned a 7 day rover without once looking at a printed booklet.

Why look at 40 pages to find a time you want? Just use rail enquires like most people!

 

[PeterY]

I think being a bit more realistic, this is likely to have very little value to the vast majority of travellers. I don't understand why they would increase their costs by providing these in hard copy.

Most won't be able to read a 64 page printed timetable. Even if they can, it's only of use when travelling between two XC served stations and even then they're not the sole TOC that operates on many parts of their routes.

I love printed timetables . I'm going to have to try and get my hands on one.

I don't have and or want a smart phone.

 

[mangyiscute]

Absolutly.

It is 2023 not 1953. Get a decent modern phone. Use an on line planner. It isnt hard.

If my partners mother who is of an age that one does not ask about can use on line bus and train timetbales AND twitter to lambast arriva for poor performance so can you!

There are no excuses.


It really isnt. I planned a 7 day rover without once looking at a printed booklet.

Why look at 40 pages to find a time you want? Just use rail enquires like most people!

The attitude of forcing people to use a form of media that they don't want to use will cause the railways to lose passengers. We should try to be as inclusive as possible and if that means producing timetable booklets, then that's what we should do.
Plus, as a kid I loved to look through the paper timetables, it was definitely one of the things that got me into loving the railways in the first place, and with screens becoming more and more a part of children's lives, we shouldn't be saying "oh they can access it online" - give them a timetable.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

From a collector's standpoint this is nice. I used to love collecting timetables as a child and still have a shoebox full of them.

 

[43066]

Absolutly.

It is 2023 not 1953. Get a decent modern phone. Use an on line planner. It isnt hard.

If my partners mother who is of an age that one does not ask about can use on line bus and train timetbales AND twitter to lambast arriva for poor performance so can you!

There are no excuses.

And my late grandad who had never so much as used a typewriter was able to master an ipad in his late 80s. It’s extraordinary and somewhat disappointing that people decades younger seem to struggle!

The attitude of forcing people to use a form of media that they don't want to use will cause the railways to lose passengers. We should try to be as inclusive as possible and if that means producing timetable booklets, then that's what we should do.

We are reaching the point where the costs of producing these things will exceed any marginal revenue lost by removing them.

 

[sprinterguy]

For a group of us who regularly use Crosscountry services, the production of a physical timetable booklet has been a boon that's informed us ahead of time of changes to the timetable and, in some cases, our regular trains.

The changes to timings on the Manchester - Birmingham corridor last December took us all, to a man, by surprise during their first week of operation, with no physical indication of their implementation beforehand.

 

[MikeWM]

Why look at 40 pages to find a time you want? Just use rail enquires like most people!

I can't because they've broken it by replacing the site with a 'beta' that doesn't work on my iPad. I don't remember that ever happening to a printed booklet

 

[mangyiscute]

We are reaching the point where the costs of producing these things will exceed any marginal revenue lost by removing them.

How much do you think it costs to make the timetables? It'll be very little.
It's not just about economics, the railways are crucial to a lot of people especially elderly people who can't drive anymore, and saying "oh they should just figure out technology" is not and never will be an acceptable solution.
If we look at railways as profit making things, you can say goodbye to most of the current services. Railways need to exist for the social benefits, and excluding a group of people from easy access to information about what trains run is a massive backwards step

 

[route101]

I have picked them up. Glasgow Central have them in the racks facing the windows!

Its great to find out the service pattern over the day, I find it quicker than a journey planner. You get the whole picture and can see any odd services.

 

[43066]

the railways are crucial to a lot of people especially elderly people who can't drive anymore, and saying "oh they should just figure out technology" is not and never will be an acceptable solution.

But elderly people now - even those now in their mid eighties who retired two decades ago - will have used technology in the workplace and will likely be computer literate. It really isn’t hard for someone of any age to master an iPad or similar given how user friendly and intuitive they are, as the above example of my grandad shows.

We are getting to the point where mastering the basics of using technology is as important as the ability to read and write.

If we look at railways as profit making things, you can say goodbye to most of the current services. Railways need to exist for the social benefits, and excluding a group of people from easy access to information about what trains run is a massive backwards step

I agree with that but, at a point where we are looking for quick wins in terms of cost saving and supposedly can’t afford to give the staff a pay rise(!), what’s the point in wasting money on timetables that virtually nobody will use?

 

[mangyiscute]

I agree with that but, at a point where we are looking for quick wins in terms of cost saving and supposedly can’t afford to give the staff a pay rise(!), what’s the point in wasting money on timetables that virtually nobody will use?

