HST power car question.

[yh00157]

hello. I am a railroad fanatic living in Korea.

While studying mechanics in high school and junior college, I also watch railroad cars.

I am writing to ask questions.


1. HST power car engine question.

I'm looking at Wikipedia and I have a question.

I replaced the old Paxman Valenta engine in the mid 2000's and would like to know why.

Are Paxman Valenta engines discontinued?

For reference, it was confirmed that the VP185 engine was developed before British Rail privatization.

2. Fleet Details Questions.

43185 In the case of a power car, I couldn't find it even if I searched on Google.

I would like to know if this vehicle is a preserved locomotive.

I looked at Wikipedia, but there are so many nonsense, I want to know exactly.

43090 has been changed to 43290 and is running, but Wikipedia has not been modified, so it is not reliable.


Translated from Korean to English with Google Translate. There may be grammar mistakes, so please forgive me.

Also, since I am a Korean, I ask for your understanding as there are many things I do not know about British Railways.

 

[pdeaves]

According to https://www.flickr.com/photos/96915808@N03/51283949628/ 43185 is a spares donor for other preserved power cars. Other people may be able to help more.

 

[driver9000]

The Valenta engines were replaced with more efficient and reliable MTU power units. 43290 being one of them. Some power cars were renumbered when they were fitted with new engines but GWR didn't renumber their power cars. I believe the Valenta still has a use in ships.

43185 was stripped for parts at Haymarket to keep the ScotRail power cars running. Apart from it wearing Intercity livery there was nothing special about it.

 

[yh00157]

The Valenta engines were replaced with more efficient and reliable MTU power units. 43290 being one of them. Some power cars were renumbered when they were fitted with new engines but GWR didn't renumber their power cars. I believe the Valenta still has a use in ships.

43185 was stripped for parts at Haymarket to keep the ScotRail power cars running. Apart from it wearing Intercity livery there was nothing special about it.

43185 is not an officially preserved vehicle.

There is some nonsense on Wikipedia. Attached a screenshot.

 

[driver9000]

43185 is not an officially preserved vehicle.

There is some nonsense on Wikipedia. Attached a screenshot.

Not that I'm aware of. It was removed from Haymarket on 27 August 2021 and taken to Brodies Engineering works at Kilmarnock.

 

[Bryson]

By the early 2000's the HST's were already 25+ years old.

The operators were all looking at life extension for these trains and replacement of the worn out engines was a key part of the extension projects.

Midland Mainline fitted the VP185 - which had been developed as a successor to the Valenta. It has lower fuel consumption and better emissions.

All other operators chose the MTU V16 4000 engine, with the same advantages.

An other advantage of the new engines was reduced noise. The Valenta was famous for it's excessive noise when pulling away from the platforms, producing a high pitched scream.

 

[fgwrich]

By the early 2000's the HST's were already 25+ years old.

The operators were all looking at life extension for these trains and replacement of the worn out engines was a key part of the extension projects.

Midland Mainline fitted the VP185 - which had been developed as a successor to the Valenta. It has lower fuel consumption and better emissions.

All other operators chose the MTU V16 4000 engine, with the same advantages.

An other advantage of the new engines was reduced noise. The Valenta was famous for it's excessive noise when pulling away from the platforms, producing a high pitched scream.

It was actually the Turbo that made the screaming noise. But the reality of it is as that the Valenta’s were old, they were often quite leaky (be it both coolant and oil) and were considerably tired towards the end. So a more environmentally conscious, more reliable replacement was on the cards and somewhat well overdue.

 

[43096]

According to https://www.flickr.com/photos/96915808@N03/51283949628/ 43185 is a spares donor for other preserved power cars. Other people may be able to help more.

I’ve no idea where you’ve got the idea 43185 is a donor for preserved power cars?

 

[pdeaves]

I’ve no idea where you’ve got the idea 43185 is a donor for preserved power cars?

'Cos I mis-read that and several other things and muddled them together in the reply. Sorry.

 

[XAM2175]

43185 In the case of a power car, I couldn't find it even if I searched on Google.

I would like to know if this vehicle is a preserved locomotive.

I looked at Wikipedia, but there are so many nonsense, I want to know exactly.

43185 is not an officially preserved vehicle.

There is some nonsense on Wikipedia. Attached a screenshot.

This is the source listed by Wikipedia for that entry, from page 12 of the April 2023 edition of Rail Express:

(in table "Class 43 Operators, March 6, 2023" 43185 is listed in the column "preserved/private use")

I see that the 125 Group fleet list from the 4th of this month lists it as owned by Brodies Leasing with the status/location note "Kilmarnock (spares donor)". Unless this is something that has changed since March, you would have to ask Richard Clinnick (or whoever does his research for him) why it's ended up in "preserved/private use" - perhaps because he only uses "stored" for intact vehicles? For myself I certainly wouldn't choose to lump spares donors in with preserved examples.

