Marston Vale line suspension over - FULL services start running 19/02/24

[tomuk]

Not that anyone is necessarily implying otherwise, but as this debate seems to be going in this direction...

The idea that transportation policy should be primarily based around exchequer balances is truly terrible. Public services exist to do things which are a public good, and that costs money in the service but pays back in a more livable and functional society.

But even for a service that is providing a public good there is a question of value for money and priority of resources within the public purse.

What was the average age of the 150s when they underwent their last fleet refurbishment?

Some 150s are having C6/corrosion repairs right now

 

[Wyrleybart]

What was the average age of the 150s when they underwent their last fleet refurbishment?

Not sure about the Northern 150/1s but it seems the majority of ex "Western Region" 150/2s have had pretty major surgery with lots of new steel going into the undersides, floors etc - in the last five or six years.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Wasn't the main issue to do with cooling and employing a cooling package that was perfectly adequate while up front with a permanent breeze, but sorely inadequate hidden under the chassis?

I think it was but that was after one half of 230001 decided to spontanously ignite.

 

[josh-j]

But even for a service that is providing a public good there is a question of value for money and priority of resources within the public purse.

Certainly, I'm just wary of simplistic measures like expenditure vs travellers served, because they don't take into account society as a whole. For example, you could argue that a small village in the middle of nowhere doesn't justify a road let alone public transport, using the same argument: "the motorways serve way more people per unit cost, this B road only sees cars from those few people, so we should focus expenditure on the motorways and cease maintenance of small roads".

But of course we would never say that because it would leave people trapped and isolated. The same applies to the removal of public transport links, even if it is not quite so obvious. The nature of public transport puts it in a similar position to post and internet services, in that a lot of money has to be spent to give people in remote areas a service which would be difficult to justify commercially but which serves a benefit to society as a whole in connecting people.

 

[zwk500]

Certainly, I'm just wary of simplistic measures like expenditure vs travellers served, because they don't take into account society as a whole. For example, you could argue that a small village in the middle of nowhere doesn't justify a road let alone public transport, using the same argument: "the motorways serve way more people per unit cost, this B road only sees cars from those few people, so we should focus expenditure on the motorways and cease maintenance of small roads".

Roads facilitate emergency access, is the key difference.

But of course we would never say that because it would leave people trapped and isolated. The same applies to the removal of public transport links, even if it is not quite so obvious. The nature of public transport puts it in a similar position to post and internet services, in that a lot of money has to be spent to give people in remote areas a service which would be difficult to justify commercially but which serves a benefit to society as a whole in connecting people.

Internet has quite low ongoing costs after installation though. The comparison with the postal service is a good one though - in the age of internet and e-mail connectivity, how many places really need a very costly and labour intensive postal service 6 days a week?

 

[josh-j]

Roads facilitate emergency access, is the key difference.

Internet has quite low ongoing costs after installation though. The comparison with the postal service is a good one though - in the age of internet and e-mail connectivity, how many places really need a very costly and labour intensive postal service 6 days a week?

Emergency provision doesn't need public roads, let people build their own roads and maintain them themselves. Private roads already exist. (I'm joking!)

But nobody makes this argument. I think the more fundamental point is that we should not, as a country, have difficulty in affording to run services on a line that already exists. The only reason all this budgeting is mandated is political unwillingness to stop extremely rich people get even richer while everything else becomes gradually more run down.

Anyway I don't live near the Marston Vale line but if I did and people wanted to close it, I'd be very concerned that I would be left with wholly inadequate public transport.

 

[zwk500]

I think the more fundamental point is that we should not, as a country, have difficulty in affording to run services on a line that already exists.

There were some very questionable decisions made almost 20 years ago that are now coming back to bite the railway (under a Labour government, I would point out).

The only reason all this budgeting is mandated is political unwillingness to stop extremely rich people get even richer while everything else becomes gradually more run down.

Broad agree. But we should ignore the point that there isn't a completely unlimited amount of government spending, and the overall numbers do have to work within the macroeconomic structures of the day.

Anyway I don't live near the Marston Vale line but if I did and people wanted to close it, I'd be very concerned that I would be left with wholly inadequate public transport.

Nobody's proposing to close it. The problem is that investment to allow a basic service (by extending a handful of platforms by 5-10m) was delayed because a Bigger project might be completely replacing the stations anyway. As an interim measure, a specific rolling stock solution was attempted but the provider has gone bust, which is not within the rail industry's control and could not necessarily have been predicted.
The issue at hand is about the appropriateness of the response to the immediate problem of having no trains capable of operating the line. It's compounded by earlier infrastructure failures and the difficulty of getting the original trains into service.

 

[josh-j]

The issue at hand is about the appropriateness of the response to the immediate problem of having no trains capable of operating the line. It's compounded by earlier infrastructure failures and the difficulty of getting the original trains into service.

Agree completely. At least there is a plan I suppose, however slow!

 

[Silverlinky]

150137, 138 and 141 are the units scheduled to move from Northern to LNR.

 

[LOL The Irony]

150137, 138 and 141 are the units scheduled to move from Northern to LNR.