Because a lot of people do use them - if you have taken any bus with a timetable on it you will see plenty of people taking them.
If you seriously think that not printing timetables will produce any sort of large saving then you clearly have no idea how the finances work.
We should be trying to get people to take trains, not making them inaccessible

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Cross Country Trains Management and staff are to be congratulated on their producing, (for the new Timetable from 21/5 to 9/12/23) a very useful, handy and popular printed booklet of all their train services including a map showing their routes to help people realise the places they serve.

These printed booklets allow an easy at a glance understanding of the spread and times of trains and do not rely on often troublesome hand held devices that need regular charging up using electricity.

Let‘s hope other TOCs follow suit and are more inclusive to their potential customers by reintroducing the option of printed Timetables.

I have one myself and I have to say that these printed copies should stay, where as the PDF version should be laid out in an 22 across format (to fit one sheet of A4) and to use as little paper as possible. I wished Northern would do this or at least produce a guide for the South Pennines covering the Calder Valley, Penistone and Hope Valley Lines in somewhat similar fashion to the existing Leeds to Settle to Carlisle & Morecambe guide.

Printed timetables are essentially a marketing tool.

 

[BJames]

I have to admit to being a bit surprised at the excitement over these paper timetables (appreciate this is probably an unpopular opinion over here on an enthusiast forum but it's never been something I've really bothered about). Timetable posters are useful on stations to an extent to show the service pattern (see Geoff Marshall's least used station videos/new station videos) but the fact remains that up to the minute, live departures and journey planners make life far easier. Especially with a range of cancellations and delays - why be left in the dark? I do believe, and I'm sorry to say, that people not wishing to get a smartphone are stubbornly refusing to move with the times.

From a collector's standpoint this is nice. I used to love collecting timetables as a child and still have a shoebox full of them.

This is I suppose the main reason these are nice.

The attitude of forcing people to use a form of media that they don't want to use will cause the railways to lose passengers. We should try to be as inclusive as possible and if that means producing timetable booklets, then that's what we should do.
Plus, as a kid I loved to look through the paper timetables, it was definitely one of the things that got me into loving the railways in the first place, and with screens becoming more and more a part of children's lives, we shouldn't be saying "oh they can access it online" - give them a timetable.

In particular the bit in bold - good luck with that. Kids watch TV shows on their parents' ipads while eating dinner. They won't read a physical timetable - it will go into Google Maps/Citymapper (the only two apps all of my friends use to plan their travel around London - and those outside London just book on Trainline or trainsplit and follow the itinerary given) - and if they really want to look at a timetable they can look at online versions.

Absolutly.

It is 2023 not 1953. Get a decent modern phone. Use an on line planner. It isnt hard.

If my partners mother who is of an age that one does not ask about can use on line bus and train timetbales AND twitter to lambast arriva for poor performance so can you!

There are no excuses.


It really isnt. I planned a 7 day rover without once looking at a printed booklet.

Why look at 40 pages to find a time you want? Just use rail enquires like most people!

I agree with this entirely.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I just see it that individual people are different and find some things more or less than difficult than others. It doesn’t bother me what Jane down the road uses to plan her journey. If she would rather use a pocket timetable than a phone, that hardly effects me personally tbh…

 

[TUC]

I agree. Reading a printed timetable on the page is so much quicker and customer- friendly than having to scroll through a 40 page pdf on a mobile phone just to find the specific times you want. Just another example of technology actually making things worse rather than better!

The problem is that too often operators do not include a drop down option allowing the timetable for a specific direction and for weekdays vs Saturdays and/or Sundays to be selected, so leading to the need to scroll through multiple pages. This is frustrating as I would far rather have an online timetable than have to carry multiple printed booklets around,

 

[Goldfish62]

How much do you think it costs to make the timetables? It'll be very little.
It's not just about economics, the railways are crucial to a lot of people especially elderly people who can't drive anymore, and saying "oh they should just figure out technology" is not and never will be an acceptable solution.
If we look at railways as profit making things, you can say goodbye to most of the current services. Railways need to exist for the social benefits, and excluding a group of people from easy access to information about what trains run is a massive backwards step

Exactly. But then these forums seem to obsessed with chopping anything that in itself does not generate profit. A surprising attitude from some on here who are railway employees and often state with considerable passion (and rightly so) about how the railways are far more than just about making money.

 

[43066]

Because a lot of people do use them - if you have taken any bus with a timetable on it you will see plenty of people taking them.

So why are so many industries phasing them out?

I haven’t seen a printed bus timetable booklet for eons. You’ll get either a poster or increasingly a live countdown at the bus stop. Most of us use an app that tells is where the bus is and when to leave home. Far simpler and more accurate useful than leading through a timetable based on average speeds. The app can also show a full timetable for each and every stop.