43090 has been changed to 43290 and is running, but Wikipedia has not been modified, so it is not reliable.

It was correct in the main list, just not the summary, and has been fixed now. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[yh00157]

This is the source listed by Wikipedia for that entry, from page 12 of the April 2023 edition of Rail Express:
View attachment 137771
(in table "Class 43 Operators, March 6, 2023" 43185 is listed in the column "preserved/private use")

I see that the 125 Group fleet list from the 4th of this month lists it as owned by Brodies Leasing with the status/location note "Kilmarnock (spares donor)". Unless this is something that has changed since March, you would have to ask Richard Clinnick (or whoever does his research for him) why it's ended up in "preserved/private use" - perhaps because he only uses "stored" for intact vehicles? For myself I certainly wouldn't choose to lump spares donors in with preserved examples.


It was correct in the main list, just not the summary, and has been fixed now. Thanks for pointing it out.

Looking at Wikipedia, there are some nonsense.

43302, 43384 were originally renumbered to 43102, 43184.

I would like to know if 43423 and 43467 are locomotives operated by RailAdventure. I checked the picture that this car is currently being repaired.

Wikipedia has a lot of crappy content than I thought, so it's uncomfortable to look at.

 

[43096]

I would like to know if 43423 and 43467 are locomotives operated by RailAdventure. I checked the picture that this car is currently being repaired.

Both are owned by RailAdventure and are currently being prepared for return to service at Eastleigh.

 

[yh00157]

Both are owned by RailAdventure and are currently being prepared for return to service at Eastleigh.

All right. 43302 has been changed to 43102 and 43384 to 43184.

Wikipedia has 43302, 43384, but it needs to be corrected.

And 43300 Is this car a preservation vehicle? I'm asking because I want to know exactly.

 

[m79900]

And 43300 Is this car a preservation vehicle? I'm asking because I want to know exactly.

I read that it moved to a private site in Scotland last year, but I don't see why anyone would select it for preservation as it was crash damaged.

 

[45076]

I read that it moved to a private site in Scotland last year, but I don't see why anyone would select it for preservation as it was crash damaged.

I'm sure it was reported as being dumped at Reid Freight's yard in Stoke on trent with the 158/159 cars from the Salisbury incident.

 

[Wyrleybart]

All right. 43302 has been changed to 43102 and 43384 to 43184.

Wikipedia has 43302, 43384, but it needs to be corrected.

And 43300 Is this car a preservation vehicle? I'm asking because I want to know exactly.

It might have been clearer to list 43302 and 43384 as retro reverting to their original numbers even though they are only cosmetically restored to their original numbers of 43102 and 43184.

For the benefit of our Korean friend the ex Grand Central power cars were renumbered to the 434xx numbers whe nthey were fitted with MTUs and upgrades they received. So 43067 became 43467.

 

[43096]

It might have been clearer to list 43302 and 43384 as retro reverting to their original numbers even though they are only cosmetically restored to their original numbers of 43102 and 43184.

They are not just cosmetically restored to 43102/184: they have been officially renumbered back to those numbers on the national vehicle register.

The two ex-LNER power cars that were repainted into original blue/grey colours remain numbered 43206/312 on the system, though.

 

[43096]

I read that it moved to a private site in Scotland last year, but I don't see why anyone would select it for preservation as it was crash damaged.

Crash damaged, minus bogies and underframe equipment and internals thoroughly robbed for spares. Even if someone in preservation took it for spares, there's virtually nothing of use left on it even for that.

 

[m79900]

I'm sure it was reported as being dumped at Reid Freight's yard in Stoke on trent with the 158/159 cars from the Salisbury incident.

Possibly then, I haven't looked into it that deeply.

 

[fgwrich]

Crash damaged, minus bogies and underframe equipment and internals thoroughly robbed for spares. Even if someone in preservation took it for spares, there's virtually nothing of use left on it even for that.

Though cabs are starting to become available now. But I do agree - it'll never be coming back to life in its previous form and will likely be grounded for the rest of its life, ala 153 at Llanelli.

 

[yh00157]

I read that it moved to a private site in Scotland last year, but I don't see why anyone would select it for preservation as it was crash damaged.

okay. Wikipedia lists 43300 as preserved.

 

[D365]

okay. Wikipedia lists 43300 as preserved.

The word ”preserved” does not explain whether a locomotive will be restored, or if it will only be used as a source of spare parts.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The word ”preserved” does not explain whether a locomotive will be restored, or if it will only be used as a source of spare parts.

Perhaps the status of cannibalised should be used then ?

 

[trainswitheddy]

Sorry to disturb an older thread, but any news on this? Particularly with regard to 185 and 300