Are they units that received the FNW refurb in the early 00's?

 

[170UTD]

150137, 138 and 141 are the units scheduled to move from Northern to LNR.

It's 150139 instead of 138 now according to the website

 

[warwickshire]

Are they units that received the FNW refurb in the early 00's?

Yes.

 

[_toommm_]

Is there any reasoning as to why those units have been chosen specifically? Is it a case of get rid of the worst or something different please?

 

[diligentdave]

Is there any reasoning as to why those units have been chosen specifically? Is it a case of get rid of the worst or something different please?

No Heavy Maintenance due on them (C4, C6 etc.) good size wheels, good mileage engines and gearbox meaning they won't require renewing (other than failure) during their sub-lease.

 

[_toommm_]

No Heavy Maintenance due on them (C4, C6 etc.) good size wheels, good mileage engines and gearbox meaning they won't require renewing (other than failure) during their sub-lease.

Very interesting, thanks Dave

(Although the enthusiast part of me would have loved for them to get back the ones they originally had - was it 105/107/109?)

 

[AJDesiro]

LNR have posted their latest monthly update, which states that they'll be delivered to WMT in July, and will have a variant of full LNR livery applied.

Marston Vale Line: Hourly timetable has now resumed

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

I must say, the livery does look better than I thought it would on the 150s.

 

[Intercity110]

LNR have posted their latest monthly update, which states that they'll be delivered to WMT in July, and will have a variant of full LNR livery applied.

Marston Vale Line: Hourly timetable has now resumed

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

I must say, the livery does look better than I thought it would on the 150s.

that looks surprisingly good! i may have to visit Bletchley again.

 

[Techniquest]

Based solely on the image in the linked post, I'lll agree. LNWR livery should look good on the 150s

Very interesting, thanks Dave

(Although the enthusiast part of me would have loved for them to get back the ones they originally had - was it 105/107/109?)

They were the last 3 before they got shipped off, correct

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So the 150s are moving permanently? I'd assumed it was a loan.

Something quite interesting is these 150s have Chapman seating, unlike London Midland's last three with Ashbournes. I wonder if they'll get an interior refresh. They've not long had one from Northern, but in the wrong colour scheme of course.

 

[DarloRich]

Great they are being painted nicely. As one of the plebs wanting to use the bloody service can you not just stick some stickers on and get the things running ASAP?

FFS - priorities here lads! July to "Autumn" to get service running.

 

[zwk500]

So the 150s are moving permanently? I'd assumed it was a loan.

Presumably this will now be the solution until EWR upgrade comes in.

 

[DarloRich]

Presumably this will now be the solution until EWR upgrade comes in.

unclear - however assume this to be the case

 

[778]

Presumably this will now be the solution until EWR upgrade comes in.

Could these units outlive all the other 150s on the network, and be the last of the class to be withdrawn?

 

[Bantamzen]

Great they are being painted nicely. As one of the plebs wanting to use the bloody service can you not just stick some stickers on and get the things running ASAP?

FFS - priorities here lads! July to "Autumn" to get service running.

Come on, you know the score. If they are not correctly branded for the TOC, scuffles will break out on these forums about it. Ensuring that RUK members are suitably happy with the vinyls, seats and window alignments is waaaayyy more important than getting them on the tracks and carrying punters around.....

<sarcasm /off>

 

[Neptune]

Come on, you know the score. If they are not correctly branded for the TOC, scuffles will break out on these forums about it. Ensuring that RUK members are suitably happy with the vinyls, seats and window alignments is waaaayyy more important than getting them on the tracks and carrying punters around.....

<sarcasm /off>

Don’t forget that if the unit is in Northern colours people get confused, think it’s a Northern service and don’t board the train (according to some on here).

 

[m79900]

Could these units outlive all the other 150s on the network, and be the last of the class to be withdrawn?

I wouldn't be at all surprised!

Don’t forget that if the unit is in Northern colours people get confused, think it’s a Northern service and don’t board the train (according to some on here).

I think if it LNWR branding, it'd be fine. They'd just be happy to see an actual train turn up!

 

[Bantamzen]

Don’t forget that if the unit is in Northern colours people get confused, think it’s a Northern service and don’t board the train (according to some on here).

Well yes indeed....

"Oh look dear, the train for Bletchley is pulling in."

"Oh wait, I'm confused by the colours of it, best wait for the next one...."

 

[Neptune]

I think if it LNWR branding, it'd be fine. They'd just be happy to see an actual train turn up!

Seriously? The people of Wales are coping just fine with 2 150’s with full Northern branding. What makes people of the Marston Vale less able in your opinion?

Well yes indeed....

"Oh look dear, the train for Bletchley is pulling in."

"Oh wait, I'm confused by the colours of it, best wait for the next one...."

Case in point just proved.

 

[richa2002]

This is all totally a moot point. It's obviously not branding that will stop the units coming into service but crew familiarisation.

 

[m79900]

This is all totally a moot point. It's obviously not branding that will stop the units coming into service but crew familiarisation.

Yes, and since it takes a while to train the crew, they may as well whack some LNW vinyls on in the meantime.