I have to admit to being a bit surprised at the excitement over these paper timetables (appreciate this is probably an unpopular opinion over here on an enthusiast forum but it's never been something I've really bothered about). Timetable posters are useful on stations to an extent to show the service pattern (see Geoff Marshall's least used station videos/new station videos) but the fact remains that up to the minute, live departures and journey planners make life far easier. Especially with a range of cancellations and delays - why be left in the dark? I do believe, and I'm sorry to say, that people not wishing to get a smartphone are stubbornly refusing to move with the times.

This is I suppose the main reason these are nice.

In particular the bit in bold - good luck with that. Kids watch TV shows on their parents' ipads while eating dinner. They won't read a physical timetable - it will go into Google Maps/Citymapper (the only two apps all of my friends use to plan their travel around London - and those outside London just book on Trainline or trainsplit and follow the itinerary given) - and if they really want to look at a timetable they can look at online versions.


I agree with this entirely.

Agreed.

Exactly. But then these forums seem to obsessed with chopping anything that in itself does not generate profit. A surprising attitude from some on here who are railway employees and often state with considerable passion (and rightly so) about how the railways are far more than just about making money.

That’s true, but there is a need to move with the times with things like this. In the same way as the railway doesn’t accept cheques anymore, the reality is hardly anyone will be using them.

You might know better than most actually - can you still get hold of traditional printed bus timetables??

 

[Falcon1200]

It is 2023 not 1953. Get a decent modern phone. Use an on line planner. It isnt hard.

I do believe, and I'm sorry to say, that people not wishing to get a smartphone are stubbornly refusing to move with the times.

I have a smartphone, and a tablet which I take on longer journeys, which I use both for planning trips and during journeys, however I also find paper timetables useful for seeing overall service levels, for example. If people do not wish to use paper timetables, fine, but do not denigrate those who for whatever reason do.

can you still get hold of traditional printed bus timetables??

Yes you can; Stagecoach (Oxford and Fife) and the Oxford Bus Company supply printed timetables, which are regularly re-issued when required.

 

[father_jack]

They've only done a book because the DfT compelled them to. It was felt after such a large increase in services in one go post COVID that the books would be necessary. I wouldn't expect a reprint in December the same as I wouldn't ever expect to see any other TOC producing a printed timetable ever again.

 

[Scott1]

Other than enthusiasts it is rare I'm ever asked for a timetable. Their expensive to produce, don't show any engineering works, and you need to work out your own connections. There are few occasions where I wouldn't prefer a journey planner, even when timetable books were available.

The only reason XC printed them this time was because the DfT told them to because of the timetable amendments, but even this seems daft given that there are already changes for the two week blockade near Chesterfield.

 

[MikeWM]

I do wonder if the railways understand how unwelcoming they have become to people who aren't very familiar with the system.

Take Ely for example, since the 'improvements' done last year. There are three posters outside - one detailing the hours the ticket office is open, and two detailing Greater Anglia engineering work (neither being the most relevant one for Ely). Then you go inside, the ticket office is more often than not closed when it should be open, there are four ticket machines and the ticket barriers and some departure screens, and nothing else.

Until you're through the ticket barriers, there are no maps telling you where you can go or which operators run trains to where, no timetables telling you what services run or where they stop, nothing about first trains, last trains, connections, or anything else. The entire attitude is 'get your own information from the internet if you want to know anything at all, and if you can't or don't want to, we're not interested'.

A printed timetable booklet goes a long way to offering a 'way in' to the railway that otherwise no longer exists - especially if they are also distributed to local centres such as libraries and employment hubs.

 

[Scott1]

A printed timetable booklet goes a long way to offering a 'way in' to the railway that otherwise no longer exists - especially if they are also distributed to local centres such as libraries and employment hubs.

You can only get a printed timetable at the station, which suggests the person is already reasonably committed to getting the train. If they are not getting a train that day and have come to plan their journey then they will need to buy tickets, which will involve using the ticket machine, or buying online, if the ticket office is closed. If it is open then they can print the train times required and provide upto date information.

It's intresting you mention the engineering information posters as off putting, but then suggest that a timetable booklet, that will be wrong during engineering, as a welcoming solution. Your average leisure passenger is going to be both unfamiliar with the railway and most likly to be traveling during engineering works (weekends).

My TOC produces marketing leaflets still, that are distributed to various local businesses, bus stations and so on. They recommend routes and what to see on the line, along with a rough guide to service frequency and where to plan your journey. There not just 59 pages of tables, which whilst be functional, offer no insight in to why you'd want to get the train.